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I believe the current character rule is a little broken.

Not so much that it's broken but that it allows the game to be played in a way that isn't exactly as fluffy and true to realism as it could be.

The use that units such as a daemon prince, RobG, and especially commissars not being able to be targeted expect but a sniper is a little crazy.


They should change it to were it is a -1 or -2 to hit (issue with -2 would be nknocking some armies from be able to shoot them aka orks).
But I seriously think it should work like this and then allow sniper rule models to ignore the modifier.

That way people won't just take a bunch of buffing characters and be able to sit their entire army around them. Since the ability for any unit to get a 'lucky' shot at the character would be something to consider when placing you units around.

This would help make units like the commissar which is fundamental to conscripts be targeted way more often than they are now. And would also stop the inconsistency of having large models hiding behind small models like a warboss behind grotz.

Fixes the problem while keeping it simple and effective.

First off this should probably be in the Proposed Rules section.

Secondly you could formerly hide characters (well outside MCs that is) inside units making them somewhat unkillable outside of challenges. I think the current rule makes them more vulnerable without making them stupidly vulnerable.

Personally I think units classed as Monster or Vehicle should never benefit from the Character rule when targeting them. Or should have your proposed -1 to hit unless they are the closest model.

Look for the W10+ part of the characters rule, at the bottom. Anyone can target them, so "units such as a daemon prince, RobG," are already a sore thumb on the battlefield.

 Skinnereal wrote:
Look for the W10+ part of the characters rule, at the bottom. Anyone can target them, so "units such as a daemon prince, RobG," are already a sore thumb on the battlefield.

Well, Robbie G and a Daemon Prince both have less than W10.

 Weazel wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
Look for the W10+ part of the characters rule, at the bottom. Anyone can target them, so "units such as a daemon prince, RobG," are already a sore thumb on the battlefield.

Well, Robbie G and a Daemon Prince both have less than W10.

Because if they had 10 wounds they wouldn't make it past the 1st turn.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
Look for the W10+ part of the characters rule, at the bottom. Anyone can target them, so "units such as a daemon prince, RobG," are already a sore thumb on the battlefield.

Well, Robbie G and a Daemon Prince both have less than W10.

Because if they had 10 wounds they wouldn't make it past the 1st turn.

Indeed, but my point is they are not "a sore thumb on the battlefield", because you cannot single them out.

RobG might have hidden in an infantry unit before but I don't think Daemon Princes had any ways of hiding in plain sight before (in 7th), yet somehow they can now be totally invulnerable behind a wall of knee-high nurglings... sure it's a game, it's an abstraction, it's not realistic, I get that, but I'm entitled to be annoyed by it.

It goes both ways: I don't mind you could target Bjorn or Murderfang. That would probably just mean their viability would drop dramatically.

 Weazel wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
Look for the W10+ part of the characters rule, at the bottom. Anyone can target them, so "units such as a daemon prince, RobG," are already a sore thumb on the battlefield.

Well, Robbie G and a Daemon Prince both have less than W10.

I hadn't seen their profiles, so 'oops'.

In 7th Deamon princes use to fly high to not get shot or hide in ruins now they can't do that now
So this rule is why they don't auto die

That is the point of this proposed hit modifier is that you can target them with any unit. Albeit with a negative to hit, and then it would show the difficulty of an untrained model hitting a single model at distance.

Maybe make it:
-3 over 48 inches
-2 over 24
-1 any distance over 6 inches or something similar.
Sniper keyword units disregard this negative modifier.

shank911 wrote:
That is the point of this proposed hit modifier is that you can target them with any unit. Albeit with a negative to hit, and then it would show the difficulty of an untrained model hitting a single model at distance.

Maybe make it:
-3 over 48 inches
-2 over 24
-1 any distance over 6 inches or something similar.
Sniper keyword units disregard this negative modifier.

If talking about realism then why would it be any different to any other human bodies running around at over 24/48"s

 Desubot wrote:

shank911 wrote:
That is the point of this proposed hit modifier is that you can target them with any unit. Albeit with a negative to hit, and then it would show the difficulty of an untrained model hitting a single model at distance.

Maybe make it:
-3 over 48 inches
-2 over 24
-1 any distance over 6 inches or something similar.
Sniper keyword units disregard this negative modifier.

If talking about realism then why would it be any different to any other human bodies running around at over 24/48"s

Well it's still a game, but this is more realistic than a sniper having to hit a 1 in 6* chance to do a wound. Since most people rely on the mortal wound*
But more than that, it is game breaking being able to hide character than can buff a significant amount of models and not be able to do anything about it.

The other way of fixing this would be changing auras to all wholly within for units or choose one unit within 6 inches. This would need RoboGs buff, the SM reroll 1 hit/wound characters, commissars would be the same for conscripts and daemon princes and such would be unchanged.

So a hit modifier fixes more than just the aura-turtling army build, which is what the current edition is quickly becoming.

shank911 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

shank911 wrote:
That is the point of this proposed hit modifier is that you can target them with any unit. Albeit with a negative to hit, and then it would show the difficulty of an untrained model hitting a single model at distance.

Maybe make it:
-3 over 48 inches
-2 over 24
-1 any distance over 6 inches or something similar.
Sniper keyword units disregard this negative modifier.

If talking about realism then why would it be any different to any other human bodies running around at over 24/48"s

Well it's still a game, but this is more realistic than a sniper having to hit a 1 in 6* chance to do a wound. Since most people rely on the mortal wound*
But more than that, it is game breaking being able to hide character than can buff a significant amount of models and not be able to do anything about it.

The other way of fixing this would be changing auras to all wholly within for units or choose one unit within 6 inches. This would need RoboGs buff, the SM reroll 1 hit/wound characters, commissars would be the same for conscripts and daemon princes and such would be unchanged.

So a hit modifier fixes more than just the aura-turtling army build, which is what the current edition is quickly becoming.

Snipers are already non realistic in the game as it is. you could certainly just call them marksmen but they are absolutely not "snipers" the closest is the vindicare and he would be a terrible sniper IRL.

Wholly within nerf would be impossible for pretty much EVERY army. making characters worthless. you try to pile in a 5 or 10 man terminator squad into combat and keep a chaplain buff on them.

The only change I think is so is make it closest legal target so you can ignore units you can't see or that are in hand to hand

Oldmike wrote:
The only change I think is so is make it closest legal target so you can ignore units you can't see or that are in hand to hand

Half that already exists. The character has to be the closest VISIBLE enemy unit, so you already ignore units you can't see.

 Desubot wrote:

shank911 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

shank911 wrote:
That is the point of this proposed hit modifier is that you can target them with any unit. Albeit with a negative to hit, and then it would show the difficulty of an untrained model hitting a single model at distance.

Maybe make it:
-3 over 48 inches
-2 over 24
-1 any distance over 6 inches or something similar.
Sniper keyword units disregard this negative modifier.

If talking about realism then why would it be any different to any other human bodies running around at over 24/48"s

Well it's still a game, but this is more realistic than a sniper having to hit a 1 in 6* chance to do a wound. Since most people rely on the mortal wound*
But more than that, it is game breaking being able to hide character than can buff a significant amount of models and not be able to do anything about it.

The other way of fixing this would be changing auras to all wholly within for units or choose one unit within 6 inches. This would need RoboGs buff, the SM reroll 1 hit/wound characters, commissars would be the same for conscripts and daemon princes and such would be unchanged.

So a hit modifier fixes more than just the aura-turtling army build, which is what the current edition is quickly becoming.

Snipers are already non realistic in the game as it is. you could certainly just call them marksmen but they are absolutely not "snipers" the closest is the vindicare and he would be a terrible sniper IRL.

Wholly within nerf would be impossible for pretty much EVERY army. making characters worthless. you try to pile in a 5 or 10 man terminator squad into combat and keep a chaplain buff on them.

Which would leave the one unit within 6 inches.
Thus making buff a require some strategy for use and not just a blatant everyone get a this, which is the current problem with the SM characters.

But allowing characters to be targeted with a modifier would allow people the option of more targets to shoot at and therefore requiring more thought for target priority. While not truly debuffing the buff a characters give, but wouldn't make RoboG and such a near requirement to run.

I brought up realism for the basic idea, the game will never been truly realistic. But there is no reason why it couldn't be more real than it is now with such a simple change.

This is nothing new, if you are an imperium player and want a character dead, take a vindicare