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I know there is already a thread devoted to Space Marine Tactics, but I find that most of the thread is about list selection, unit comparison and math-hammer. It is about which units to use, not how to use them. I want to start a conversation about how to use models, not which models to use, so apologies for not joining the end of a 28+ page conversation, but I am certain I'll get lost in the mix.

I've not played much 8th Ed yet, but I like it a lot. I've done okay in the games I've played, but not great. I want to get into the tactics more than I have done in previous editions, by which I mean playing well, designing a coherent strategy with a balanced but not cheesy list, and then executing well with solid tactics. I want to use a marine list based around a battle company, and one of the units I want to use is Devastators, despite the fact lots of people will tell me they aren't optimal.

I've found that Devastators, even more so than in 7th, get quickly targetted by either fast moving units or deep-strikers. No surprise there, but they seem more vulnerable to it than in previous editions. Trouble is, I like me some plasma cannon devastators, and I don't want to give up on them. I assume other people have had similar problems? I have the following solutions...

1) First, and only a partial solution, is to give the sarge a combi-flamer. That will typically be about one overwatch wound against MEQs or more against lighter targets. It won't make a huge difference, but makes the job harder, and might make them try to charge from byeond 8" and thereby fail the charge.

2) A babysitting squad could be left nearby. This could be the other half of boltgun marines from the devastator squad, a tactical squad, an assault squad, or even a sternguard squad. The Tac squad has the benefit of being troops and helping fill out a brigade. An assault squad nearby might benefit from having other forces drawn towards them by the dev squad, or can later use jump packs to reposition when it needs to. A sternguard squad can operate at range too, whilst still being a decent combat squad, but they might just draw the charge themselves.

3) Split a ten-man squad (or take two five-man squads to get two combi-flamers as above) and put two plasma cannons in each. Less likely both can be charged at once, and when one falls back, the other can shoot the squad left behind.

4) Give up on devs, and put the cannons into tac squads. Much as I dislike the idea, I could put one plasma cannon in each tac squad. Now that you can split fire, this seems more reasonable.

Does anyone have any other ideas on how to effectively use plasma cannon devastators? Do people think the ideas above would work? Or not?

Before even thinking about the sarge you have basicly two options

castle or mobile

you can castle up with long range weapons (aka lascannons)
with a bunch of characters near by to buff them

alternatively they are not bad rolling up in a rhino or a drop pod with more shooty guns like grav cannons or multi meltas

personally i dont like putting them in 10man squads as by the time you split up into 2/2 heavy weapons teams, it might be easier to just do a 10man tactical squad with one heavy one special and leave the heavy on an objective and push the other unit up forward.

If you have points combi flamer sarge is good however.

Don't take plasma cannons

Really though, sadly plasma cannons are probably the worst dev weapon choice

As for how to use devs? Well it depends on army composition. You want your army to coordinate well. If you are taking devastators and then leaving them alone in a corner, you should ask if devastators fit in your army

Devastators are great that they can support a unit from anywhere on the battlefield if outfitted for it, but if they lack support, they're dead meat, and not operating as efficiently as you would want. You'll usually want a captain and lieutenant in buffing range, ideally with other ranges assets (like stalker intercessors). The chars with the units can mop up small spoiler assaults

stratigo wrote:
Don't take plasma cannons

Really though, sadly plasma cannons are probably the worst dev weapon choice

Yeah. :/
Despite how good Plasma is, the RoF is too erratic. The range bonus is nice if you have appropriate buffs nearby (a Captain, mainly) and if you get a good roll it can be pretty strong, but it's just not worth it when you can get cheaper Plasma elsewhere.

Waaaghpower wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Don't take plasma cannons

Really though, sadly plasma cannons are probably the worst dev weapon choice

Yeah. :/
Despite how good Plasma is, the RoF is too erratic. The range bonus is nice if you have appropriate buffs nearby (a Captain, mainly) and if you get a good roll it can be pretty strong, but it's just not worth it when you can get cheaper Plasma elsewhere.

Yeah, I have found Plasma Cannons to be a bit of a waste in Tactical Squads. I have found 2 five man squads with Combi-Plasma and Plasma Gun to be way more effective.

I run Missile Launchers on my Devastators, although they are slightly less effective than Lascannons, the decent horde clearing ability that 4 guys firing the Frag option has been excellent in a pinch. And, people are way less afraid of Missile Launchers than Lascannons, they get targeted less when I use them.

I feel that Devastators are taken purely for the heavy weapons, and so I never spend points to equip the Sarge (he's usually using his Signum anyways). I prefer Lascannons, although Missile Launchers, as stated by the poster above, are certainly solid. Plasma is definitely the weakest option, as it is very swingy and can kill your own guys if you overcharge it, which you should. If you do insist on using them, keep a Captain nearby to reroll those pesky 1's. To me, if you want Plasma Devs just take Hellblasters instead; the range is almost as good and their fire rate is constant.

I play Dark Angels, and my current list style involves a lot of things staying back and shooting, with Azrael nearby to give rerolls to hit and a Primaris Lieutenant to reroll 1's to wound. Lascannon Devs are my go-to guys, along with Dreadnoughts, which make a decent charge deterrent with those DCW's. Against certain list types, bubble wrap is a must, as you don't want your Devs getting stuck in combat even if they take no damage (since they then have to fall back and forfeit their shooting). Put them on an upper level in ruins to help prevent charging and give them better LOS on their targets.

Certain support characters besides the obvious ones like Captains can be hilarious when combined with Devastators. Apothecaries can revive guys that bite the sand, letting them keep on killing. A Company Ancient (or Primaris Ancient) lets them get a 50-50 chance to get off a parting shot before they die, which can be clutch in some situations. The two of those together can make a very annoying and durable firebase, especially if they are providing their benefits to multiple squads.

I have tended to leave my Devs a bit too isolated, I think. Maybe not on deployment, but as the game progresses they've become quickly vulnerable. I probably need to think about that a lot more. I'm thematically attached to the plasma, but that won't be my only option. I often use a fire-support dreadnought too, and keeping that a bit closer might help to help deal with punier fast attack squads closing in.

stratigo wrote:
Don't take plasma cannons

Really though, sadly plasma cannons are probably the worst dev weapon choice

As for how to use devs? Well it depends on army composition. You want your army to coordinate well. If you are taking devastators and then leaving them alone in a corner, you should ask if devastators fit in your army

Devastators are great that they can support a unit from anywhere on the battlefield if outfitted for it, but if they lack support, they're dead meat, and not operating as efficiently as you would want. You'll usually want a captain and lieutenant in buffing range, ideally with other ranges assets (like stalker intercessors). The chars with the units can mop up small spoiler assaults

A plasma cannon is one of the best options for a Dev squad. The signium means you can overcharge to your hearts content.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I feel that Devastators are taken purely for the heavy weapons, and so I never spend points to equip the Sarge (he's usually using his Signum anyways).

(edited to focus on this point)

Unless I’m missing it, the rule that he can buff or shoot is gone. The sarge can give out his bonus and tap out a few rounds with his bolter at the same time

With the lowering in cost of basic marines and the ability to split fire, it might be worth adding in the ablative meatshields. to fill out the squad. It will make the squad less point efficient, but a little more durable.

Screening units are important. As marine player, we were often the ones being screened against in the past, due to drop pods. But now that everyone has accurate 1st turn deep striking, we need to give it some thought. I’m not saying going full castle/bubble wrap, but just sticking a unit off to the side radiating it’s 9” bubble of keep-away will give you space and time to react. Scouts, who can deploy outside the normal zone, seems almost required for this.

Cover now boosts the armor save, so find a nice spot of it with clear LoS. Not that moving is as bad as it used to be, but let’s not take that -1 unless we have to.

If you can re-roll hits of 1s plasma cannons are a very solid option, and cheaper than missile launchers. With my SW sometimes I use them but long fangs can re-roll ones thanks to a special rule they have, they don't need buffing characters to do so. That's why I would probably not take plasma cannons for regular SM.

I've had some success with the following:

Deepstriking grav cannon devs with Lias Issodon.

Missile devs in cover, next to an ancient with the SM relic standard.

Buying a rhino for my devs to hide in the first turn. After that the rhino just blocks and assaults things.

Using scouts to make deepstriking near my devastators inpossible.

Replacing devs with las preds.

Being IFs with their warlord trait to make them more durable.

Being ravenguard for their chapter tactic to make them more durable

Keeping some form of rerolls around. All hits, 1s to hit, and 1s to wound, in order of effectiveness.

The warlord trait that makes 6s to wound +1 AP is helpful as well.

Las Devs have a very defined role if you choose to take them.

Missile Devs are solid and flexible.

You can also Pod/DS in a group of Grav Cannon ones, and wipe a heavily armored MSU off the board.

I don't think using a drop pod to get devs into range is efficient enough given the price of a drop pod. If drop pods did something more than transport a unit, act as a terrain feature and fire a stormbolter at things then they could be worth their points, as is they add too much of a tax to the devastators to make the combo worthwhile. You would have to hit something expensive with really low durability in order to get enough value.

Bunkers!

 BaconCatBug wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Don't take plasma cannons

Really though, sadly plasma cannons are probably the worst dev weapon choice

As for how to use devs? Well it depends on army composition. You want your army to coordinate well. If you are taking devastators and then leaving them alone in a corner, you should ask if devastators fit in your army

Devastators are great that they can support a unit from anywhere on the battlefield if outfitted for it, but if they lack support, they're dead meat, and not operating as efficiently as you would want. You'll usually want a captain and lieutenant in buffing range, ideally with other ranges assets (like stalker intercessors). The chars with the units can mop up small spoiler assaults

A plasma cannon is one of the best options for a Dev squad. The signium means you can overcharge to your hearts content.

You can make the case for one. ANy more than that is going to kill those devs

I typically run 2 Devastator squads in all of my lists. I play either Raptors or Crimson Fists.

My most common load-out is 2 squads with 2 Lascannons, 1 Missile Launcher, and 1 Plasma Cannon. If I had the models I would probably run a third Lascannon rather than the Missile Launcher, though potentially being able to use the Flak Missile Stratagem is nice. If I am running Lias then I take 2 squads with 2 Multi-meltas and 2 Grav-cannons instead. This loadout if points permit I also take a Combi-melta on the Sergeant since the Signum does not require him to skip shooting anymore.

I always run 10 man units, and then if I need to shave points I will start with a couple bodies from each if necessary. The ablative wounds, plus me usually having the Raven Guard tactic to keep me safer dissuades people from shooting me. Me helpfully reminding them that I have 6 ablative wounds at a 2+ save that you get -1 to hit helps this as well.

I rather like the idea of Missile Launchers if you are playing smaller point games, such as 500 or 1k. The flexibility shines there, but in 2000 and up I find it better to specialize more. Plasma Cannons I take one per squad because no risk Super charging makes them on average more damaging than any other weapon except against single wound infantry or Land Raiders/Knights (This is a rough generalization though I have math to back up the claim if necessary). The only other real use I see for them is to put 2 5 man squads with all Melta in a Drop Pod. Or really the same could be said for Grav. It is surprisingly still good this edition. The latter two options are expensive and with it being so easy to screen drops for a lot of armies I don't go this route... but it could work.