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Not sure if this is the right place to put this, so I apologize in advance!

Now, we all know Necromunda is being released towards the end of the year, and obviously, some gun stats, rules and costs will bound to change.
This thread is to discuss possible changes, and to see what others think if any weapons need to be added (since there are a lot more introduced since 1995!)

OK, my 2 pence: I always thought lasguns were undercosted. Great ammo roll, cheap, and easily available, it simply was the most powerful choice.
25 creds I thought was too generous. 30-35 creds would make it more of a luxury, but pay for itself after a few games.

What does dakka think?

There is a skirmish game forum that might be more appropriate.

Regarding las guns, they are supposed to be ubiquitous and stamped out in their millions by the foundries of the planet so I don't think it's too foolish for them to be cheapish. If lasgu 's go up to 35 then bolt guns would need to go even higher along with most of the heavy weapons.

 Flinty wrote:
There is a skirmish game forum that might be more appropriate.

Regarding las guns, they are supposed to be ubiquitous and stamped out in their millions by the foundries of the planet so I don't think it's too foolish for them to be cheapish. If lasgu 's go up to 35 then bolt guns would need to go even higher along with most of the heavy weapons.

Hmm... true. I hadn't thought of it that way. I guess I'm still a bit sore from my mate power gaming my arse with a whole group of las gun wielding Van Saar's back in the day.

But seriously, something needs addressing. At the moment, there is no reason apart from aesthetics to taking a autogun over a lasgun. Would making the lasgun -1 to hit at distance help, like the laspistol?

If you haven't heard, the rules for the new Necromunda are supposed to be based off the current 8th edition rules, which means anything you know about Necromunda from its previous iterations is likely meaningless when it comes to applying it to what the next edition *might* be.

 yakface wrote:

If you haven't heard, the rules for the new Necromunda are supposed to be based off the current 8th edition rules, which means anything you know about Necromunda from its previous iterations is likely meaningless when it comes to applying it to what the next edition *might* be.

Still it is fun to speculate is it not?

Personally I am hoping for a Lasgun price hike - Bolters where okay but Lasguns where just down right amazing as whilst a Bolter was liable to run out/jam early on in the game the humble Lasgun just kept plinking away, almost never failing. I am not going to lie, I exploited the hell out of them and I loved them but they where broken.
Shotguns are a weapon that I want to see buffed, and given some love. It needs a slightly better ammo roll on its basic slugs and it really could do with an expanded armoury of shell types - after all the appeal of the Shotty was its versatility and not its range.
I want to see Heavy Stubbers stay. I always loved them and their cheap fire support goodness.

However the real thing that I want to see is not a gun but a target. A reason to invest credits in the big, expensive, pieces. Barring the odd Scaly or Outlander Sentinel Lascannons and Krak Missile Launchers where a waste of credits backin the day as the bulk of your targets where squishy T3/4 bods with little to no armour, and everything that the big AT stuff did to themcould be done better by a (much) cheaper automatic gun. I mean yes, Lascannons and Krak Missiles where amazingly good at breaching armour and where the best weapons for taking on tough and tanky models with beefy T, great saves and multiple wounds, but those vehicles quite simply did not exist in most Necromunda gangs.

Have any of you played with the Necromunda: Community Edition rules? The autogun/lasgun difference had balance changes via lasgun losing a save mod and losing 4" of short-range distance to make the Autogun a better close quarter battle rifle.

The balances of all the weapons is fine, in my opinion. The bolt pistol could be 20 creds and the bolter could maybe be 30, but that's about it. The heavy stubber and lasgun are "so good omfg" but are also ubiquitous. There are a ton of "over-costed" weapons like the meltagun and lascannon, but Necromunda isn't necessarily about creating a equality-for-all weapon roster but a good representation of weapon availability/expense.

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
Have any of you played with the Necromunda: Community Edition rules? The autogun/lasgun difference had balance changes via lasgun losing a save mod and losing 4" of short-range distance to make the Autogun a better close quarter battle rifle.

Yeah the NCE rules did wonders for making noticeable differences between auto and las weapons that make the costs balanced, actually for all the weapons. Those range differences changed a lot of tactics when I used to play. I made up for it by forking out for everyone to have an autopistol as backup...more than worth it

Is that true, that they're using 8th rather than 2nd as the base for the new game?

About las weapons to auto weapons; I'd have made auto weapons have a higher rate of fire compared to their las equivalents but at the cost of accuracy at range and reliability. Make them more of a close quarters weapon.

The latest rumour (see the news thread somewhere) has Andy Hoare apparently saying the new rules will be a revision of the old rules, and that he doesn't know where this talk of 8th edition came from. YMMV. Personally, I feel any talk of rules is pointless until there's some actual news to base it on. Otherwise all that happens is that people here end up with their own weird idea of how the game will be, then blame GW for lying to them when that turns out not to be the case.

Andy Hoare has been in the Necromunda FB group quite often and has been clear that it's based upon 8th.

That said weapon and cred costs should still be relevent.

I never found the ubiquity of Lasguns to be a problem as Creds were hardly ever that abundant in Necro.

I sincerely hope they don't take SWA's popularity to mean that they should go in that direction for the finance and experience systems. SWA took the challenge out of developing killer equipment load outs.

Ubiquity of Lasguns? Lasguns where a no-brainer autotake over the Autogun, costing only five more creds for a near guaranteed pass on ammo rolls. You only ever took Autoguns for fluff purposes, WYSIWYG on the old metals or if you really needed those five extra credits.
The Lasgun was amazing, and by the time you really started needing that extra bit of hitting power (mid-late game when T4 or more save 5+ or better models became more common) you usually had enough credits to purchase Bolter's with reloads, Heavy Bolters and Plasma weaponry.
And even then the Lasgun remained useful, with its amazing ammo rolls.

They're not going to be exactly based on 8th. There are elements of 8th in there, but saying it's based on 8th would be a bit of a stretch.



As for the OP's question, I never felt that Lasguns were undercosted. The issue was always with Autoguns not being as good. Save Mods don't matter in Necro nearly as much as they do in, say, Shadow War, so really it comes down to the ammo roll.

We made it so Autoguns (and pistols, for that matter) got 1 Sustained Fire at short range. So you could go for greater up-close firepower at the larger risk of running out of ammo, or more reliability but an all-or-nothing approach.

Worked pretty well.

We also never used the "Failed Ammo Roll = All ammo types gone", because that penalised shotguns too much. Why take a versatile weapon that ceases to be useful because of one bad roll?

I was always partially to my Autocannon. Not sure why people shunned it. Suppose the lack of model and the fact that it had a lower rate of fire put people off. But, that thing brutalised a few gangs. It didn't have the rate of fire of the Heavy Stubber, but by heck it clobbered anything it hit. In one memorable game I rolled the magic 3 on the sustained fire dice and took out the opponents leader and two gangers.

Was particularity annoyed when they brought in the house weapon restrictions

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They're not going to be exactly based on 8th. There are elements of 8th in there, but saying it's based on 8th would be a bit of a stretch.



As for the OP's question, I never felt that Lasguns were undercosted. The issue was always with Autoguns not being as good. Save Mods don't matter in Necro nearly as much as they do in, say, Shadow War, so really it comes down to the ammo roll.

We made it so Autoguns (and pistols, for that matter) got 1 Sustained Fire at short range. So you could go for greater up-close firepower at the larger risk of running out of ammo, or more reliability but an all-or-nothing approach.

Worked pretty well.

We also never used the "Failed Ammo Roll = All ammo types gone", because that penalised shotguns too much. Why take a versatile weapon that ceases to be useful because of one bad roll?

Autopistols were, IIRC, the better choice over laspistols due to their +2 to hit at short range. As for Autoguns, they used to be slightly longer-ranged in 1st edition 40k; that might have been worth keeping. Perhaps also giving them +1-1 to hit at short/long range and having the lasgun be zero modifier at all ranges?

They could also be fitted with silencers, but silencers were so difficult to get hold of that that never really made much of a difference.

Never had an issue with lasguns in my campaigns. They're the standard boring go to rifle. Anyone who wanted one bought one and nobody batted an eyelid.
But then again none of us were Beardy power gamers. We just enjoyed the game.
I've of a mate who was a nasty shotgun surgeon. His Delaque would infiltrate into close range and remove your fire cover in the first couple of turns.
Another friend of mine also swore by his Autocannon. And yes those things are absolutely brutal!
I've found house weapons list to be good bit of flavour for the various gangs but it doesn't suit everyone's style and tends to annoy people who got used to the old free for all.

The Cawdor weapon list is stupid though. the gang is supposed to be all about ferocity and those skills lean toward close combat but the weapon list is primarily ranged. It does however give access to bolt weapons in abnormaly high volumes so just to utilise that I went all bolty and found that when the majority of your guys are hiting with reasonable accuracy at S4 a jammed weapon is perfectly serviceable to pummel all the downed targets out of action with.

Everyone talking about ranged but nothing about melee! Which I guess is fair because most of them were terrible overall.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Everyone talking about ranged but nothing about melee! Which I guess is fair because most of them were terrible overall.

I saw melee as fun, up until the balance if firepower made melee rather obsolete unless running certain gangs/certain skills. I'm hoping they make melee more viable, fang be gang warfare without some bloody up close fights, can it?

It was disappointing to me because I wanted to make Goliath work.. So hard, but without swords you didn't parry, which made things awkward. Most weapons were pretty feh without parry, unless they were just straight up highly good.

If memory serves, the Lasgun had -1 to hit at long range, impacting its overall reliability.

Mind you, I always eschewed rifles in favour of Shotguns and pistols. Best to get up close and personal in my opinion