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Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






I ask this because Alpha Legion Rules give enemies a -1 Modifier to hit if they're outside 12"


Now, say something hits on a 6+ Naturally, does the -1 force it to be a 7+? Or does it stay a 6+?

(Armour saves can be 7+, What about WS/BS?)
   
Made in gb
Gargantuan Gargant





 commander dante wrote:
I ask this because Alpha Legion Rules give enemies a -1 Modifier to hit if they're outside 12"


Now, say something hits on a 6+ Naturally, does the -1 force it to be a 7+? Or does it stay a 6+?

(Armour saves can be 7+, What about WS/BS?)
No, you can't. This makes Orks very sad. There is a rule saying a 1 is always a fail. There is no such rule saying a 6 is always a success. If you've got something with -2 to hit, and are WS/BS 5+, you can't hit it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/12 19:51:48


Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy, "minimum" ranges don't work, Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll, the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit, the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously, Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields, Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12", Spore Mines have an infinite range, Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad, T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only), and T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle, Genestealer Cults can no longer move after ambushing, you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it, single use weapons MUST be fired the first time a model shoots if they are in range and LOS, if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit, the Agents of Vect stratagem can be used by ANY Drukhari army, not just one with a Kabal of the Black Heart detachment, a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight, Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything, Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers, and Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- 
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






 BaconCatBug wrote:
 commander dante wrote:
I ask this because Alpha Legion Rules give enemies a -1 Modifier to hit if they're outside 12"


Now, say something hits on a 6+ Naturally, does the -1 force it to be a 7+? Or does it stay a 6+?

(Armour saves can be 7+, What about WS/BS?)
No, you can't. This makes Orks very sad. There is a rule saying a 1 is always a fail. There is no such rule saying a 6 is always a success. If you've got something with -2 to hit, and are WS/BS 5+, you can't hit it.

So...
Alpha Legion with Mark Of Nurgle...

Ouch
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Central California

Are you asking if BS/WS can be made a 7+, or if you can force an opponent to need to rioll above a 6 to hit?
The answer if you meant the first question is that the -1 modifier is applied to the die roll, NOT the BS/WS stat. So in this case, you are not making the BS/WS 7+. It remains a 6+. Like armor saves of 7+ on a data sheet, GW could put out a unit with a 7+BS/WS...
Now if your question was can you make it impossible for a unit to hit another unit (as in your example) the answer is yes as explained here and above.
And as also mentioned above, it makes a lot of orc players very sad.

Edward Myst
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Made in au
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Brisbane, Australia

 commander dante wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 commander dante wrote:
I ask this because Alpha Legion Rules give enemies a -1 Modifier to hit if they're outside 12"


Now, say something hits on a 6+ Naturally, does the -1 force it to be a 7+? Or does it stay a 6+?

(Armour saves can be 7+, What about WS/BS?)
No, you can't. This makes Orks very sad. There is a rule saying a 1 is always a fail. There is no such rule saying a 6 is always a success. If you've got something with -2 to hit, and are WS/BS 5+, you can't hit it.

So...
Alpha Legion with Mark Of Nurgle...

Ouch

In matched play that'll only be a single unit at most though - you just have to hope the Psyker fails their psychic test (or get a psyker of your own if you have one in range to hopefully deny it).

Multiple thin coats are always better than one thick coat.
 
   
Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard




 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 commander dante wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 commander dante wrote:
I ask this because Alpha Legion Rules give enemies a -1 Modifier to hit if they're outside 12"


Now, say something hits on a 6+ Naturally, does the -1 force it to be a 7+? Or does it stay a 6+?

(Armour saves can be 7+, What about WS/BS?)
No, you can't. This makes Orks very sad. There is a rule saying a 1 is always a fail. There is no such rule saying a 6 is always a success. If you've got something with -2 to hit, and are WS/BS 5+, you can't hit it.

So...
Alpha Legion with Mark Of Nurgle...

Ouch

In matched play that'll only be a single unit at most though - you just have to hope the Psyker fails their psychic test (or get a psyker of your own if you have one in range to hopefully deny it).

Popping smoke on Dreadnoughts (sorry, 'Hellbrutes') will also do the trick.
   
Made in au
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Brisbane, Australia

Waaaghpower wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 commander dante wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 commander dante wrote:
I ask this because Alpha Legion Rules give enemies a -1 Modifier to hit if they're outside 12"


Now, say something hits on a 6+ Naturally, does the -1 force it to be a 7+? Or does it stay a 6+?

(Armour saves can be 7+, What about WS/BS?)
No, you can't. This makes Orks very sad. There is a rule saying a 1 is always a fail. There is no such rule saying a 6 is always a success. If you've got something with -2 to hit, and are WS/BS 5+, you can't hit it.

So...
Alpha Legion with Mark Of Nurgle...

Ouch

In matched play that'll only be a single unit at most though - you just have to hope the Psyker fails their psychic test (or get a psyker of your own if you have one in range to hopefully deny it).

Popping smoke on Dreadnoughts (sorry, 'Hellbrutes') will also do the trick.

Last I checked they didn't have Smoke Launchers.

Multiple thin coats are always better than one thick coat.
 
   
Made in gb
Gargantuan Gargant





 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Last I checked they didn't have Smoke Launchers.
True, but Spess Mahrine Dreadnoughts do, so Raven Guard Dreads can do this.

Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy, "minimum" ranges don't work, Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll, the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit, the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously, Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields, Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12", Spore Mines have an infinite range, Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad, T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only), and T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle, Genestealer Cults can no longer move after ambushing, you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it, single use weapons MUST be fired the first time a model shoots if they are in range and LOS, if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit, the Agents of Vect stratagem can be used by ANY Drukhari army, not just one with a Kabal of the Black Heart detachment, a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight, Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything, Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers, and Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- 
   
Made in au
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Brisbane, Australia

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Last I checked they didn't have Smoke Launchers.
True, but Spess Mahrine Dreadnoughts do, so Raven Guard Dreads can do this.

Only once per game though, which is even more unreliable than the Nurgle psychic power.

Not saying it's a good thing, just that at least it isn't all game long.

Multiple thin coats are always better than one thick coat.
 
   
 
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