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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






How do?

Spinning off from the 'Worst Games Store' thing, and reflecting on criticism of the GW approach, I'd like to have a chat about why sales people sell you stuff.

Now first, I'd like to confirm there are good and bad sales people. The same goes for sales practices. Now where that line lies is massively subjective, so please don't think I'm singing the gospel here. Just giving my insights as a three time GW Till Monkey (don't worry, I've got a proper career now).

First up, the sales pitch. Man, that can be tricky, in theory, it's something you need to constantly adapt to the customer. The patter that works on Bob, might put Bill's back up. Whilst you might be able to pull back from the brink with Bill, Barry might simply choose to leave and shop elsewhere. And there's a knack to doing it well. Sadly not everyone can make it seem natural.

So why are they doing it? Well....it's a shop. It's their job to sell you stuff. From the GW 10 Commandments circa 2010? Tell the customer what they need, but sell them what they want. See the difference there?

Now if the salesman is doing their job at least half competently, they won't just launch into 'ZOMG NEW STUFFS YOU BUY IS NEW!'. Rather the trick is to build a rapport with you. Not 'let's go down the pub together' or anything. More just getting to know you as a Gamer. Which army are you doing? What's your current project? Are you a painter? Do you do Tournaments? That sort of stuff. Little nuggets of info which can help inform my product recommendation.

If you're a NooB, it's hand holding all the way. Helping you figure out your way of collecting your army. If you're a hoary old vet, it's getting you to tell me what you're looking for and why.

Why yes, it is easier said than done. But that's the sales person's job. To sell you stuff (recurring theme, innit).

From there, I'll push off to either serve someone else, or leave you be as the conversation dictates.

But when you come to the Till? Damn right I'm going to try to upsell. From the low key 'you ok for glues and paints', to the 'you know what might go well with that', even the classic 'White Dwarf, sir?'.

Why the upselling? Simples. It's cost effective. Done on every sale, you can add a surprising amount to your bottom line in a year.

Now of course, you can't and won't upsell to everyone. It's a nice idea, but it's just not gonna happen. But if 50% of customers buy, on average, two paint pots each? (we've all done it. We've all been thinking 'no, I'm good...oh, actually.....') Well, let's play with some numbers, shall we?

For demo purposes I always work with nice, round numbers. So let's say that averaged out over the year, I do 100 transactions, big and small, in a week. If I can average just a single pot of paint per transaction, what does that look like over a year?

Well, GW retail price is £2.55 per pot. In a week, that's a potential £255 in the Till. Over a year? £13,260.00. That's not small change - even though each pot is, in relative terms, small change. To a GW store, that extra pot per customer is the difference between hitting and missing your monthly target. For a FLGS - in all seriousness it could be the difference between the store being a viable business, or the somewhat less melodramatic 'owner can actually afford a vacation this year!'.

And that's why it's done. Now I know it's not for everyone. And this isn't me doing a Geldof and telling you give them your munneh. At the end of the day it's your money to spend or not as you damned well see fit.

But hopefully I've shone enough of a light on the why's and wherefores for you to not take umbrage at the poor sod doing their job

All comment and criticism welcome. Just, don't ask me what the other 9 Commandments are. That was 7 years ago (nearly to the day now I think about it) so they're long relegated to the 'no longer relevant, delete whenevs' bucket in my brain

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

Good points, Mad Doc.

Recalling my days in mall retail (ugh!) there was the dreaded UPT, or Units Per Transaction, and our store's goal was a minimum UPT of 2. Which meant that you had to try and up-sell anyone coming to the cash register with only 1 item. Often an up-sell was easy (my store's equivalent to a paint pot would have been a band sticker or button [badge for you UK folks]) since those items were under $3, but sometimes you couldn't get a customer to budge on their single item purchase. The problem was the UPTs were tracked by employee, and factored into your reviews. So if you weren't pushing extra product you would get slammed on performance evaluations. So up-selling was super important.

The trick was knowing the various customer "types" which frequented the store enough to generalize how and what to try and up-sell them with, but more importantly, how and what level of customer service to offer them.

If the customer was an adult buying something for a kid (pre-teens and teens were our target demo), it was usually easier to up-sell because you knew 1) the adult likely had deeper pockets than a younger customer, and 2) they were likely shopping for a gift and suggestions for pairing something with the original item they picked out were often welcome. The adult customers often needed more "hand holding" as they were often unfamiliar with our products and were shopping for someone else which provided great opportunities to expand a sale.

"Hey, you are buying a shirt for band X, would you like to see any of the stickers we have for them? We also got a cool new belt with their logo on the buckle that just came in!" Boom, easy up-sell. You might sell the shirt, the sticker, and a belt, and turn a $18.99 sale into a $50+ sale.

If the customer was younger, it often meant they were on a budget. Maybe they only had $20 on them and the $16.99 t-shirt was going to eat up all of the after tax, so you try and up-sell a button, but you don't pester them with other options, especially more expensive options (like a belt, or hand bag, or wallet).

In my opinion that is what makes a strong customer service representative-- being able to determine the needs of the customers before becoming an annoyance.

Having been on both sides of the customer service counter, it is the people who don't pick up on verbal or visual cues that tend to be the problem. If the salesperson doesn't take your "I'm fine, thanks, just browsing" as a polite "feth off" they become an unbearable leech. Same too if you come in to pick up a few small items and they are trying to sell you something way over your budget (come in for a box of troops and try to get an Army box pushed on you). That kind of high pressure sales pitch is annoying. For everyone involved. I hated being that kind of salesperson, and mainly had to do it when a manager was nearby, but as a customer I no longer have patience for that sort of customer service and will walk out if pressured too much.



   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Oh indeed. Being able to read body language is important if you want to be good at it

Given the lack of replies, I'd like to clarify this isn't 'engage with the sales staff or you're worse than Hitler' drivel.

It's just food for thought from someone that's been at the sharp end of the industry. If you take anything from this, I hope it's 'no need to be rude to the dude, they're just doing their job'.

If you've got feedback for the staffer, why not sent a polite, constructive letter/email to the owner or manager, explaining your discomfort. Should be more effective than having a go at the staffer when your temper is frayed

And in particular, if you frequent a FLGS, perhaps be a bit more receptive to upselling at the Till

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/19 09:06:08


   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Shops that try and upsell me things are shops I rarely go back to,

leave me alone and let me browse, I'm grown up enough to come and ask you for help


 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii






As a newer GW gamer (only a few games of 8th) I've appreciated the sales patter. It might be the line between "Ooh that looks cool" and "That would work well for my army".

Now having a fella following me around trying to sell things would get on my nerves but it's their job to sell. And if they can give a good reason on why that box is good for me then I'm more likely to buy. Upselling can be irritating but if I forget I wanted a colour and "Did you need any paints?" could help too.

The guy at Warhammer World that went "Command Squad!" made me chuckle as well. I like when salespeople enjoy what they're selling.

 
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Shops that try and upsell me things are shops I rarely go back to,

leave me alone and let me browse, I'm grown up enough to come and ask you for help

I think in this instance upselling is being used to mean at the cashier while the sale is already happening (not hounding for sales while browsing). To be honest, for small items I actually like to be offered the upsell at point of payment. It's easy to forget you are running low on glues or whatever.

   
Made in us
Blackclad Wayfarer





Philadelphia

I buy $20-30 worth of paints/glue once a month from my FLGS of 4-5 years.

I pick up a box of two of models a month as well. It's extremely rare they try and sell me anything - mostly just a nice reminder of "hey are you good on glue/and so on" the once a week I wander over.

I noticed a few local stores near me thats more MTG oriented RARELY has any aggressive sales tactics in comparison to pure Warming Stores / GW.

   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

I always loathe the upsell. It makes the entire exchange feel cheap. Instead of feeling like I'm supporting a friend and neighbor, I feel like I'm leaving money on the dresser for a hooker.

I'm in sales, and try to avoid the cold upsell. If I'm going to try to get them to buy something additional at the end (I sell appliances, so that's usually a warranty, new hoses, that sort of thing) I'll try to seed that idea earlier in the conversation, that way it seems a little more natural when I bring it up later.

I think I'm luckier than a salesman in a games store, though. If someone comes into my department, they already want something. My only job is figuring out what they want and if I can sell it to them at a price they can afford.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I'd disagree.

Anyone walking into a Games Store is likely to be there to spend some money. New peeps? Intro game, ideally a starter set (easy enough really). People in for a game? Maybe a pot of glue or paint. It's all money in the Till at the end of the day.

   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

Maybe it's a regional thing. Here (American Midwest) it's not uncommon for people to go to the game store just to hang out. Their friends are there, there's nothing to do in their town, or it's just a cool place to hang and check out RPG books. They don't just have no intention of spending any money; they have no money to spend.

That might be a difference between FLGSs and actual GW stores too, of course.

Or maybe my experience is totally weird.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/20 05:44:55


Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
All comment and criticism welcome. Just, don't ask me what the other 9 Commandments are. That was 7 years ago (nearly to the day now I think about it) so they're long relegated to the 'no longer relevant, delete whenevs' bucket in my brain


My issue with GW staff is that they are always, everywhere I go, poor salesmen.

The first thing you learn in sales is when to -shut your damned mouth-. When I, as a customer, say "I'm here for one specific thing I saw online, and it's this" or something to that effect-and decline at least five of your pitches- then it's time to shut your damned mouth.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Anyone walking into a Games Store is likely to be there to spend some money.


Not true at all in the US. In-store gaming is a regular thing, and there are lots of times when I'll be in on X-Wing night just to play some games and have no interest in buying anything because I've already bought all I need. Trying persistently to sell me something is just going to make it more likely that I get annoyed and take my money elsewhere when the next wave is released and I buy a bunch of stuff all at once. But I don't know, maybe this is different in the UK because non-store gaming clubs are more common and there's less reason to go into a store at all if you aren't there to buy something.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/20 06:25:11


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






 Jimsolo wrote:

I think I'm luckier than a salesman in a games store, though. If someone comes into my department, they already want something. My only job is figuring out what they want and if I can sell it to them at a price they can afford.
.. This is heart of sales - you figure out where the customer is now, where they want be and offer them something which bridges the gap.

Most GW staff that I've encountered are rubbish at this.
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest





 Scott-S6 wrote:
 Jimsolo wrote:

I think I'm luckier than a salesman in a games store, though. If someone comes into my department, they already want something. My only job is figuring out what they want and if I can sell it to them at a price they can afford.
.. This is heart of sales - you figure out where the customer is now, where they want be and offer them something which bridges the gap.

Most GW staff that I've encountered are rubbish at this.


Retail sales in general is hit and miss because it's such low-level work, and GW compounds that by often hiring people with poor social skills. It's not necessarily their fault, and I've also met tons of GW staff who were good guys and perfectly capable human beings, but there's a higher than ordinary proportion of people who are poorly socialised simply because that's the demographic which thinks "I want to work for Games Workshop" especially given the poor pay, hours etc. The company then tells those people how to sell - often a case of the blind leading the blind since many managers are equally poor at it - and you end up with the overly-attentive employee following you around pushing product in a desperate attempt to make a sale.

On the other hand, they're rarely as shameless as e.g. double-glazing salesmen like the one who kept trying to hard sell even when I said "there is literally nothing you can do to make me sign anything today, I do not have the money to pay for it."



“Do not ask me to approach the battle meekly, to creep through the shadows, or to quietly slip on my foes in the dark. I am Rogal Dorn, Imperial Fist, Space Marine, Emperor’s Champion. Let my enemies cower at my advance and tremble at the sight of me.”
-Rogal Dorn
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I've got no problem with someone trying to sell me something in a shop. What I have a problem with is tone-deaf sales people who go through some pre-determined spiel with every single customer regardless of the purpose of their visit.

This is where most GW employees fail, IMO. I get that their job is to sell but, as others have pointed out, they're generally not very good at it. It's such a universal constant of GW stores that I'm forced to conclude it's actually a corporate culture thing and not just me being unlucky.

In the UK there's a video game chain called Game who are very similar. They will go through a corporate script with every customer to the point where it feels like they're not even paying attention to you. I used to work in retail and I know for a fact that's the worst way to sell but it's the easiest way to train a bunch of minimum wage part-timers, which is why it's so common.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






 Corrode wrote:
On the other hand, they're rarely as shameless as e.g. double-glazing salesmen like the one who kept trying to hard sell even when I said "there is literally nothing you can do to make me sign anything today, I do not have the money to pay for it."


There's the urban legend of the pushy conservatory salesman I've heard a few times. Eventually, the customer relents and agrees to schedule a home visit; "my address? Yes, it's flat 2, third floor, ..."
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

The first thing you learn in sales is when to -shut your damned mouth-.
.


No it isn't.

It isn't even the twentieth.

Using silence in a sales pitch is something that's incredibly powerful but also incredibly difficult to execute, pick the wrong moment, or the wrong customer, and it'll bring the whole thing to a crashing, awkward, embarrassing halt and likely torpedo the whole process. Used correctly it can close a customer very quickly indeed.

The first thing you learn is that no matter how nice you are to customers while doing your job, some of them are just grouchy arseholes that you'll never win with.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I think I see where he's coming from.

Some customers just aren't interested in your patter, no matter how good you are.

In those cases, knowing a lost cause and acting accordingly is a good thing to know.

Now I've been online for a long old time. I can recall Internet Hardmen making all sorts of claims, including 'I just give the a snort of derision'. There, if I was still a Till Monkey, I'd draw the line. If you can't respect that I'm there to do a job, well you can just GTFO of my store. But as a sales person, part of my job is to not antagonise people to that degree.

And I've been on the receiving end of poor salesmanship. The employee that won't leave you be. The one that keeps suggesting stuff I'm clearly not fussed for, or have already confirmed 'no, I've got Magnus already' type stuff. At that point, a canny salesperson will know someone who knows their own mind, and leave me be.

But conversely, and possibly perversely, if I wander into a shop and they pay me no attention? Not even an acknowledgement that I've entered the premises? I won't spend anything.

I don't expect the red carpet treatment. And I don't expect the sales people to be Psychic. But ignore me or fans over me and you're costing yourself sales

   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Azreal13 wrote:
No it isn't.

It isn't even the twentieth.

Using silence in a sales pitch is something that's incredibly powerful but also incredibly difficult to execute, pick the wrong moment, or the wrong customer, and it'll bring the whole thing to a crashing, awkward, embarrassing halt and likely torpedo the whole process. Used correctly it can close a customer very quickly indeed.

The first thing you learn is that no matter how nice you are to customers while doing your job, some of them are just grouchy arseholes that you'll never win with.


Yes, it is. Everything you're saying about sales sounds like it was written by someone who doesn't interact with actual human beings.

When someone isn't interested, or they're telling you what you're specifically interested in, you shut your damned mouth and listen- you provide said service or you end up doing what I do at most GW stores- leaving what I've selected on the counter and walking out.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

I think I see where he's coming from.

Some customers just aren't interested in your patter, no matter how good you are.


Of course.

I've lost count of the dozens, possibly hundreds, of people who have said essentially the same thing, often to my face. Most of the time it's just macho bs that they're somehow "immune" to all your tricks, essentially a mechanism to mask their insecurity that someone is going to trick them into buying something they don't need, or rip them off, and make them look foolish.

The reality is that I, and pretty much every other salesman I've worked with or taught worth their salt, can sort a genuine prospect from a time waster or a dead end as soon as they cross the threshold, body language and demeanor say an awful lot.

But then, he is right about GW staff being generally poor salespeople, they just don't offer the pay and conditions to attract better caliber staff, anyone with real ability will be able to make better money in a more pleasant environment and if you find someone with any quality in a GW, it's only a matter of time before they'll realize that and move on. Love of the hobby will only go so far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
No it isn't.

It isn't even the twentieth.

Using silence in a sales pitch is something that's incredibly powerful but also incredibly difficult to execute, pick the wrong moment, or the wrong customer, and it'll bring the whole thing to a crashing, awkward, embarrassing halt and likely torpedo the whole process. Used correctly it can close a customer very quickly indeed.

The first thing you learn is that no matter how nice you are to customers while doing your job, some of them are just grouchy arseholes that you'll never win with.


Yes, it is. Everything you're saying about sales sounds like it was written by someone who doesn't interact with actual human beings.

When someone isn't interested, or they're telling you what you're specifically interested in, you shut your damned mouth and listen- you provide said service or you end up doing what I do at most GW stores- leaving what I've selected on the counter and walking out.


20 years, or the lions share, in retail sales and management, generated millions in turnover and hundreds of thousands in profit, trained people who are still working very effectively in sales roles to this day. Dealt with both consumer and business to business level sales.

You got any experience beyond being the sort of miserable customer that gets laughed at as they strop out of the store having cut their nose off to spite their face and forgone their purchase purely because the staff member had the temerity to do their job?

Because no decent salesmen would be trying to upsell you unless they could qualify you, and if they could qualify you then it means what they're trying to sell you might actually be fething useful!


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/20 19:26:39


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Posts with Authority






I am a bigger sucker for the soft sell than the hard sell - one of my favorite examples was in Trader Joe's - where the clerk not only sold me on the product, but sold himself as well.

The hard sell will make me go elsewhere - most likely Amazon, where I don't need to deal with salespeople at all.

But someone that can see what product I am interested in, and gently direct me to a complimenting product? That's why I go to stores, and not Amazon.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I am a bigger sucker for the soft sell than the hard sell - one of my favorite examples was in Trader Joe's - where the clerk not only sold me on the product, but sold himself as well.

The hard sell will make me go elsewhere - most likely Amazon, where I don't need to deal with salespeople at all.

But someone that can see what product I am interested in, and gently direct me to a complimenting product? That's why I go to stores, and not Amazon.

The Auld Grump


Completely agree, most of the time you're not trying to convince someone to buy a product, you're trying to convince them to buy it from you. There's a thing that salespeople fall into 2 categories, hunters and farmers. You could airdrop a hunter into any location and they'd be doing great guns from day one, but you'd not want them in any location long term. Farmers may take a little while to get going, but they'll build a community and can keep a location successful and profitable for decades if they hang around. Sadly, many people embark on a career in sales thinking that being a hunter is the way salespeople ought to be, and some never lose that idea.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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 Azreal13 wrote:
I've lost count of the dozens, possibly hundreds, of people who have said essentially the same thing, often to my face. Most of the time it's just macho bs that they're somehow "immune" to all your tricks, essentially a mechanism to mask their insecurity that someone is going to trick them into buying something they don't need, or rip them off, and make them look foolish.


And I've lost count of the dozens, possibly hundreds of guys that watched Boiler Room or went to some sales seminar and walk around with the attitude that they can crack every nut and make sales to even the most resistant person.

I was a recruiter for 2 years, and at one time I was a manager at one of those very overpriced clothing stores. It's not some 'macho bs'- I don't know what you sell, but you can't forget that a reputation for a pushy salesman gets around. Some folks aren't interested in what you sell, some folks like myself have already made up their mind on what they want and all they need you to do is run the register and take my money- literally the easiest thing a sales associate can do. When a customer clearly isn't interested, shut up and ease away- "I'll be here if you need any help, all right?"

Because in all honesty, it's a lot easier just to take your phone out, swipe a few things, and just order it yourself without some neckbeard salesman trying to sell you 2 new armies when all you really wanted was a few paint pots and some bases.

I don't mind a product push. I get annoyed when a customer clearly expresses no interest in what the salesman is offering, and the salesman keeps pushing and pushing. It's not the early 1990's any more, all you have to do is Google the name of a store to find its location- and you'll get results describing the place. "Too pushy, won't back off" is the one you see on the GW stores quite a bit here in the US. I travel quite a bit, and there's a reason there's more Warhammer happening in the FLGS than there is the GW stores.

Oh, and if you push a sale too hard and convince them to buy- you get that buyer's remorse. For a recruiter, that means a kid isn't shipping to basic training and he's hiding behind his mom's apron. For a salesman working on a commission, that means your product is getting returned and you lose the sale- and the customer.

 Azreal13 wrote:


You got any experience beyond being the sort of miserable customer that gets laughed at as they strop out of the store having cut their nose off to spite their face and forgone their purchase purely because the staff member had the temerity to do their job?



Laugh all you like. You're the one that needs my money. Don't ever forget that- you're not there to provide a public service, you want my money. And all it takes is a bit of Google-fu, writing a few reviews, and your next 'sale' will be your application at a new job.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/20 19:36:13


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

So you have an issue with bad sales people?

No argument here.

No good sales person would push what was blatantly a dead end to that point in the first place. Like I said, most successful people I've worked with could size up a customer from the point of "good morning" and figure out whether they were worth spending time on or leaving to their own devices.

The flip side of that is the ignorant customer who is so paranoid about being "sold" something that they refuse all attempts at service even when they desperately need it. Less so with a GW or similar, but when you're selling complex products with many options (cars, holidays, some tech etc) it's just self defeating.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/20 19:37:57


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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 Azreal13 wrote:

No good sales person would push what was blatantly a dead end to that point in the first place. Like I said, most successful people I've worked with could size up a customer from the point of "good morning" and figure out whether they were worth spending time on or leaving to their own devices.



You keep saying 'No good salesperson', but that's that whole 'No True Scotsman'.

I'll let you in on a little secret- the 'good salesman' is far less common than the pushy guy, the prick that thinks he's the king of sales, or the guy that just lost my business.

And in a brick and mortar store, it takes a handful of those just to bury the place and turn it into a fat lady shoe store.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

I'm well aware how rare good salespeople are, my job would have been much easier were it not the case.

But the pushy guy is generally a lot less common than the clueless guy who wouldn't spot an opportunity if it slapped him in the face. They're ten a penny.

Give me a pushy guy to train to soften his approach over an idiot with no ability any day.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/20 19:43:39


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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 Azreal13 wrote:
But the pushy guy is generally a lot less common than the clueless guy who wouldn't spot an opportunity if it slapped him in the face. They're ten a penny.


You've also got to keep in mind that it's an opportunity, but it doesn't mean I want or need it. Case in point-

The GW salesman going on and on about what a great bargain the AoS boxes are. Yes, it's a fine bargain and a good deal. I don't want it. I wouldn't want it if you were offering it for half the price, or even five dollars. I don't need someone telling me how awesome it is, or convincing me I need it. Yes, I'm informed. At best, when someone says they want an AoS box, I'll point at that box. At the end of the day, I'm a person that knows exactly what I want- and I don't have the income to invest in anything outside the immediate needs and wants. The worst thing a man can be is someone who goes out, comes home with less money, and is carrying something they just heard about and didn't ever want or need until another man told him he did.

And yes, I know how it's easy to convince someone that it's such a good deal, and for them to do the ultimate contradiction and 'buy now and save'. Not buying is saving. You're spending, and you're spending money you didn't intend to.

There's a reason online sales are crushing brick and mortar sales.

The 'pitch' might work on some folks, but for me- I also am the type that likes to be left alone while he's making a purchase, and if I need something- I'll get you. And that usually means I need an order placed or a ladder.

I should tell you what sort of cloth I'm cut from- I'm military, and around our bases we've no shortage of 'slick salesmen'. We've some of the scummiest people whose entire purpose in life is to financially entrap Service Members and scam them out of every dime they have. Car sales, jewelry sales, landlords, and two dozen kiosks in the mall trained to spot and target young, single service members. We've got scams based on 'sales' around here that will give you a jar of lotion and somehow stick you with a $2000.00 bill and take you to court for not paying it.

You asked about my experience? I put together a training course on how these folks work, and what they are. I went down that rabbit hole, and I have had a bitter taste in my mouth about salespersons ever since. And to this very day, I live by the words of my father- "Don't take financial advice from someone who wants your money."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/20 20:00:22


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Again, if the salesperson indicates something that may be of interest because that is their job, and you throw your hands up and storm out, that makes you a bad customer.

If, having pointed out the thing, the salesperson continues to labour the point and drives you out of the store, bad salesperson.

If you don't want or need something, then it was never an opportunity. An opportunity is something like a customer mentioning they struggle to paint the eye lenses on their Marines as they buy a Tactical Squad and the salesperson not mentioning the brand new lens brush that just came in today.

For people with a certain (and apparently common) mindset, that sort of joined up thinking on the fly is really hard.

I should tell you what sort of cloth I'm cut from- I'm military,


No gak Sherlock. I had that pegged after about 2 posts.

and around our bases we've no shortage of 'slick salesmen'. We've some of the scummiest people whose entire purpose in life is to financially entrap Service Members and scam them out of every dime they have. Car sales, jewelry sales, landlords, and two dozen kiosks in the mall trained to spot and target young, single service members. We've got scams based on 'sales' around here that will give you a jar of lotion and somehow stick you with a $2000.00 bill and take you to court for not paying it.


There's no correlation between fraud and sales. What you're drawing there is a false equivalency between people trying to screw other people because some people are scum, and the way some people choose to earn an honest living.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/20 20:06:34


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
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I wasn't really under the impression that anyone misunderstood what/how a sales pitch works. We just don't like them (and I used to be in sales as well). I didn't need a salesman once I passed the age of perhaps 14.

I do my own research and know what I want, and what I can afford and not afford, etc. I've never once been sold something by a salesperson unless it was some crazy sale or something I didn't know was going on (i.e. "oh by the way, X is on sale 30% off to day" - "Cool, I'll take a look, thanks.").

On the flip side, I've left many a retail establishment because of poor salespeople.
   
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 Azreal13 wrote:
Again, if the salesperson indicates something that may be of interest because that is their job, and you throw your hands up and storm out, that makes you a bad customer.


Don't get me wrong, I keep it pretty polite. "No thank you, I am not interested in any of these right now, I am here to buy the XYZ. I only brought enough money for that."

(It's another old trick- never bring out more money than you intend to spend. I'm old-fashioned and cash out a portion of my pay for spending money).




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Azreal13 wrote:
There's no correlation between fraud and sales. What you're drawing there is a false equivalency between people trying to screw other people because some people are scum, and the way some people choose to earn an honest living.


Yes, and 'the fine print' and weasel-words are often viewed as principles of an 'honest living', legally speaking. The sad truth is that these aren't 'fraud', cases- they are perfectly legal swindles. Looking for honesty in these sorts of salesmen is like looking for a bride in a brothel.

You don't have to defend your career field. We both know it's full of scammers, swindlers, liars, cheats, and low-down scum. You might be an 'honest' one, but if you tell me there's a piece of chocolate under a pile of dog turds- I'm not fishing through there and tasting nuggets to find it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/20 20:34:34


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