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I have been thinking this over in my spare time and I believe I have a logical explanation for the construction of chain weapons. They aren't on a chainsaw track like modern chainsaws, as those would break far too easily. Instead, 41st millennium chain weapons are attached to a magnetic track that runs around the inside of the housing, like a bullet train but far deadlier. This would account for their penetrating power, not breaking when exposed to something they can't cut, and why they don't whip out at their users. Please reply with your thoughts on this little theory of mine.

Thats possible, though the simpler explanation is that they are much like modern chainsaws, but the technology is so superior that they've mostly solved the issue with the chains falling off.

That might well be how the better quality, Masterwork versions are made. The standard ones handed out to the rank and file are probably more like a chainsaw, but as Grey Templar says, made of far stronger material the ones we use with an engine that runs far, far faster.

Except the armor they're meant to cut through are often made of the same if not better materials.

Maybe the visible teeth are for grip rather than the teeth on the chain - this is just a theory - consider the possibility that the chain actually runs in the opposite direction to the visible teeth and the visible teeth are connected to the casing rather than the chain.
So the visible teeth provide grip as the less obvious chain runs against them, forcing them to sink deeper as it does the actual damage.
The chain itself could be more like the chainsaws we're familiar with - a moderate sized tooth on every second link or possibly more links with the teeth links having blades somewhere between angle-grinder and circular saw tool size, having the visible outer teeth privides stability and a brace for the inner teeth to cut against even when swung with impact force, since the chain isn't the first point of contact it wouldnt be smashed between the target and its runners and might not be so likely to break or dislodge from its track and lash the user rather than doing any damage to the target.

Forgive me my Robot-Wars/Battlebots geek out.

Captain Gallardi wrote:
Instead, 41st millennium chain weapons are attached to a magnetic track that runs around the inside of the housing, like a bullet train but far deadlier. This would account for their penetrating power, not breaking when exposed to something they can't cut, and why they don't whip out at their users.

And how strong should this magical magnetic rail be? You need some SERIOUS magnetic field to be more resistant than a mechanical guide rail. Also even if you had this magic magnetic field that can hold it all, the magnetic rail itself is attached to something that holds it, which then has to take the pressure. Therefore you are back at square one. Also, what if the target is ferro-magnetic - it will repell the chainsword.

Most depictions of imperial chainswords are essentially a chainsaw but with half of the belt shealthed in a cover with only one half of the chain exposed, others have the entire belt uncovered and a sword like handle. the materials of the chain, blades, and more are composed of fictional metals giving them absurd amount of durability and the ability to cut things they shouldn't without problems such as chains snapping or other problems. After all, rule of cool runs the universe.... Lightsabers are not messy and METAL enough for 40k.


the actual function of the chainsword depends on the writer. From magnetic rails to straight chainsaw-like function.


IN short, Don't think about it. Its not ment to actually work or be feasible in reality.

A real Chainsword would work and be very deadly, but would be extremely dangerous for everyone around it, especially the user. You would have to be careful to not gore yourself alone but a strike on an unarmored target would be devastating but gore, blood, and more would be thrown everywhere and possible jam the weapon, or even blind the user. Not to mention cover them top to bottom in blood and guts.

But for 40k, that's the whole idea. the universe runs on everything cranked to 11 and to be METAL as possible.

 Engine of War wrote:
IN short, Don't think about it. Its not ment to actually work or be feasible in reality.

A real Chainsword would work and be very deadly, but would be extremely dangerous for everyone around it, especially the user. You would have to be careful to not gore yourself alone but a strike on an unarmored target would be devastating but gore, blood, and more would be thrown everywhere and possible jam the weapon, or even blind the user.

Deadly with a caveat - only against relatively soft material. Because a chainsaw cuts only through the motion of the teeth alone. That means if you swing it hard and fast, you are not gaining much, as it's not a sharpened blade. The teeth have a limited speed at which they cut. Force it to hard or swing too fast and it will not cut - it would either glance off, or the motor would stall. So you have to give it time. Which makes it a weapon of limited use and not the "40k lightsaber equivalent" it is often portrayed at in fluff/artwork.

It would possibly cut through hard material like normal metal eventually. A diamont grinder blade also cuts metal. But it takes ages. It simply takes too long for a realistic chainblade to pull this off in a hectic and fast mass-combat situation, even if it could survive the physical abuse from impacts. So if the enemy is soft tissued, or can be knocked out simply by using the chainsword as a bludgeoning tool (which real swords where too) then great. If he is heavily armored then it will be a very stupid weapon to take.

There was a funny fight in the recent Ragnar Blackmane novel...well, I found it funny...Ragnar with Frostfang vs a Dark Angel officer - whose name escapes me - using a Power Sword. All I could think was when those blades meet both guys and the group surrounding them are going to be killed by shards of flying metal.

Shouldn't the PS just cut through Frostfang? Or do they have little sensors that detect armor and only allow them to cut through that?

In Cadian Blood they do a Chainsword duel with blades off, reduces damage to the blades and its safer

There are two things that need to be considered a given before chainswords can be used as a weapon :
A) They need to be able to deal with the enormous physical abuse. Impact of very hard teeth on other hard materials without easily shattering/bending. If that is ensured, the chain system still needs to absorb all the forces without it beeing affected. The motor needs to be able to power the teeth, even under extreme load.
B) Their handling characteristics (weight, length, inertia, ...) need to be such that it is even possible to swing them effectively.

Provided this is assured, they can be deadly weapons. But they are no wonder weapon and have limited usefullness in some cases. They work best only against soft tissue/material targets . Because a chainsaw cuts only through the motion of the teeth alone. That means if you swing it harder/faster, you are not gaining any advantage. The teeth have a limited speed at which they cut. Force it too hard or swing too fast and it will not cut - it would either glance off, or the motor would stall. That means a super powerfull wielder has no real advantage (other than that he can overcome weapon inertia faster).
It's said that the teeth are some super-material that can cut most of everything. While this can be true (except when the enemies are armored with the same super material), there are still strong limitations to such a weapon. Take a grinder with diamond blade as example. It cuts basically anything. But it takes a very long time. The same will happen with the chainsaw. Even if it can cut other metals, it will be too slow to be effective in a hectic and fast mass-combat or duel situation.
The longer the teeth are, the more power the motor will generally require to move and cut when the teeth/chain are pressed against objects. On long teeth, the motor would stall much easier when coming into contact with something hard and beeing pressed to strongly. When the motor is very powerfull however and fast spinning, the teeth will very easily glance off a hard object that can't be cut through quickly, as the wielder might not have the strength and reaction to push against the resulting cutting force just in time with enough force. If he can however, the shock on the teeth will be very high and even super materials can break.
On the other hand, long teeth can serve as nasty spikes when the weapon is used as club/bludgeoning tool. So longer teeth will be more usefull/devestating against soft skin enemies, shorter teeth will be better at cutting hard materials.

Use cases:
1) Use when the enemy can be cut through by teeth extremely quickly on a single blow -> a very effective weapon that does not require much force in the blow. However, if the wielder is very strong, a regular cutting sword will be much more effective to cleave through enemies, as he is not limited by the cuttingspeed of the chainsword.
2) Use when the nemy can be destroyed/ temporarily disabled by blunt force, using the chainsword as simple bludgeoning tool without cutting (which is the secondary nature of real cutting edge swords as well).
3) Use when the enemy can't be cut quickly but is temporarily disabled - cut open enemy like a chainsaw cuts wood. A functionality a regular sword is very much inferior in (comparison handsaw vs chainsaw).
4) Use as utility tool to gain access / destroy material without extreme physical effort.

 Keep wrote:

Captain Gallardi wrote:
Instead, 41st millennium chain weapons are attached to a magnetic track that runs around the inside of the housing, like a bullet train but far deadlier. This would account for their penetrating power, not breaking when exposed to something they can't cut, and why they don't whip out at their users.

And how strong should this magical magnetic rail be? You need some SERIOUS magnetic field to be more resistant than a mechanical guide rail. Also even if you had this magic magnetic field that can hold it all, the magnetic rail itself is attached to something that holds it, which then has to take the pressure. Therefore you are back at square one. Also, what if the target is ferro-magnetic - it will repell the chainsword.

Something like one of those super magnetic materials like iron cobalt, where when the switch is flipped it runs a magnetic signal along the length of the weapon, causing it to spin at extreme speed in the opposite direction. By the 41st millenium, this would be easy, with a strip of material and a circular bar of teeth.

Arent real world chainsaw build this way so they can be light to carry?
What about if they are built more like a tank track instead, with alot more support?
Weight is not that big of a issue for a space marine.

 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
Arent real world chainsaw build this way so they can be light to carry?
What about if they are built more like a tank track instead, with alot more support?
Weight is not that big of a issue for a space marine.

Inertia. You'd tend to over extend Also the weight and motion would make the weapon harder to control. Ever try to swing a chain saw around and kill something with it? It's not easy, and worse tends to get stuck. That last one is potentially lethal, as pointed out in the Zombie Survival Guide.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Shouldn't the PS just cut through Frostfang? Or do they have little sensors that detect armor and only allow them to cut through that?

In Cadian Blood they do a Chainsword duel with blades off, reduces damage to the blades and its safer

That would be my first thought as well Frostfang explodes on impact and bits of chainsword kill everybody nearby.
But Frostfang is a crazy relic blade type deal with Monstrous Creature teeth that are tougher than any known alloy - I've always wondered what holds such a thing in place since the mounting would have to be tougher than the teeth as well as workable - in other words Frostfang is a nonsense blade and possibly Chaos since it doesn't follow normal rules.

Edit - Back to chainsaw handling, leverage also becomes an issue - if you've ever cut metal with a handheld device you'd be familliar with the torque those things pack, a chainsword that can cut metal could very well have the power to pull a Space Marine up the side of whatever he attacks or straight down facefirst into the back of the blade.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Shouldn't the PS just cut through Frostfang? Or do they have little sensors that detect armor and only allow them to cut through that?

In Cadian Blood they do a Chainsword duel with blades off, reduces damage to the blades and its safer

Frostfang has a power field, doesn't it? Power weapons supposedly just repel each other lightsaber style without damage to either weapon.

I reckon most normal imperial worlds would produce the simplest and quickest constructible version, therefore I believe most are run the same way as a chainsaw. Its not difficult to imagine the teeth are made of a strong and sharp material be it some form of metal alloy or industrial diamond etc. It may be common practice to service the blade after battles with new sets of teeth as they must be prone to damage and wear. Apart from protecting the user the guard might also be there as a sump that lubricates the chain passing through with a high density chain lubricating oil, or in my opinion more likely heavy duty industrial grease. As for the motor that could vary dramatically but I think a promethium powered combustion engine might be the norm. If I were to design a chain sword for example using what I have said above the chain would be lubricated in the top guard, also cleaning the teeth of grime, the engine above the handle would turn the bottom closest sprocket (unless you had a very fine PTO shaft with a UJ joint at both ends to power it from the top. That might help the motor deal with resistance more easily as the chain would be pulling down from the top rather than the bottom - I could be wrong in this theory? In any case the UJ joints would be prone to having the bearings blow out at some point and UJ's are a personal hatred to replace in my experience) and there would be a spring adjustable tensioner on the top sprocket to keep the chain from either being too tight or slack and for servicing the chain itself.

Slightly off topic, but last year I visited England's biggest quarry and masonry factory near Huddersfield and on tour I saw a giant chain blade they use to cut giant blocks of rock, it had industrial diamond teeth and cut through the stone like a knife through butter.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Shouldn't the PS just cut through Frostfang? Or do they have little sensors that detect armor and only allow them to cut through that?

In Cadian Blood they do a Chainsword duel with blades off, reduces damage to the blades and its safer

Frostfang has a power field, doesn't it? Power weapons supposedly just repel each other lightsaber style without damage to either weapon.

Seems like it, at least according to the rules.

Not to forget, Space Marines are very strong - the main damage from a chainsword hit is likely to be the blunt impact of that marine hitting you with a heavy object. The chainsaw buzzing ripping into meat is just secondary damage but very gruesome and demoralizing.

Spetulhu wrote:
Not to forget, Space Marines are very strong - the main damage from a chainsword hit is likely to be the blunt impact of that marine hitting you with a heavy object. The chainsaw buzzing ripping into meat is just secondary damage but very gruesome and demoralizing.

Indeed, much like the total overkill of the boltgun's design, the chainsword seems to be intended as a terror weapon.

It doesn't go into much detail, but IIRC the Ciaphas Cain novels do mention on occasion that fighting techniques with a chainsword are different to those used with an ordinary sword or a power sword. I think that's why Cain sticks with his relatively lowly chainsword, as he doesn't want to have to unlearn decades of reflex actions.

For what it's worth some guys out there actualy built a chainsword with modern materials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gj8pAN7Y7E


I guess this + 35000 years developement + futuristic materials could make a kinda working weapon

 Keep wrote:

 Engine of War wrote:
IN short, Don't think about it. Its not ment to actually work or be feasible in reality.

A real Chainsword would work and be very deadly, but would be extremely dangerous for everyone around it, especially the user. You would have to be careful to not gore yourself alone but a strike on an unarmored target would be devastating but gore, blood, and more would be thrown everywhere and possible jam the weapon, or even blind the user.

Deadly with a caveat - only against relatively soft material. Because a chainsaw cuts only through the motion of the teeth alone. That means if you swing it hard and fast, you are not gaining much, as it's not a sharpened blade. The teeth have a limited speed at which they cut. Force it to hard or swing too fast and it will not cut - it would either glance off, or the motor would stall. So you have to give it time. Which makes it a weapon of limited use and not the "40k lightsaber equivalent" it is often portrayed at in fluff/artwork.

It would possibly cut through hard material like normal metal eventually. A diamont grinder blade also cuts metal. But it takes ages. It simply takes too long for a realistic chainblade to pull this off in a hectic and fast mass-combat situation, even if it could survive the physical abuse from impacts. So if the enemy is soft tissued, or can be knocked out simply by using the chainsword as a bludgeoning tool (which real swords where too) then great. If he is heavily armored then it will be a very stupid weapon to take.

I acknowledge what you say regarding the limited speed of the chain moving. However, that is assuming the speed of the chain moving is the same as modern chainsaws. For example, a modern chainsaw couldn't swing like a sword. As you say, the teeth aren't moving fast enough to cut through before its main body impacts and then its just grinding. A modern chainsaw's chain, according to a quick google, travels at 55-60mph, or 88 feet per second. Why should we NOT assume for a moment that the teeth of a chainsword are moving fast enough to make that cut, say, with 41s Millennium Promethium engines and better, stronger materials, we could get that to double, maybe triple, that speed? Would teeth moving at 120, 180, mph (175/250 feet per second) be moving fast enough to make that cut? I think that's something to consider.

 Deadshot wrote:
However, that is assuming the speed of the chain moving is the same as modern chainsaws. For example, a modern chainsaw couldn't swing like a sword. As you say, the teeth aren't moving fast enough to cut through before its main body impacts and then its just grinding. A modern chainsaw's chain, according to a quick google, travels at 55-60mph, or 88 feet per second. Why should we NOT assume for a moment that the teeth of a chainsword are moving fast enough to make that cut, say, with 41s Millennium Promethium engines and better, stronger materials, we could get that to double, maybe triple, that speed? Would teeth moving at 120, 180, mph (175/250 feet per second) be moving fast enough to make that cut? I think that's something to consider.

Even 3 or ten times as much would not be enough. Significant increase in chain revs per second also increase friction drastically, wearing parts out much quicker. Even super materials wear out, unless they are completely indestructible in which case armor made of it would make any weapon like that useless....
To have any benefit from the chain while swinging it like a sword, it would have to cut away all the material it would "collide" with during its downwards motion. Pretty much the same as if you would try to shovel the ground below you faster/ precisely at the same speed away than your speed in free fall. And not in any direction, but to the side of you. If you are slower you simply get stopped and you will only "fall" as fast as you can shovel.

I have no idea how fast the middle of a blade on a regular sword is during a powerfull swing. If you do, multiply that speed with the width of the chainblade and the length of the cut you want to make to find out how much volume per second you have to "displace" for the cut to go through unimpeded. Then make an assumption for the cuttingarea of the teeth normal to the traveling direction of the chain and multiply with the speed of tooth along the chain as variable. Now compare both displacements per second and solve for the speed of the chain as function of teeth surface area.
I have no intent of calculating that, but my gut as engineer and beeing familiar with lathes and drilling tools tells me that your teeth either have to be the size of buckets, or your blade would have to move at ludicrous speeds (several 10k revolutions of the chain per second). From this "velocity through material" you could also calculate the force if you know the cutting geometry and material properties you want to cut... just sayin

Well diamond can cut diamond, right? Steel can cut steel.

If I remember correctly, from the old battle manual and rogue trader books, the Chainswords were described as having an integrated disruption field generator that helped disrupt and weaken the matter before the adamantium teeth bit. Similar in how Powerswords and like are supposed to work.

"Make your swords become like things unto chainsaws."

And now you know how chainswords actually work and are constructed. You're welcome.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Thats possible, though the simpler explanation is that they are much like modern chainsaws, but the technology is so superior that they've mostly solved the issue with the chains falling off.

40k is full of impossible material science fantasy that allow for a lot of hand waving designs. like any titan.

To some degree you've gotta handwave some of the technical problems with a chainsword as a weapon. People have made videos discussing it, including me.

Science fiction (and fantasy) weapons never make sense. They aren't meant to. They are just meant to be cool. The fact that they wouldn't work in RL can be handwaved with superior technology of the future that we have no knowledge of.