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I'm not a very good painter so washes are all that saves my paint jobs. Looking for a dark gray that I can sub for black in order to be able to wash black. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

You are on the right track. Anything that is supposed to look black won't be actually painted black, for exactly the reason you are looking for a dark grey.

I like Vallejo's German Grey. Not because I happen to be german, but because it is a very dark grey available in most of their ranges, be it their Primer (which you can airbrush or brush on), their Game Colour range (for brushes) or Air range for the Airbrush.

Vallejo Model Color 862 Black Grey or Vallejo German Grey as per the above suggestion. I use this and it works as a black, with a few washes. Its a very good way of achieving a toned black without using any advanced painting techniques

I am lazy, so I always find the shortcuts :p

Thanks to you both. I'll order both suggested.

Citadel's mechanic is standard grey is very dark.

 Drummernathan wrote:
Citadel's mechanic is standard grey is very dark.

Dark Reaper is the darkest grey Games Workshop paint

Word of warning on German Grey: The primer is a slightly different color than the paint, at least for the pots of both I have. Still what I use for the purpose, but can be a bit of a issue if you're trying to touch things up.

I just mixed my own. But then I have plenty of spare pots.

I fancy that Vallejo Game Colour Charcoal Grey is a touch darker than German and Black Grey, but there's really not much in it.

German gray is really nice but its honestly not going to work well as a base coat for a straight black.

you could if you base coated german grey and then tinted the whole thing in a black ink maybe.

id go with Raven black from minatarie i remember it being slightly lighter than a normal black.

Desubot wrote:German gray is really nice but its honestly not going to work well as a base coat for a straight black.

you could if you base coated german grey and then tinted the whole thing in a black ink maybe.

crimsondave wrote:I'm not a very good painter so washes are all that saves my paint jobs. Looking for a dark gray that I can sub for black in order to be able to wash black. [ Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 sockwithaticket wrote:

Desubot wrote:German gray is really nice but its honestly not going to work well as a base coat for a straight black.

you could if you base coated german grey and then tinted the whole thing in a black ink maybe.

crimsondave wrote:I'm not a very good painter so washes are all that saves my paint jobs. Looking for a dark gray that I can sub for black in order to be able to wash black. [ Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Was making the assumption he is talking about GW nurn oil which wont be able to darken up the grey to the point it like black armor.

 Desubot wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:

Desubot wrote:German gray is really nice but its honestly not going to work well as a base coat for a straight black.

you could if you base coated german grey and then tinted the whole thing in a black ink maybe.

crimsondave wrote:I'm not a very good painter so washes are all that saves my paint jobs. Looking for a dark gray that I can sub for black in order to be able to wash black. [ Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Was making the assumption he is talking about GW nurn oil which wont be able to darken up the grey to the point it like black armor.

Admittedly I use Army Painter Dark Tone these days, but I don't see how Nuln Oil wouldn't be up to the task if applied in sufficient quantities? Can always go back for a second pass or more as necessary.

 sockwithaticket wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:

Desubot wrote:German gray is really nice but its honestly not going to work well as a base coat for a straight black.

you could if you base coated german grey and then tinted the whole thing in a black ink maybe.

crimsondave wrote:I'm not a very good painter so washes are all that saves my paint jobs. Looking for a dark gray that I can sub for black in order to be able to wash black. [ Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Was making the assumption he is talking about GW nurn oil which wont be able to darken up the grey to the point it like black armor.

Admittedly I use Army Painter Dark Tone these days, but I don't see how Nuln Oil wouldn't be up to the task if applied in sufficient quantities? Can always go back for a second pass or more as necessary.

Or just mix the G Grey with black to get a darker tone first. honestly german grey is one of the best grey colors

very very nice for highlighting black anyway.

 Desubot wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:

Desubot wrote:German gray is really nice but its honestly not going to work well as a base coat for a straight black.

you could if you base coated german grey and then tinted the whole thing in a black ink maybe.

crimsondave wrote:I'm not a very good painter so washes are all that saves my paint jobs. Looking for a dark gray that I can sub for black in order to be able to wash black. [ Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Was making the assumption he is talking about GW nurn oil which wont be able to darken up the grey to the point it like black armor.

Admittedly I use Army Painter Dark Tone these days, but I don't see how Nuln Oil wouldn't be up to the task if applied in sufficient quantities? Can always go back for a second pass or more as necessary.

Or just mix the G Grey with black to get a darker tone first. honestly german grey is one of the best grey colors

very very nice for highlighting black anyway.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I'd always advocate mixing over relying on a wash, but the OP seems to want the latter.

I use German Grey to highlight my Deathwatch. Love it.

 sockwithaticket wrote:
I fancy that Vallejo Game Colour Charcoal Grey is a touch darker than German and Black Grey, but there's really not much in it.

The VGC 'Heavy' colors are just relabeled VMC paints. In the case of Heavy Charcoal, it's VMC Black.

Skavenblight dinge - I sue that color quite a lot.

I use Delta Cermacote Charcoal. It's one of the few craft paints I still use, but it's a great very dark grey. Through some blank over it, and it's black.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Skavenblight dinge - I sue that color quite a lot.

Why would you take legal action against a paint?

It KNOWS what it did!

(I'm sorry, but that straight line is just too good to skip...)

 Rolsheen wrote:

 Drummernathan wrote:
Citadel's mechanic is standard grey is very dark.

Dark Reaper is the darkest grey Games Workshop paint

True but I feel it has a bit much of a "purple" tint to it.
For a PURE dark grey I usually do 1:1 of abbaddon black to Mechanicus standard grey.

 Desubot wrote:

Was making the assumption he is talking about GW nurn oil which wont be able to darken up the grey to the point it like black armor.

Charadon Granite used to be awesome for this. Still haven't found a good substitute.

Skavenblight dinge is okay. Vallejo heavy charcoal is a full shade lighter. Panzer dark grey is okay but slightly blue.

These are nuln oil over skavenblight dinge.


These are nuln oil over charadon granite.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:

The VGC 'Heavy' colors are just relabeled VMC paints. In the case of Heavy Charcoal, it's VMC Black.

If that's correct then VMC's naming makes little sense. Heavy charcoal is nowhere near dark enough to be called black.

The guns are (left to right) heavy charcoal, charadon granite, skavenblight dinge.

Heavy charcoal is NOT VMC black.

Possibly black-grey. Vallejo have a ridiculous number of dark greys.

winterdyne wrote:
Heavy charcoal is NOT VMC black.

Possibly black-grey. Vallejo have a ridiculous number of dark greys.

According to Valleo's Equivalent Values document, VMC 70.950 Black is their equivalent for Heavy Charcoal. According to their FAQ they should be the same paint.

I use both frequently (actually on pretty much anything that has any black or dark grey on it at all). I have both on my desk at work. I'll take a pic tomorrow, but the heavy charcoal is not even close to VMC (70.950) black. It's a little warmer than German Grey (slightly blue-greenish). I think it's bang on to what VMC black-grey (70.862) was (I use the Charcoal now, not sure if I have any black-grey kicking around).

That equivalency table is most definitely wrong - it's also nowhere close to Charadon Granite as they claim - the Charadon Granite is much browner.

Takeaway nugget: Don't trust equivalency tables. If you want to be sure to match a colour, take it with you to a shop and buy the paint.

winterdyne wrote:

That equivalency table is most definitely wrong - it's also nowhere close to Charadon Granite as they claim - the Charadon Granite is much browner.

100% correct.

I use VGC heavy charcoal, I agree that it's definitely not black, but it works great with GW Nuln Oil to do exactly what the OP is seeking, after which you'll want some sort of highlight though ideally.

Nuln oil is OK (fast, simple and very convenient), but VMC (the aforementioned 70.950) black thinned and with a bit of glaze medium is godlike for shading black.

I use all Army painter paint, but I did order the 2 Vallejo colors suggested. By pure coincidence, the only non army painter paint I have is a unopened pot of skavenblight dings I was gonna use to weather my tanks. I'll test it as well.

 Polonius wrote:
I use Delta Cermacote Charcoal. It's one of the few craft paints I still use, but it's a great very dark grey. Through some blank over it, and it's black.

+1 for this. I use this with a Payne's Grey glaze whenever I need to paint something black.