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With no word from Forge World on when or if they're going to produce Zone Mortalis rules for 8th I've decided to take a stab at it.

The official ZM rules are a mess of special cases and exceptions. I've tried to avoid this as much as possible.

Thoughts?


Army Selection

Models without bases may not be included in your army.

Models with bases larger than 80mm round, larger than 70x25mm 'pill' shape or larger than 105x70mm oval may not be included in your army. (be aware that models on the largest bases may be highly limited in their movement)

Models with the Airborne special rule may not be included in your army unless they also have the hover-mode rule in which case they must remain in hover mode throughout the game.


Doors

Doors have four states - open, closed, locked (a locked door is also closed), destroyed (a destroyed door is also open).

A door which is not destroyed or locked may be opened or closed in the movement phase by a model that ends it's movement within 1" of the door frame. If a door is opened remove the door but not the door frame from the board. If a door is closed replace the door.

A closed door may be destroyed by shooting or melee attacks. Doors have T8 W3 Sv 3+ (when attacking a door your opponent will roll the saves). If a door is destroyed remove the door but not the door frame from the board.
Do not roll to hit against the door in melee combat, all attacks hit automatically. Roll to wound and save as normal.
When attacking a door in melee the unit may disengage simply by moving away from the door, falling back is not required.


Measuring / Targetting

Measurements may not be made that cross a wall or closed door. If a measurement between two units/models/etc. must cross a wall or closed door then it will be considered to be out of range. (Note, this means that a model with intervening walls or doors is ignored when determining the closest model/unit)

Weapons, special rules and psychic powers that target enemy units always require LoS regardless of special rules to the contrary.


Reinforcements

Models that are deployed during a turn must roll a D6 for each model after they have been deployed. On a roll of a 5+ the model is slain.
Special rules permitting units to be deployed off-table and later set up on the table mid-turn may not be utilized. The only exception to this is the Deep Strike Stratagem below.


Movement

Models may not move through a gap smaller than their base with one exception - models on 32mm bases may move through a single-wide doorway. If a model on an oval base must rotate to fit into a gap there must be room for it to rotate.

For references, these gaps are:
A 2-tile wide corridor is 95mm and a 2-tile wide doorway is 70mm wide
A 1-tile wide corridor is 47mm wide and a 1-tile wide doorway is 25mm wide (32mm base models are permitted to pass through)

Walls and closed doors may not be climbed, moved over or moved through under any circumstances regardless of special rules to the contrary.

For any unit with a model that moves further than 6" in a phase roll a D6.
On a roll of a 6+ the unit takes D3 mortal wounds.
If any model in the unit moved more than 9" then add +1 to the roll. If any model in the unit moved more than 12 then add an additional +1 (for a total of +2) to the roll.


Shooting

Shooting weapons with a minimum range may not be used.

When a unit makes a shooting attack with a ranged weapon that produces a random number of attacks they may choose to re-roll the number of shots. The second result is final. If the weapon uses multiple dice to determine the number of shots then the player may choose to reroll all or none of them.


Melee

Overwatch shooting that does not hit automatically hits on a 4+ or the models standard BS, whichever is worse, regardless of any special rules to the contrary. Weapons which automatically hit continue to do so.

Units that deploy outside their deployment zone must be deployed out of LoS of any enemy models and may not be deployed in the enemy deployment zone.


Stratagems

The stratagems below may be used in Zone Mortalis Games.

Command Overide - 2 CPs
This stratagem is used after deployment zones are decided but before any models are deployed. If both players wish to use this stratagem then roll off to determine who uses it first. This stratagem may only be used once.
Nominate D3+1 doors and place a counter on them to indicate that they are locked.

Deep Strike - 3 CPs
This stratagem is used during the deployment phase. Nominate a single unit that has not yet been deployed which consists of ten or less models with no more than 2 wounds each. This unit gains the following special rule:
Teleport Strike: During deployment,you can setup this unit in a teleportarium chamber instead of placing them on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases this unit can teleport into battle–set them up any where on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.

The Reinforcements rule confuses me. Why is it there?

There's a whole pile of extra Zone Mortalis stratagems that may be worth looking into (can't remember where, but I'm looking), and the Boarding Assault missions in Badab War 1 as well.

I'm not sure about the base size/models without bases restriction, since you'd be permitting Leviathan Dreadnaughts and banning Bikes; a wound count cap (10 or 12) might be a better way to cap the size of models in a force. And I'm with JNA on the Reinforcements rule; what's it supposed to accomplish? If you're trying to punish Deep Strikers (which makes some sense) I'd honestly suggest replicating the original Built Up Area rule (edited for 8th by saying "models cannot be deployed outside of your deployment zone under any circumstances") rather than doing it that way, possibly allowing some exception for teleport homers. Or giving people as a stratagem the ability to teleport into some point further in on the board.

 JNAProductions wrote:
The Reinforcements rule confuses me. Why is it there?

Deep striking is really powerful in zone mortalis. It used to be really dangerous to balance this out (teleporting into the interior of an enemy ship often leads to casualties). With current rules there is zero risk. I don't want to remove it as an option but I do want to retain the risk.

Used to be that walls and bulkheads would cause a mishap with - 1 (so 1/3 of destroying the unit and 1/6 of your opponent placing it which effectively meant that it would take no part in the game - that's a 50% chance of losing the unit after a (fairly common) bad scatter.

With the ability now to deep strike safely even into very tight spaces it has to have a fairly harsh counter balance or it will dominate the game.

Is this too harsh?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
There's a whole pile of extra Zone Mortalis stratagems that may be worth looking into (can't remember where, but I'm looking), and the Boarding Assault missions in Badab War 1 as well.

They're in the HH books. I've got all of those. Most were pretty pointless (a few were blatantly more powerful than the rest). I am going to work on those but door locking was the only one I felt was immediately needed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

I'm not sure about the base size/models without bases restriction, since you'd be permitting Leviathan Dreadnaughts and banning Bikes; a wound count cap (10 or 12) might be a better way to cap the size of models in a force.

Bikes were supposed to be included but you're right, they are neither round nor oval. I've fixed that.

A leviathan is a real gamble. There can be missions where it's trapped in its deployment zone. Centurions can be severely hampered. Even terminators often can't get to the objective because of a doorway in the wrong place. Anything on a base larger than 32mm is severely disadvantaged. Unless, of course, it has a way of deploying in the place that it needs to go...

Well, what about my Callidus assassin? Why should she face a 1/3 chance of death for Infiltrating?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Well, what about my Callidus assassin? Why should she face a 1/3 chance of death for Infiltrating?

Same reason. Do you have a game balance argument rather than a fluff argument?

At least you can take an Assassin now, it was impossible in the previous edition.

Frankly, I'm concerned that it's not harsh enough. With half the squad making it and being positioned anywhere it still could well be too good.

Why is it OP to Deep Strike?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why is it OP to Deep Strike?

You've never played Zone Mortalis, right?

Because there is rarely a direct path to the objectives (quite apart from the enemy being in the way) it is always a scramble to get your models where they need to go.

Deep Strike bypasses this and it does it mid game when your opponent is already spread out and will find it very difficult to respond (unlike deployment phase infiltrators). Consider how much more difficult it is to bring firepower to bear on a zone mortalis board.

Also, larger more powerful models are hampered as to where they can go. Being able to simply drop them directly into places that they would never be able to get to with the limited amount of movement available in a 5-7 turn game negates this completely as well.

The games I've played so far this edition with virtually no modification have been dominated by grey knight terminators and similar.

I've played a fair amount of ZM so will throw in my opinion.

Overall nicely done, covered alot of the main things really well :-) I've a few suggestions and thoughts on them.

On the reserve deployment point - I agree that standard deepstriking would be very imbalanced in ZM under 8th rules, especially with the rule about not measuring through walls (which I very much like). I'm not sure what the best way of handling it is through :/
I think your 5+ and dead rule nicely represents the risk from the previous ruleset but this new edition tends to steer away from rules that actively punish units and annoy players like that.
Perhaps making it a stratagem, Locator beacon 2CP: place a single unit into tactical reserve. Make it so you usually can't use tactical reserves. Its still powerful but you can only really do it once and it will cost you.
You could make it so coming on from tactical reserves ignores the rule about measuring through walls which would greatly reduce the areas you could deploy in or have them only depoy in your own table half or deployment area.
If you wanted to stckl with the risk of deepstriking rule I'd maybe change it so it is the same as being in an destroyed transport, roll dice equal to the number of models deployed, on a 6 (or 5+ in this case) a model is slain. This way it means your not rolling on a model by model basis and the player gets to chose which is removed which is far less annoying.

Perhaps a rule to improve blast and template weapons like there used to be, something like:
Confined Space Ranged weapons that roll a random number of attacks roll twice and chose the highest result. If this is too powerful then change it to "may re-roll the result".

The rule which is like dangerous terrain seems a little off for the new edition, generally you'll roll alot of dice for little effect, I agree that superfast movement is too powerful in ZM, maybe something like every inch of movement a model makes over 6" cost two inches of its movement value. May be a little wordy but in effect it would reduce higher movement units down in speed incrementally. A 12" jumppack unit would move 9" and 14" beast/bike unit would move 10" and a 8" dread would move 7".

Overwatch on a 4+ maybe a little too good on things like ork boys (who normally hit on a 5+) Perhaps change it to something like "4+ or your BS whichever is worse", saying that ork boys won't be able to get many guns in LOS so its not likely a problem especially now that you can charge from out of LOS.

Perhaps reduce the wounds on the smaller doors to W4.

The basing and model size is a issue that is hard to quantify, my playgroup just uses common sense and come to common agreement about which models can fit through where. I understand bases it the easiest thing to measure but some models come on disproportionate sizes bases. Not sure what the answer is for a proper rule document :/

I ambled on a bit there ;-)

Some good suggestions there, thank you.

Making deep strike a 3CP stratagem would limit it to a single unit (difficult to get 6CP in 1K points). That's a good compromise and avoids any special cases. I've edited the rules above.


Boosting blast and flamer weapons is a tricky one. That is something that I've been thinking about but they are no longer mechanically different from lots of other multi-shot weapons. I'm not sure that boosting all multi-shot weapons is desirable and I definitely don't want to start listing weapon names.

I guess we could capture most flamer-type weapons by specifying auto-hit, multi-shot weapons - does that buff any that aren't appropriate? Do they need buffing? (as fluffy as that is) The weapons that were good in ZM with the buffs (heavy flamers, plasma cannons, etc.) are still good.


Good point on the overwatch being better than BS for some things. Edited.


Doors - what are your thoughts behind making the smaller doors weaker? Should they be easier to get through because they are a filter that doesn't permit a bunch of units to pass even when they're open?

Doors used to be AV13 with 1HP making them immune to most weapons and basically demanding meltaguns for any kind of reliability.
I am considering going W4 Sv2+ on doors (both sizes).

3CP for the deepstrike stratagem seems fair given how powerful it is in zone mortalis. Perhaps restrict it to only units that can usually be deployed off table or allow those units to still do so but only arrive in your deployment zone? This way your not taking the ability away from units completely and players will still feel they are getting something for the points that unit inherently pays for the ability on their datasheet.

I've been thinking about any random shot weapons that didn't use to be blasts and the only ones I can think of were on vehicles or massive models (exorcist, stormsurge) so boosting multishot weapons would really only cover blast weapons. I think some boost would be good as it thematically fits with models being cramped together in the tight confines of the ZM. Adding rules to re-enforce fluff helps by encouraging people to bring armies that fit the theme. The re-roll seems a better fit that the roll twice and choose, being simpler and less powerful.

I think the smaller doors should be a little weaker than the larger, just seems right as wounds seems to be at least partially based on model size. I like the 2+ save, makes them better against small arms fire. I'd go with either 3/4, 4/5 or maybe 3/5 on the wounds for the small/big doors.

What do you think about the reduced movement? My solution isn't very well worded (perhaps a table would be better) but I think reducing movement is better than making it more risky both in reducing dice rolled and balancing the game, People will just move their maximum and take the very minor damage that could be inflicted. Perhaps change it to on a 6 a unit takes D3 mortal wounds when moving more than 6". Takes out rolling per model but adds a real threat. I prefer the reducing large movement values but am not sure how to easily and fairly implement it.

I'll mathhammer some options on the doors and post the results up later.

The reduced movement is a difficult one. There needs to be something to restrain bikes, etc. and I agree that the equivalent of 7th dangerous terrain doesn't cut it.

What about a single roll for a unit? If a unit moves more than 6" in a phase then on a D6 roll of 6 they take D3 mortal wounds. If a unit moves more than 9" in a phase then on a D6 roll of a 5+ they take D3 mortal wounds.


Re weapons, I think you're right. Edited.

That rule does nicely fix the higher movement units, adds some serious risk reward to balance the huge benefit of moving really fast. You could add another level of moving more than 12" on a 4+ take D3 mortal wounds. This would cover jetbikes and winged creatures. This rules helps re-enforce the fluff of having to move cautiously and that it is a very dangerous environment.

I still think that allowing any unit to gain deepstrike could be an issue, I haven't found out what that issue is as yet but there may be certain units that can use it to break the game.

 WisdomLS wrote:
That rule does nicely fix the higher movement units, adds some serious risk reward to balance the huge benefit of moving really fast. You could add another level of moving more than 12" on a 4+ take D3 mortal wounds. This would cover jetbikes and winged creatures. This rules helps re-enforce the fluff of having to move cautiously and that it is a very dangerous environment.

I still think that allowing any unit to gain deepstrike could be an issue, I haven't found out what that issue is as yet but there may be certain units that can use it to break the game.

I like the third movement tier, I'll add that once I'm at a desktop.

I completely agree about the any unit deepstrike which is why I limited the number of wounds (no big stuff) and the number of models (no giant squads of conscripts or Boyz). Still have this nagging feeling that it should be more restricted. On the other hand access to deep strike and especially to fluffed as teleportation deepstrike is highly variable and I'm not keen on the haves/have nots it creates.

It still doesn't make sense that you could technically use your deep strike strat to drop jump packs from low orbit into the inside of a ship some how.

if anything you should say only models with the teleporium rule (forget what its called exactly) may deep strike. and there shouldn't be any other real restrictions to that.

Also a 4+ base to hit for overwatch is going to get weird with orks.

Assassins should be able to infiltrate as well. Really, there's a lot of different types of Deep Strike that might make sense.

I think, if you specify that Deep Strikers measure through walls, unlike everyone else, it'll be a big blow to their advantage.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Assassins should be able to infiltrate as well. Really, there's a lot of different types of Deep Strike that might make sense.

I think, if you specify that Deep Strikers measure through walls, unlike everyone else, it'll be a big blow to their advantage.

Besides that these units that have deep strike and infiltrate pay out the butt to do it anyway (well terminators anyway)

putting them at a disadvantage already makes them worse to take.

The deep striking does present a bit of a problem, I think that only units that can usually be held in reserve and then deployed soon the table later should be able to use the stratagem as this would prevent it's use by units that would break it.
However thematically the various differ rules that cover deepstrike don't all fit with appearing in the middle of a ZM, other than leaving it up to the players to agree if it seems plausible I think it may be best to let them use it and say the they teleport instead of drop from orbit or whatever.

Having it measure the 9" through walls or only use in your own deployment zone would perhaps work. The wound restriction unfortunately restricts some units that it really should work with like lictors , assassins and paladin terminator.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Assassins should be able to infiltrate as well. Really, there's a lot of different types of Deep Strike that might make sense.

I think, if you specify that Deep Strikers measure through walls, unlike everyone else, it'll be a big blow to their advantage.

The ability to deep strike into tight space more than counters that.

 Desubot wrote:
It still doesn't make sense that you could technically use your deep strike strat to drop jump packs from low orbit into the inside of a ship some how.

They could cut their way into the ship in a different location. Boom, deep strike fluffed. So many ways of doing this that it's ridiculous.

 Desubot wrote:

if anything you should say only models with the teleporium rule (forget what its called exactly) may deep strike. and there shouldn't be any other real restrictions to that.

Except that teleporting into a moving ship is really dangerous.

But we're talking about game balance here, not what can be justified by the fluff. Allowing any unit with teleport deep strike to do so un-restricted makes a couple of units DRASTICALLY more powerful and gives the armies with those units a huge advantage over the bulk of other armies which have nothing.

 Desubot wrote:

Also a 4+ base to hit for overwatch is going to get weird with orks.

Already fixed before you posted.

 WisdomLS wrote:
Having it measure the 9" through walls or only use in your own deployment zone would perhaps work. The wound restriction unfortunately restricts some units that it really should work with like lictors , assassins and paladin terminator.

Getting out of fluff mode and into balance mode - how powerful a unit should be allowed to deep strike?

Assassins in ZM could be ridiculously dangerous (I say could be because it was impossible to take one in ZM in past editions and they wouldn't have been able to deep strike anyway). I'm not overly concerned about not permitting one of the four assassins to utilise it's deep strike capability (Even though this seems to be of deep importance to JNA).

Given that we've taken the risk away, I am loathe to allow an overly powerful unit use that stratagem.

Or, we go back to the previous idea - make it dangerous. Possibly forbid charging on the turn you arrive.


Door mathammer:

Initial proposal:
T8 W6 3+

Meltagun vs. door:
0 - 67%
1 - 1%
2 - 3%
3 - 5%
4 - 7%
5 - 9%
6 - 10%

14x Bolter shots vs. door:
0 - 59%
1 - 32%
2 - 8%
3 - 1%
4 - so close to 0 that it's irrelevant

This is too tough. 4 meltagun shots on average. Effectively impervious to boltguns is okay though, taking specialist door cutting weapons is part of ZM (and they were utterly impervious to anything short of S7 before).

New suggestion:
T8 W3 3+ Autohit in Melee

That now puts Meltaguns/Fusion Blasters/etc. killing a door 62.5% of the time with 2 shots which I think is about right. Still basically impervious to bolters.


Other weapons:

Plasma gun and cannon on overcharge are averaging 1.11 wounds with 2 shots. (used to take 9 shots to kill a door)
Assault cannon is averaging 0.67 (couldn't kill a door before)
Krak missile is 0.67 (but easy to skew upwards with a re-roll)
2x attacks with a Thunderhammer kills the door 90% of the time.

So - 2-3 meltagun/bombs/fusion blasters/etc. kills a door reasonably reliably. Anything else needs multiple squads shooting (difficult in ZM). Powerfists, thunderhammers, Klaws, etc. absolutely wreck them.

That looks to be around the right spot for the doors.

The deepstrike thing really seems to be a problem, with units paying for the privilege in their points cost they should gain some benefit but close range accurate advanced deployment really breaks zone mortals :/

I'm thinking a new rule that replaces all advanced deployment rules.
Perhaps At the end of any of your movement phase deploy anywhere on the table that is more than 9" away from enemy models (this does measure through walls) if this position isn't within your own deployment phase or within 3" of one of your other units roll a D6, on a 4+ the deploying unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.

I'm happy with not having an exception for the measuring. If they're 4" away on the other side of a 24" long wall - who cares? If you're worried about deepstrikers or infiltrators appearing just around the corner then you just need to position one guy to cover that corridor.

I actually like this. It adds an element of zonal fire control that 40K otherwise lacks.


I think the penalty needs to be MUCH harsher though. With no scatter you can deepstrike into spaces you'd never have dared try before and the downside is that you'll take on average one mortal wound? I'll take that trade off! Also, being just two rolls it's very easy to flip the result with a re-roll.

I need to do some distributions on different options.

I like the no penalty if you're near friends. What I'd really like is no penalty if you deepstrike into an area cleared by a friendly unit (i.e. friendly unit both close by and between you and enemies.) I'm struggling to put that into simple game mechanics...


Last big question, I think, before we start on stratagems - should charging without LoS (and therefore with immunity to overwatch) be allowed? Is it an un-needed power boost for melee or is it an interesting mechanic making positioning near doorways and corners really important?

Ok so what about making it more dangerous the bigger the squad is?

Any unit that deploys from strategic reserve and is not within 3" of a firendly unit or inside its deployment zone must roll a D6. On a 4+ it suffers D3 mortal wounds. If the unit contains 5 or more models on a 3+ it suffers 2D3 mortal wounds.

For the charging from out of LOS we can just add a 1CP stratagem that allows the unit to fire overwatch with all its weapons.

Why not make the mishap chance simpler, to represent terminators materialising in the walls or ceilings etc

"For units that come in from reserve via deepstrike or summoning ( or simular), roll a D6 for each model in the unit, for each roll of a 1 that number of models is immediately removed from the unit (unit owners choice)."

This would penalise bigger squads and losing whole models is a bit nastier than a few wounds. You could make it much harsher by making it a 1 or 2, which would mean losing an average of 3 models per 10 model unit, and allow a similar range to a the old 6" teleport transponder for any friendly HQ choices (or if that is too limiting make it any infantry unit).

You could even make a teleport transponder a CP purchase, for 2 or 3 CP I would get one if I had a use.


I think you missed the rule: "No unit may be larger than 10 models".
I really don't like the idea of conger lines of conscripts streaming around the map

I'm not sure about your take a wound on a 6 if you move over 9" rule. Thanks to GWS simplification of unit types I think certain units would be unfairly affected by that, such as necron scarabs & wraiths, where-as the original rules were meant to nerf bikes, jet bikes and jump infantry, You could add something about having the "Fly" keyword or has a minimum movement distance

Blast weapons should be better than just a re-roll, roll 2 dice pick the highest? It isn't that much more powerful but gives a better assurance on damage

 Scott-S6 wrote:

... should charging without LoS (and therefore with immunity to overwatch) be allowed? Is it an un-needed power boost for melee or is it an interesting mechanic making positioning near doorways and corners really important?

Interesting point. I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed but my solution would have been for the charged unit to make an initiative test to see if they can react in time to get overwatch but that isn't an option anymore. It might be interesting to try buffing overwatch on units that do have LoS on the unit they are being charged by, if you think it would be unfair.

I'm a big fan of ZM so its good to see some great ideas in this thread.