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As a rather new 40k player I went with my early teenage love from WHB and started an Ork army.
As a whole, I'm not disapointed with my choice cause I love my gits models and fluff (even if sometimes I got this idea that I play a NPC faction, but that's for another discussion).
I mostly play against a single opponent, a friend of mine, who is a pretty good player with a ton of experience, playing for more than 10 years. He plays chaos, index so far but he just bought the codex and I think he is gonna want to try it (can't blame him).
What buggers me is simply that I just keep losing again and again against him. And with the use of the codex, I'm affraid it's just gonna be worse.

We both aren't power gamers at all, we refuse to play named character (we are very about our own guys stories) and dispise spam.
My friend try new units every game, even really supbar ones, just out of curiousity or because he loves the models.
I can't suspect him to optimize, he certainly build and play rather effectively out of habbit but I can see he plays very ruthlessly when he should not if he was WAACing.
He build TAC even knowing he will face infantry orks and I know he won't be using the most OP codex options he has.
But in the end, and even when luck is with me, and I am lucky (a single warkopta doing 5 mortal wounds on an expensive 5 men havoc squad with its bomb...) I'm losing anyway, and rather badly.

For myself I'm rather limited in my choices, but my friend is totally ok with me proxying in order to test.
But truth is, even after reading trough the whole 8th ed ork threadz, I have not the single idea to how to play my army.

What I've tried :

With boyz, boss, warbanner, etc... the charge turn will hit like a trukk, but he will sacrifice 2 or 3 units if I'm lucky and the counter charge will destroy my spearhead. Basically, he chooses who I charge, because I have no mobility.
Trukks are tougher, but really with multiwounds weapons, they are still very fragile. Plus, 12 gits aren't much a threat to him. If I want to load a trukk with heavy hitters, like nobz, I can't have 2 trukk nobz, and a signle one will never reach his lines. At best, same problem than the line above.
Kommandos (and I love this guyz), they are a annoying at best.
Deffdread is funny, but I'm sure he willingly didn't destroyed him when he could to see what the dread was up to.

What I've not tried :

I haven't tried weirdboy yet, I really want, but I doubt a single mob jumped with a 1/2 chance to charge T1 is gonna make a huge difference. (the bastard deploys well).
Stormboyz seem fun but I really see them doig as good as kommandos
Tankbustas in trukks seem good, but 2 such trukks are really expensive, and I don't see one cut it.
As said before, no named character, and I don't want to.

I will willingly conceed that I'm not a great player, I'm still learning, and that orks are not the problem (I'm sure I can loose with every other army ). But even my friend said that it was not very fun to him either.

I'm not thinking about quiting, but to be honest, building such a high model army is very time and energy consuming. And to see them eat the dirt each game is starting to bother me.
So I would like some begginer's input for how to build and play orks.
I'm not asking for anyone to build me a list, just to put me on good tracks.

Sorry for the long rant but tl, dr : Tips to build orks would be good, tips to play orks would be great. Both would be awesome.
Thanks

Wierdboys using jump are great. You don't necessarily want to expose your kommandos and jump on the first turn. It can often be beneficial to wait for turn 2 or 3 when your opponent has spread out some.

Most competitive list are swarming with boyz or stormboyz with no vehicles and it seems to work pretty well. If you like vehicles (like I do) you need to take enough of comparable toughness units to force your opponent to make decisions about where their anti tank is going. I'd recommend a biker mek with force field to keep up and keep some protected plus some repairs.

Trukks are not so good right now. They cost a lot and don't have much durability. Ard case battlewagons for melee units or open topped for shooters seem to be a better bang for your buck.

Do you use any fortifications? The void shield generator is nice for big/mek gunz, and the plasma obliterator makes a good base for lootas. What about forge world rules? Some of the ork stuff isn't bad, but I haven't tried any of it personally yet.

Edit: check here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727761.page

Jumping a 30 man unit of orks with Da Jump is amazing. Storm boyz are pretty great also. Tank bustas are down right scary. Also a bunch of Killa Kans can mop through some stuff supported by a force field.

Thanks for your answers.

Weirdboy and storms I'm definitly gonna try soon. Storms by 15 boyz I guess ?

I've most certainly poorly played my kommandos so far. Would you advice 1-2-3 small units or one big bunch of them ? I was thinking 2 small units to insure a charge when I need one and benefit from the free burnas.

I've no big mek/gunz and I don't plan to buy some right now.
You confirm what I though about vehicles.

Forgot about killa kans, something to try.

I just doesn't want to have to play systematicly 3x30boys in casual plays.

Are tankbustas worth outside a vehicle ?

I'm under the impression that when we talk about orkz whichever is the type of unit, you have to take 2 or 3 to see them doing something.

Boys en masse.

I'm almost every edition I've played (3rd,5th,6th and 8th) I've always lived by the mantra boys before toys.

In a 1500-2000 point game I should have at least 90 boys on.the field.

I'm not competitive but what I've found so far in.this editio is that the jump is awesome. I've had great use of it. Wwaaagh banner too is another auto take for me. Storm boys are awesome. 2pts per jet back effectively. I own 15 and want more.. I wanna get the old 3rd ed sculpts though. New ones look pretty but are so.poorly balanced. Gonna eBay the old conversion.set soon and make a.new unit.

I've had to drop shokk attack gun lately as the randomness, although fun, is not being effective. Thinking of replacing with a Mek gun.

I find in my footslogga lists, dotting around dreads in the role of "distraction carnifex" works quite nicely. People feel the need to deal with the three four armed.robots and the group of 30 orks that just teleported next door. They normally do deal with them. But all the while boys and storm boys are creeping up with.support from.warboss and.waagh banner. They can.then advance and charge, often pulling off a turn 2 charge with 60+ boys with plus one to hit.

Other units I run are lootas spraying from.backfield cover and grots hiding.and running for last Minute objectives.

My.experience with the above tactic is mixed. I've done very well against nids. I've had okay results v Marines, tau and necrons. I've faired well v CSM. I've failed.miserably every time against eldar. Either been shot to pieces or had nothing to deal with grav tanks. Like I charge them, chip off a few wounds, it .flies away and shoots us to Pieces.

I enjoy running the horde ork army though. Feels right. Feels orky.

Let us know any changes you make and how they get on! Be interested to hear how you finally crush those traitor beakies.
-j

Thank you man, lot of good input. I will definitly let you know.

how do you manage to not have your weirdboy perils himself with this much boyz around him ?

PS : Your signature banner made me laugh.

Stormboyz /w Boss Nob + power Klaw, a squad of 30 of those is actually imposing. If you're feeling feisty you could bring 90 of them in an outrider detachment.

Don't sleep on Da Jump... it's solid

IronSlug wrote:
Thank you man, lot of good input. I will definitly let you know.

how do you manage to not have your weirdboy perils himself with this much boyz around him ?

PS : Your signature banner made me laugh.

They peril all the time, but I keep a doc (grotsnik) with mine to help keep them in the fight.

Oh he perils. He perils solidly.

But he has 4 wounds (I think) and the perils inflicts d3 wounds. So he survives haha.

FW units ...
Big Trakk and Kill tank both rock for orks even if they cost a bit ..
Killtank is LoW choice and hitting on 4+ instead of 5+ just rocks
Big Trakk with skorcha has only half the transport of a trukk but has same T and more wounds so get there and roasts the enemy at range ...

wierd boy ..do not leave hoem without him
Tankbustas in Bigtrakk + skorcha or nobz in big trakk + skorcha get where they need to go and wreak face/..

Tankbustas have great synergy with a big trakk + skorcha
(same range similar targets)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Movement trays for the boyz ..Just do it ..it makes games go faster and templates are not a thing anymore...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kommandoes ..3 small units to irritate ..(do not bother charging with them just shoot and hide) BC, Burna, burna..choppa choppa ..Move them to in cover and hide ..if they ignore them they strike from behind if they shoot them they arnt shooting the boyz..or the nobz or the tankbustas..

The Orks only competitive/solid build this edition is mass Boyz/Stormboyz (Boyz win out because of Objective Secured).

Da Jump is what makes your army work.

Every other unit is worthless in reality. Overpriced and underpowered.

Tankbustas arent great but they're the only anti-tank we got so... need to make them work.

fe40k wrote:


Every other unit is worthless in reality. Overpriced and underpowered.

Tankbustas arent great but they're the only anti-tank we got so... need to make them work.

Only tournaments wise. In a friendly or semi-competitive meta orks have other options, even naughts, trukks and battlewagons, eventually shielded by a KFF, can work very well. Tankbustas are great, but they need a transport and some other vehicle in the list, otherwise they'll soak the entire enemy anti tank and they will always die turn 1. 20 tankbustas in 2 trukks are present everytime in my lists but I don't play footsloggers, only embarked units, mek gunz, kommandos or biker characters.

1) Try this list:
3xbattalion each with
Warboss on bike with big choppa
Weirdboy
Painboy with killsaw
30 shoota boyz, nob with choppa + slugga
30 slugga boyz, nob with big choppa
10 slugga boyz, nob with big choppa

2) About weirdboyz: The most important power is smite, then warpath, then da jump. Da jump can be game-winning, but it can easily lose you the game as well. Use with caution.

3) Advance all units each turn, except when you can get your shoota Boyz within 18" of a juicy target by ordinary movement. Slugga Boyz should advance until they can charge something.

4) Remember that you can charge one unit, eating overwatch from it, and then engage multiple other units with the pile-in move. You cannot attack these latter units in the same fight phase, but on the other hand they don't get to fire overwatch, and they will often have to forfeit a turn of shooting by falling back.

5) If you can bracket a single sturdy model of his (like a rhino), then your entire squad cannot be shot at, because he cannot fall back. You can then use pile-in and consolidation moves to engage all of his stuff, while remaining unshootable (except by pistols).


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6) And one more thing: Get you friend to play maelstrom

Still not lost to orks yet this edition with my wolves even green tide which had me massively outnumbered.

I've killed kans and dreads with no problem, vehicles pop fast and even meganobz haven't troubled me.

Honestly I'm not sure what orcs need but they certainly arnt the terror people predicted they'd be.

Orks need ranged units that can handle dangerous target from a distance that cannot be wiped out with the half-assed shooting from a single enemy unit.

 Jidmah wrote:
Orks need ranged units that can handle dangerous target from a distance that cannot be wiped out with the half-assed shooting from a single enemy unit.

So, KMK Mek Gunz?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Orks need ranged units that can handle dangerous target from a distance that cannot be wiped out with the half-assed shooting from a single enemy unit.

So, KMK Mek Gunz?

Kind of, except for the 5+ save on the guns. A trukk looks like a battletank next to the durability of five mek gunz.

 Jidmah wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Orks need ranged units that can handle dangerous target from a distance that cannot be wiped out with the half-assed shooting from a single enemy unit.

So, KMK Mek Gunz?

Kind of, except for the 5+ save on the guns. A trukk looks like a battletank next to the durability of five mek gunz.

That's why a KFF mek babysits them

That somehow magically protects the gunz from heavy bolters, autocannons, assault cannons, hurricane bolters and other high volume low AP guns that are aimed their way?
A 5++ offers barely enough protection to prevent an enemy from killing more than one battlewagon per turn, which are 4+ W16 T8.

Not to mention how easily they are killed by units that can get close to them.

Oh, and you will probably post "bubble wrap them" now, upping the cost of the unit to over 400 for what is essentially a plasma cannon devastator squad that's easier to kill.

What missing is something along the lines of a predator, wave serpent, basilisks. Not in firepower, in durability.

So after a forced hiatus we plman to make another game soon. I'm pushing for 500pts as it's the only format in which I'm able to take what I want and not what I can.
I was thinking to go with that :

HQ
- Warboss w/ Powerklaw
- Weirdnob
Troops
- Boyz x30 Nob w/ Big choppa
Elite
- 8 Kommandos 2 burnas Nob w/ BigChoppa
Support
- 5 Lootas

Lootas because so far with my stupid luck they performed pretty good. Plus, as a backline they'll prevent early nasty deepstrike on the rear of my boyz blob.
Kommandos because I love this guys plus they'll allow me some flexibility with their deepstrike.

What I'm affraid of :
- His god hated Demon Prince.
Globally, his units tend to underperform, except for this guy who's just plain amazing.
If he charges a character, he kills him, as should be.
So I'm goona try to protect my two HQ in the middle of the blob.
I'm not even sure he will bring him at 500pts.

- Mobility.
Yeah, it's footslogging boyz with a lot of terrain to delay them. I don't think he can (we use a small table at this format) / want to kite me all game.
But he can manage to delay the charge long enough to kill so much boyz it won't be as scary.
For this reason, even if I was going to use Warpath as power, I'm starting to think going whith Da Jump.

What do you think ?
Don't bother to mention Stormboyz, I have ordered some but they've not arrived yet.

I could eventually drop the lootas and the 3 extra Kommandos for another smaller units of boyz.

IronSlug wrote:
dispise spam

If you call 100 boyz spam, we've got a problem here.

Currently orks don't have much options other than boyz spam if you want to win games. Wait for the codex, it might change in a year or so. Or you could just play for fun and forget about winning. If your opponent is a casual player also, he'll probably bring more things like possessed or footslogging mellee chosen and it's gona be an even matchup.

Orks BS 5+ means don't rely on their shooty bits. Ork strength seems to be their numbers and lotsa dice rolls. really with Orks I'd recommend go with what you enjoy; I have the range of stuff and mix it up; even made a couple of skorchas from landspeeders for some fun; Orks are to be enjoyed; koptas seem to work great but will die, lotsa rokkits tend to hurt tha foe(need lots coz so many miss hehe); I love throwing my stompa in for the fun of it and have found the nauts do okay too. Be fluffy! Enjoy! Celebrate if you win, celebrate if you don't!

 koooaei wrote:

IronSlug wrote:
dispise spam

If you call 100 boyz spam, we've got a problem here.

Meaning that's the only way to make somehing worth playing ?

That would not be aproblem as they are troops plus there is not a lot of options.

Orks tipycal footslogging lists have 150-180 boyz at 2000 points.

IronSlug wrote:
So after a forced hiatus we plman to make another game soon. I'm pushing for 500pts as it's the only format in which I'm able to take what I want and not what I can.
I was thinking to go with that :

HQ
- Warboss w/ Powerklaw
- Weirdnob
Troops
- Boyz x30 Nob w/ Big choppa
Elite
- 8 Kommandos 2 burnas Nob w/ BigChoppa
Support
- 5 Lootas

At 500 points, two HQs might be a bit too much. Decide whether you want a big beatstick to crush his units or some guaranteed mortal wounds through smiting. Drop the other.

Also I wouldn't bother with the kommandoz, they are basically boyz. If you just bring a mob of boyz with a big choppa nob instead, you gain more wounds and attacks without losing much. If you already have a ton of boyz, they are a great distraction, but at 500 points they are just half of your army deployed elsewhere.
Some footslogging nobz might also be an option, just don't sink too many point in upgrades, ammo runts, shootas and some big choppas are more than enough. They work quite well against daemon princes as well.

What I'm affraid of :
- His god hated Demon Prince.
Globally, his units tend to underperform, except for this guy who's just plain amazing.
If he charges a character, he kills him, as should be.
So I'm goona try to protect my two HQ in the middle of the blob.
I'm not even sure he will bring him at 500pts.

Just make sure that he has to charge both the warboss and the blob at the same time, either through heroic intervention or by forcing him to charge within 1" of the boyz mob when assaulting the warboss. One or the other should be able to down the daemon prince.
Don't let him charge the warphead if you can help it. Have your boyz mob in a U shape around him to keep him safe.
Also keep shooting your lootas at that quy whenever you can, those 2 damage add up.