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Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

part of me really wants to run squiggoths along side the new rigs and squigriders just for thematic reasons.
Even though i seriously have 0 reason to run a squiggoth lol. They arent as bad as they used to be for the points but still pretty pathetic (my poor gargsquig is totally worthless atm)

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
gungo wrote:
The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.

And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…

So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.


I don't think any of those are a big problem. All of our units are ld 6 or 7 now, so just few casualties to units like warbikers, MANz, koptas or squig riders can easily cause to lose additional expensive multi-wound models. When facing enemies with LD reduction you could even be losing whole buggies to morale. For example DG have a stratagem that give a unit -4 to ld when a terminator kills one of their members, this could easily make you fail your test.
For these situations, breakin' heads is actually very, very good and almost a no-brainer to use. Sadly, it still requires a warboss or unit of nobz to be nearby, so the times when you are actually allowed to use the stratagem when you need it is a way bigger problem than how mediocre it is for single-wound units.

Ld reduction rarely matter to breaking heads… you fail morale regardless breaking heads doesn’t prevent that only instill bravery. Once you fail morale you lose a model regardless breaking heads doesn’t prevent that either… breaking heads only limits attrition loss usually 1 model. So at this point you are losing 2 models (not including what you just lost to trigger a morale test in the first place… (at minimum 3 now).. if you stay at 3-5 models you are mostly fine, benefit from mob rule, and rarely get into a situation where breaking eads is worth using 2cp to save 1 additional model isnt worth it. I mean you are correct those are the main units to benefit once you use insane bravery but you would have to put yourself at squads of 5+ Warbikers, manz, koptas, squig riders and be within 6in of a warboss or nob for this to matter and people are avoiding that because it’s a massive liability.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 15:08:14


 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






On Ghaz, has anyone considered just throwing him in a wagon and using the tellyporta+ramming speed. I realize it's dumb but it certainly seems to remove the entire issue of him waddling up the battlefield. He's just there turn two doing in the middle of the enemy DZ. You could even throw in a warboss or two.

I mean, it's silly, and I know you're going to tell me I'm wrong, but it sounds fun enough to try it at least once for a laugh if you have the model.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 the_scotsman wrote:

Tellyporta - 2CP same as always. You can tellyporta any unit you want except Monsters and 20PR+

It's strange that this is one of your top picks to me. Honestly, deep strike now feels so dubious in so many situations given the nature of the micro-board you basically feel like you almost dont get anything out of it at all besides shittier charge rolls. The combo with ramming speed is there, but it is a 4CP combo...


I'm thinking specifically about the Big ead Bunka and using it teamed with tankbustas/flashgitz to maximize dmg potential. The head stops the units inside from 1: being hurt, 2: moving. Add to that, its got really good SHORT range guns which makes it an ideal target for deep striking since you need it near the enemy, and the fact that in turn 2 if the enemy is pushing hard in a zone for board control or objectives you can pull a ghazghkull thraka and drop ROKz from space onto their heads Its a beautiful combination of fluffy, fun and competitive.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Orkz is Never Beaten - 2CP NERF This now lets a character fight if they hadnt this turn, it used to allow the character to fight twice if it died after swinging.

Well, yeah. This was always going to do this after SM had the exact same strat changed.
Yep, but its especially bad for Orkz since our CC characters don't really do much to buff orkz except in CC. So if they don't do their dmg in CC they usually aren't helping us much.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Cloud of Smoke - 2CP If you are running big groups of speed freakz this is a must use strat. Gives -1 to hit for all speedfreak vehicles within 6' of a selected speed freak vehicle.

Good but it is worth noting that you can also choose to just build around this by including an army of warbikes, boomdakka snazzwagons, and flyers which are all good and all get -1 to hit native. Deffcoptas are really the only must-use unit for this strat and if you're running evil sunz for your freek list, theyre a great candidate for the jsj spell instead to get a big unit jumping out and jumping back behind Obscuring. Food for thought.
I can see this used especially turn 1 to negate the enemies alpha strike shooting. a -1 to hit teamed with our Ramshackle should make our vehicles somewhat durable at least.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Situational:
Careen - 1/2CP If you blow up, move 6' towards your opponent before blowing up.

If by "Situational" you mean "Every time I roll for my vehicle to explode, ever" then yeah. It's free mortal wound-estate!
Situational because it does not cause an auto-explosion. So if you have 6 vehicles in the game, you likely will have 1 explode and depending on where it explodes will also influence whether you use this strat or not. That is why its "situational" instead of good or competitive.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Former ability:
Gun Crazy Show Offs - 2CP Old Flashgitz ability...this is honestly better because it guarantees the second round of shooting, its expensive though.

2CP for a shoot twice is absolutely not too expensive on a unit as powerful as flash gits. I've only run my shooty list once, but this strat was absolutely INSANE basically throughout the game. I left my gits til last as I wanted to get them up to +2 to hit and once I got them there they absolutely deleted a pair of expensive squads for just a couple CP. This is miles better than the old ability which was so unreliable as to never be able to be planned around.
Its not a bad strat, and if you lean into Flashgitz I can see it used probably 2-3 turns in that game, but it doesn't synergize well with the playstyle for those Flashgitz. Primarily because to use it you need to have them out in the open as opposed to hiding in a vehicle. And Flashgitz in the open are juicy targets so if they do go out of their vehicle they will be hard pressed to live longer than 1 turn.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Tank Busta Bomb - 1CP They took away our Tank Busta bombs and turned it into a strat that lets 1 model in a unit use a single attack in CC to do 2D3 mortal wounds if it hits. Its not terrible for 1CP but compared to what we used to do with Tank busta bombs (grenade strat and 10D3 Rokkitz) its kind of crap.

Werent old TBBs 1 in 10 models though? How did you get to 10d3 rokkit shots, ever? The way I see it this strat is great for adding threat to min size boyz squads, which are absolutely the new way to run basically any ork unit you're not planning on dumping strats into, and boyz 100% qualify.
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some

 the_scotsman wrote:
Grot Shields - 2CP Similar to old grot shields except only works with 1 unit of grotz. Adding to that, its too expensive and the grots themselves are too expensive. I don't see Orkz fielding any infantry units big/expensive enough to justify the use of a 50-100pt sacrificial unit.

I mean I can only speak for myself but I made fantastic use out of it in my freebootas test run game. Included a couple 20-man units of grots in my list as objective holders/action doers and used GS to protect my Flash Gitz from enemy fire top of 1 and top of 2.
Can only be used on 1 unit of grotz a turn, Grots are T3 7+ save, it takes on average 30 bolter hits to kill a unit of 20 grots, and worse, after they are dead the unit behind is exposed so you lost 100pts just to guarantee your opponent killed the grots first. Situational at best, but for 2CP it should do a lot more than just merely kill the grots instead of your kommandos.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.

I mean it sucks that they took an ability away and gave it back but 1cp to reroll 1 die of a charge roll doesnt sound all that bad. Sometimes you roll a 6 and a 1 and you needed an 8 to get in.
Same thing as mentioned above, why spend 1 CP to reroll 1 die when you could just spend 2 CP and use ramming speed on them and almost guarantee them their charge. Especially with the 3D6 charge you have a much better chance of getting into a position where you can tag multiple units. And also, its limited to 3 models in our army now which is just sad :(

 the_scotsman wrote:
Ground Shaker Shells - 1CP If you hit a unit with a lobba you can halve their movement next turn and -2 to advance and charge. so incredibly situational that it likely wont be used much at all.

only problem I have with it is its YET ANOTHER fething beast snaggaz only fething stratagem. But if I was including one of those dumb kill rigs, which I am not as I am not out here about to support GW's obnoxious tendency to write entire codexes to shove whatever new release wave they've just put out, I'd use it every turn most games.Unless my opponent has absolutely no units that want to move, at all, it seems highly worthwhile to use.
Meh, D6 shots on a BS5+ unit. You are going to have turns where you aren't even able to use this strat, and even than you only impact 1 unit. Maybe on big expensive CC units or maybe ultra fast Shooting units, but that is it. Maybe move it to situational.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Force Field Boosta - 2CP Former Ability as well, Gain a 5++ for 1 turn on a 9' bubble and than it blows up and you can't use it ever again. If it was relic yes, if it didn't blow up and could be used multiple times per game and was 1Cp...yes, this? No.

If I was using a KFF unit I feel like I'd end up using this tbh. I'd need to be in a situation where including a KFF was just a 30-point bump on my list, as in, I'm including a Morkanaut or a Megamek with the ded shiny shoota, but then I can easily see with the firepower present in 9th ed this being a highly effective use of 2cp and 30pts.


Too much for me. 2CP to blow up a 30pt gear upgrade is just silly to me. They could have made this work and made it competitive or at least good by changing the costs around a bit but instead they hamfisted every aspect of it. 1: its nerfed in its initial ability to be a 6+...who fething cares. 2: they jacked up the price of the stupid thing to 30pts for the upgrade and 3: they make you pay CP to blow it up. I would actually be on board with blowing it up, even at 30pts as an upgrade EVEN with spending 2CP if it was a 4++ instead of a 5++. But this is just too crap to ever really use.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




XC18 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

Hot garbage:

Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.


...utter crap ? I would say a good/situational stratagem (unless you think the old version of ere we go was utter crap)
The stupid part is that we had it for free and now we have to pay for it, but that's not the same.

I wouldn't worry too much about strat, I guess we will get our share of new strats when new books hit the shelves. (Octarius?)


Its utter crap because its a former ability that they took from us and turned into a 1 CP stratagem that only works on 3 units, and realistically...you won't be using this because why spend 1CP to reroll 1 dice when you can spend 2 CP to Ramming speed, have a better chance of getting the charge off AND doing mortal wounds on a 2+?

 koooaei wrote:

For me, best starts are: forcefield boosta, -1 to hit and careen. Will very unlikely use much else cause of cp spent on extra traits, relics and an outside detach


Spending 2CP to blow up your own KFF is a bit absurd to me. Add to that the fact that the KFF strat makes it a better version of the 8th edition KFF and you are left with a bad taste in your mouth from the garbage GW pushed on us.

 xttz wrote:

Spoiler:
Gonna jump on this as I think while it's still situational, this stratagem will be more useful than anyone has given it credit for.

It's used after rolling the morale test, which means unlike Insane Bravery you get at least 1 in 6 (possibly higher) opportunity to not spend any CP at all. The core stratagem must be used before finding out if you need to and can only be done once per game, making it a risk to use up front in times when you're likely to pass morale.

If you do fail the morale test then you will lose 1 Ork plus any that fail the combat attrition test. By using Breakin' Heads at this point there's a 1 in 3 chance of being no worse off aside from the CP cost. You always lose a minimum of 1 model anyway, while the stratagem can cost 1, 2, or 3 wounds.

Statistically average CA rolls mean the following:
6 models = 1+1 models lost
12 models = 1+2 models lost
18 models = 1+3 models lost
24 models = 1+4 models lost

So it takes a failed morale check on a unit size larger than 12 before you 'break even' with the worst-case D3 roll from Breakin' Heads. In the most common scenario, the main use for the stratagem will be as a hedge against bad attrition rolls and/or when those rolls can cause you to lose critical mass in a mob. Perhaps a few extra models will ensure winning an prolonged melee, or guarantee you hold a contested objective in the late game. Situational, sure. So why should I dedicate my limited Orky brainspace to remembering this rule exists?

Firstly it inflicts wounds rather than dead models. So after failing a morale test on a multi-wound unit of Squighogs, Warbikes, or Meganobz you're looking at one guaranteed model gone, possibly plus others with some poor luck on CA rolls. Or you can take D3 wounds and have decent chance at not losing any models at all.

On top of this you'd almost definitely want to use Breakin' Heads when an important unit is facing modifiers to combat attrition tests:

With just a -1 modifier you're likely looking at:
6 models = 1+2 models lost
12 models = 1+4 models lost
18 models = 1+6 models lost
24 models = 1+8 models lost

Of course that's just for an average roll, it could well be much worse. I don't think there's anyone reading this who has never managed to roll a majority of 1's and 2's at a critical time.

In a worst-case scenario you can even be looking at -2 or -3 modifiers if nothing is around to grant Mob Rule. Several factions already have access to multiple modifiers on combat attrition tests, or can force nearby enemies to count as being below half unit strength when they're not. Drukhari can even score secondary VPs for each model that flees.

There will undoubtedly be more special rules to interact with enemy morale in future codexes & supplements. While I don't think Breakin' Heads is an auto-use option like some, it can definitely make a difference at the right moment.


Again, its a former ability that they turned into a 2CP strat. So what are the benefits here on boyz units. Here is the situation, I run 30 boy mob, I lose 6 boyz which gives me an 83% chance to fail morale. I roll to see if I fail, I fail, I then use this strat to minimize dmg. So here are the results.

On average, 24 boyz from Morale, you lose 1 to failed test, and than likely 4 more from Attrition. Total of 5 Dead Boyz.
Spend 2 CP and inflict D3 mortal wounds on yourself.

So the cost is either 5 dead boyz (45pts) OR 2 Dead boyz (18pts) and 2 CP. So is 27pts worth 2 CP to you? Would you spend 2 CP to save 3 Boyz? I wouldn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Has anyone else really paid attention to how crap our new stratagems are? I want to break them down into a few categories and I'll highlight them if they got worse between editions.


Without going in detail, that's pretty much how it is for all 9th edition codices. Stratagems no longer shape the army, which is a good thing IMO.

Of course, orks had some of the best stratagems in the game, so losing so many of them hurts, but that's how it was going to be from the start. My main gripe with them is that some are unnecessarily limited to beast snaggas and that some cool ones like da kleverest boss and the grot bumper didn't make it.


Yes this is true, but a lot of the 9th edition armies are also significantly better off than orkz are. We relied almost exclusively on boy spam and stratagems to carry the day, removing boyz spam and our best stratagems means we are hamstrung and require GW to give us a new avenue to approach competitive play, and while Snagga cavalry seems strong, i'm not sold that its going to be nearly as competitive as we were in 8th. Actually to put a finer point on it, I believe our Orkz have gone down a Tier level with this new codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 15:17:52


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon






 TedNugent wrote:
On Ghaz, has anyone considered just throwing him in a wagon and using the tellyporta+ramming speed. I realize it's dumb but it certainly seems to remove the entire issue of him waddling up the battlefield. He's just there turn two doing in the middle of the enemy DZ. You could even throw in a warboss or two.

I mean, it's silly, and I know you're going to tell me I'm wrong, but it sounds fun enough to try it at least once for a laugh if you have the model.


The big problem is that he's stuck inside the wagon until turn 3, and if it gets surrounded or destroyed before then you'll be praying not to roll that deadly 1 for emergency disembark. There's space to throw a couple of cheap characters like Makari in with him to mitigate that, but then it's costing you 4CP to have a 500pt+ pinata sitting the enemy lines for a turn.

I'm definitely gonna tellyport a red rolla Bonebreaka at some point though. Fun.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 TedNugent wrote:
On Ghaz, has anyone considered just throwing him in a wagon and using the tellyporta+ramming speed. I realize it's dumb but it certainly seems to remove the entire issue of him waddling up the battlefield. He's just there turn two doing in the middle of the enemy DZ. You could even throw in a warboss or two.

I mean, it's silly, and I know you're going to tell me I'm wrong, but it sounds fun enough to try it at least once for a laugh if you have the model.
it works it’s just the cost is prohibitive. I’m fine with ghaz being a big area denial unit and buff bot that denys your opponent the warlord VP. I can just waddle him to some mid board objective and let my opponent worry about removing him.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Isn't the most busted army in the game atm busted because theyve got a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles on the board?

Seems like, an ability that lets us have a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles oh also btw -1 to hit oh also btw -1 damage if you're <8S would be at least fairly decent.

Maybe not, maybe you're better off slapping the tellyport blasta on the ded shiny megamek but I feel like i'd get value out of that 2cp+30pts the very first melta shot I block with that 5++.

I think the buggy list has teef, and I think the buggy list is gonna be taking a kff megamek with the ded shiny shoota to hop into a trukk boyz trukk after he uses the forcefield turn 1 or turn 2.

You can use it two ways: either you've got enough obscuring turn 1 to hide all your criticals and then you can hold the 'shield formation' setup in your back pocket for weathering turn 2 firepower, or you can start bunched turn 1 and have second turn insurance in the form of the 5++/army-wide -1 to hit.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Rogerio134134 wrote:
I've not really sat down to make a list yet but I would really like to make green tide work. I don't think squads of 30 Boyz are viable anymore but smaller squads of 10-15 Boyz with a death dealing nob with big choppa/PK as goffs I think could be a go. I'm thinking of max troops spread evenly around the table and assisted by some good old fashioned threat saturation.
Some squighogs here, warbikers there and mega armoured nobz in wagons charging forward. Add in a sprinkle of ranged firepower in some smasha guns and lootas and I think a reasonably balanced list would have a decent chance.


Everyone who's tried boyz in a green tide in anything other than fun small games have had underwhelming results. Old boyz worked cause 30 almost fearless boyz could be reliably dajumped t1 to tie things down and than if even a single boyz remain, you could get a whole 30 back. Even this way they were not top tier - simply nice. Now they lost fearless and, most importantly, green tide. T5 and ap1 ain't cutting it for footsloggers.

Now you could run trukkboyz if you wish to spend 110 pt over grots. They can be relatively effective at what they do, though.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 the_scotsman wrote:
Isn't the most busted army in the game atm busted because theyve got a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles on the board?

Seems like, an ability that lets us have a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles oh also btw -1 to hit oh also btw -1 damage if you're <8S would be at least fairly decent.

Maybe not, maybe you're better off slapping the tellyport blasta on the ded shiny megamek but I feel like i'd get value out of that 2cp+30pts the very first melta shot I block with that 5++.

I think the buggy list has teef, and I think the buggy list is gonna be taking a kff megamek with the ded shiny shoota to hop into a trukk boyz trukk after he uses the forcefield turn 1 or turn 2.

You can use it two ways: either you've got enough obscuring turn 1 to hide all your criticals and then you can hold the 'shield formation' setup in your back pocket for weathering turn 2 firepower, or you can start bunched turn 1 and have second turn insurance in the form of the 5++/army-wide -1 to hit.
I was never a huge buggy spam guy but even I realize buggy spam is the new ork jam…. However the best lists your talking about also have great shooting for those awesome defensive platforms.. orks are relying on melee to carry us through and I think we will be a strong tournament army but fall to the big 3…. Drukari, ad mech, and primarus…
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 the_scotsman wrote:
Isn't the most busted army in the game atm busted because theyve got a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles on the board?

Seems like, an ability that lets us have a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles oh also btw -1 to hit oh also btw -1 damage if you're <8S would be at least fairly decent.

Maybe not, maybe you're better off slapping the tellyport blasta on the ded shiny megamek but I feel like i'd get value out of that 2cp+30pts the very first melta shot I block with that 5++.

I think the buggy list has teef, and I think the buggy list is gonna be taking a kff megamek with the ded shiny shoota to hop into a trukk boyz trukk after he uses the forcefield turn 1 or turn 2.

You can use it two ways: either you've got enough obscuring turn 1 to hide all your criticals and then you can hold the 'shield formation' setup in your back pocket for weathering turn 2 firepower, or you can start bunched turn 1 and have second turn insurance in the form of the 5++/army-wide -1 to hit.


The DE armies I have faced weren't "Busted" because of 5++ vehicles, they were busted because of the shooting coming out of those vehicles and even worse when the units inside got out. The vehicles themselves were annoying but not broken due to durability, it was the ridiculous firepower coming from them. I had no problem popping them like pimples with my Mek gunz and in CC with just boyz, the problem was I didn't have much left after turn 2 to do anything with because their shooting was just so ridiculously OP.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




 the_scotsman wrote:
Isn't the most busted army in the game atm busted because theyve got a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles on the board?

Seems like, an ability that lets us have a gak-ton of cheap T6 5++ vehicles oh also btw -1 to hit oh also btw -1 damage if you're <8S would be at least fairly decent.


The main issue with Ramshackle is that not a lot of armies bring Anti-tank that's below S8. DEldar Disintegrators are the only thing that comes to mind. -1 To hit will be HUGE in mirror matches but since most armies are hitting on 3+ and dumping rerolls on top of that the impact is at best limited. As it stands our only defensive gimmick is that Eradicators will only kill one of those veichles per turn instead of a whole squadron, which is a point for picking two trukks instead of a Battlewagon but aside from that ramshackle will mostly affect "side weapons" while we're still eating Plasma just the same.

Where Ramshackle really shines IMHO is in melee against all the master crafted/relic/force weapons on charachters and on some elite units (like bladeguard veterans). With T5 infantry and Ramshackling veichles/koptas melee tarpitting would be a real gem for our codex IF we had some way to keep people there but that's simply not happening with fall back
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut




Hong Kong

SemperMortis wrote:
XC18 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

Hot garbage:

Lumbering Strides - 1CP Mork/gorkanaut and stompa Lets you use the old version of Ere we go. Complete and utter crap.


...utter crap ? I would say a good/situational stratagem (unless you think the old version of ere we go was utter crap)
The stupid part is that we had it for free and now we have to pay for it, but that's not the same.

I wouldn't worry too much about strat, I guess we will get our share of new strats when new books hit the shelves. (Octarius?)


Its utter crap because its a former ability that they took from us and turned into a 1 CP stratagem that only works on 3 units, and realistically...you won't be using this because why spend 1CP to reroll 1 dice when you can spend 2 CP to Ramming speed, have a better chance of getting the charge off AND doing mortal wounds on a 2+?
Ah well, true dat. Fair enough.

SemperMortis wrote:
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Can't put ghaz in the Tele but you can put him in a BW and then put THAT in a Tele. Thats pretty funny
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

All I can say about the stratagems is that at least zero are 3cp.

Combine this with the fact kustom jobs and specialist mobs no longer cost CP and it means we have CP to burn on some excellent hero hammer relics and warlord traits for our equally excellent warboss options.


SMASH  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Most of my cp are wasted on a second detachment, 2 relics and 2-3 warlord traits anyway… even w using a battalion and outrider detachment giving me 6-7cp to spare…

I’ve already am dedicating
2cp to smokescreen first turn to keep all my buggies and warboss on bike alive!
2cp to ramming speed on my Killrig so I can place that massive base near as many models as possible for a frazzle mw bomb

Then I’m either going to emergency use 2cp to
Orks is never beaten after a warboss dies but doesn’t get to hit or
Thick as squig hide when my beastboss on squig gets surrounded by a bunch of high str weapons
or if I’m lucky I can use my last 2 cp to
Overwatch on my kill rig because nothing is more hilarious then auto hitting with d3 str9 -3ap d6 dam weapons into a charging monsters face when your opponent doesn’t expect your overwatch to auto hit… (plus the rerolls for stikkbombs vs monster and vehicles...)
And a reroll or lucky careen on a vehicle.

So I don’t really have cp to spare… btw Killrigs are going to have calls for nerfs because of all the crazy shennegians you can do with them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.

Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.


Because instead of fw teams redoing the rules it’s now under Gw rules team.. and this recent codex saw every unit under Gw rules team meaningfully changed in someway. Also as you said making squiggoths more like the current snaggas makes sense. And ultimately we don’t know.


Btw I can almost garauntee you squiggoths are going to be beastsnaggas now!!
Why?
Because the strat tough as squig hide specifically mentions working on “beastsnagga monsters” which currently does NOT exist in our codex.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 18:07:55


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




gungo wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
gungo wrote:
The problem is this..
There is zero incentive to taking large units of boys anymore.
Any groups of 11+ become a blast liability.
The only transports that can hold 12+ amounts of infantry is the battlewagon and huntarig which are both UN optimal as well.
The changes to morale severely dissuade large units..
Troops are almsot a tax this edition so I don’t. See people maxing out snaggaboys or boys either especially when people are using trukk boys as the default choice for troops.
And between the few morale loss mitigating units we have ghazkull (zero attrition modifiers), zagstrukk (half rounded down all loses from morale), etc plus mob rules. We will unlikely lose more then 2 models to morale and attrition when using a 6-7 leadership.

And if you do happen to take a large unit of 15 stormboys that is outside of mob rule and zagstrukk aura that takes a large amount of casualties… or you opponent stacks a bunch of attrition modifiers and you don’t have a character that prevents it.. you always have insane bravery to use which is better. At this point your large unit is already depleted and likely won’t take another round of huge losses without being wiped out to the point it’s not worth spending 2cp to save…

So considering orks current situation I doubt breakin heads will ever be used in any setting without some crazy niche case.


I don't think any of those are a big problem. All of our units are ld 6 or 7 now, so just few casualties to units like warbikers, MANz, koptas or squig riders can easily cause to lose additional expensive multi-wound models. When facing enemies with LD reduction you could even be losing whole buggies to morale. For example DG have a stratagem that give a unit -4 to ld when a terminator kills one of their members, this could easily make you fail your test.
For these situations, breakin' heads is actually very, very good and almost a no-brainer to use. Sadly, it still requires a warboss or unit of nobz to be nearby, so the times when you are actually allowed to use the stratagem when you need it is a way bigger problem than how mediocre it is for single-wound units.

Ld reduction rarely matter to breaking heads… you fail morale regardless breaking heads doesn’t prevent that only instill bravery. Once you fail morale you lose a model regardless breaking heads doesn’t prevent that either… breaking heads only limits attrition loss usually 1 model. So at this point you are losing 2 models (not including what you just lost to trigger a morale test in the first place… (at minimum 3 now).. if you stay at 3-5 models you are mostly fine, benefit from mob rule, and rarely get into a situation where breaking eads is worth using 2cp to save 1 additional model isnt worth it. I mean you are correct those are the main units to benefit once you use insane bravery but you would have to put yourself at squads of 5+ Warbikers, manz, koptas, squig riders and be within 6in of a warboss or nob for this to matter and people are avoiding that because it’s a massive liability.


Breaking heads specifically says the moral test is considered passed, so you don't lose the first model.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




shabadoit wrote:
]

Breaking heads specifically says the moral test is considered passed, so you don't lose the first model.

Okay my bad it’s a nice second option to insane bravery or for a bad morale roll and on a attrition vulnerable unit.
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

I am sure this has been discussed.. but we are up to nearly 250 pages. So please forgive me for the redundancy.

More Dakka Kustom Job: TLDR: Make one additional attack for each dakka weapon this vehicle is equipped with on a 4+ on a 6+ make 2 extra attacks.

If I put this on a Dakka Jet with 6 supa shootas, do I roll 6 extra dice on a 4+ or do I roll the supa shoota profile again per gun. (the second option seems a bit broken but figured I would ask)_


SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




gungo wrote:
Most of my cp are wasted on a second detachment, 2 relics and 2-3 warlord traits anyway… even w using a battalion and outrider detachment giving me 6-7cp to spare…

I’ve already am dedicating
2cp to smokescreen first turn to keep all my buggies and warboss on bike alive!
2cp to ramming speed on my Killrig so I can place that massive base near as many models as possible for a frazzle mw bomb

Then I’m either going to emergency use 2cp to
Orks is never beaten after a warboss dies but doesn’t get to hit or
Thick as squig hide when my beastboss on squig gets surrounded by a bunch of high str weapons
or if I’m lucky I can use my last 2 cp to
Overwatch on my kill rig because nothing is more hilarious then auto hitting with d3 str9 -3ap d6 dam weapons into a charging monsters face when your opponent doesn’t expect your overwatch to auto hit… (plus the rerolls for stikkbombs vs monster and vehicles...)
And a reroll or lucky careen on a vehicle.

So I don’t really have cp to spare… btw Killrigs are going to have calls for nerfs because of all the crazy shennegians you can do with them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.

Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.


Because instead of fw teams redoing the rules it’s now under Gw rules team.. and this recent codex saw every unit under Gw rules team meaningfully changed in someway. Also as you said making squiggoths more like the current snaggas makes sense. And ultimately we don’t know.


Btw I can almost garauntee you squiggoths are going to be beastsnaggas now!!
Why?
Because the strat tough as squig hide specifically mentions working on “beastsnagga monsters” which currently does NOT exist in our codex.


Thought the Beastboss on Squigosaur was a Monster
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 zammerak wrote:
I am sure this has been discussed.. but we are up to nearly 250 pages. So please forgive me for the redundancy.

More Dakka Kustom Job: TLDR: Make one additional attack for each dakka weapon this vehicle is equipped with on a 4+ on a 6+ make 2 extra attacks.

If I put this on a Dakka Jet with 6 supa shootas, do I roll 6 extra dice on a 4+ or do I roll the supa shoota profile again per gun. (the second option seems a bit broken but figured I would ask)_



You explicitly roll 1 single D6. on a 4+, your dakka weapons make 1 additional shot. On a 6, they make 2.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

 the_scotsman wrote:
 zammerak wrote:
I am sure this has been discussed.. but we are up to nearly 250 pages. So please forgive me for the redundancy.

More Dakka Kustom Job: TLDR: Make one additional attack for each dakka weapon this vehicle is equipped with on a 4+ on a 6+ make 2 extra attacks.

If I put this on a Dakka Jet with 6 supa shootas, do I roll 6 extra dice on a 4+ or do I roll the supa shoota profile again per gun. (the second option seems a bit broken but figured I would ask)_



You explicitly roll 1 single D6. on a 4+, your dakka weapons make 1 additional shot. On a 6, they make 2.


right Ok so if I roll a 4 or a 5 they become dakka 7/5 and if I get a 6 they become 8/6
That is what I had thought as well.

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




 zammerak wrote:
I am sure this has been discussed.. but we are up to nearly 250 pages. So please forgive me for the redundancy.

More Dakka Kustom Job: TLDR: Make one additional attack for each dakka weapon this vehicle is equipped with on a 4+ on a 6+ make 2 extra attacks.

If I put this on a Dakka Jet with 6 supa shootas, do I roll 6 extra dice on a 4+ or do I roll the supa shoota profile again per gun. (the second option seems a bit broken but figured I would ask)_



The core rules say

"When you select a unit to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attack with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with [...]"

and

"No unit can be selected to shoot with more than once in each shooting phase"

It appears that shooting is singular so you only get to roll once which is pretty bad for 15 point because it statistically ups your shots from a dakkajet by 4 (damage increased by 13 percent) while it also ups your costs by 18 percent
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




panzerfront14 wrote:
gungo wrote:
Most of my cp are wasted on a second detachment, 2 relics and 2-3 warlord traits anyway… even w using a battalion and outrider detachment giving me 6-7cp to spare…

I’ve already am dedicating
2cp to smokescreen first turn to keep all my buggies and warboss on bike alive!
2cp to ramming speed on my Killrig so I can place that massive base near as many models as possible for a frazzle mw bomb

Then I’m either going to emergency use 2cp to
Orks is never beaten after a warboss dies but doesn’t get to hit or
Thick as squig hide when my beastboss on squig gets surrounded by a bunch of high str weapons
or if I’m lucky I can use my last 2 cp to
Overwatch on my kill rig because nothing is more hilarious then auto hitting with d3 str9 -3ap d6 dam weapons into a charging monsters face when your opponent doesn’t expect your overwatch to auto hit… (plus the rerolls for stikkbombs vs monster and vehicles...)
And a reroll or lucky careen on a vehicle.

So I don’t really have cp to spare… btw Killrigs are going to have calls for nerfs because of all the crazy shennegians you can do with them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
why on earth would they do that?
they have NEVER done that in the past far as im aware and while it would make "sense" for squiggoths to only transport snaggas they wouldnt bother with such a massive shift unless they released a new model.

Gargsquig is supposedly already OOP and the regular squig is likely not too far off from it.


Because instead of fw teams redoing the rules it’s now under Gw rules team.. and this recent codex saw every unit under Gw rules team meaningfully changed in someway. Also as you said making squiggoths more like the current snaggas makes sense. And ultimately we don’t know.


Btw I can almost garauntee you squiggoths are going to be beastsnaggas now!!
Why?
Because the strat tough as squig hide specifically mentions working on “beastsnagga monsters” which currently does NOT exist in our codex.


Thought the Beastboss on Squigosaur was a Monster

I had to look it up too
Neither him nor the named squigboss has “monster” keyword. They have “squig” and “cavalry” keywords.
The Killrig and hunter rig don’t have squig keyword at all which is kinda dumb.. but they honestly don’t need more shenanigans.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 19:58:32


 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




I just checked and there is actually no vehicle in the orks codex where the increase in damage from adding the more dakka kustom job exceeds the cost increase.

So the verdict is: never take it
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

enni wrote:
I just checked and there is actually no vehicle in the orks codex where the increase in damage from adding the more dakka kustom job exceeds the cost increase.

So the verdict is: never take it


Even if the Dakka Jet takes the 6 supa shootas? that would be 6 more shots (up to 12) for a 15 pt increase or a 13.6% increase.

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Why not, if you have enough points and can't get a whole unit, it's a nice option to get this extra shooting on a jet. Especially for freebootas when you need every bit possible to get this first kill off.
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




 zammerak wrote:
enni wrote:
I just checked and there is actually no vehicle in the orks codex where the increase in damage from adding the more dakka kustom job exceeds the cost increase.

So the verdict is: never take it


Even if the Dakka Jet takes the 6 supa shootas? that would be 6 more shots (up to 12) for a 15 pt increase or a 13.6% increase.


you get 6 additional shots on 4s and 5s and 12 on 6s for an average of (0+0+0+6+6+12)/6 = 24/6 = 4




Automatically Appended Next Post:
which as stated above increases your damage by 13% yet does nothing for your resiliance.

and 15 points is 18% of the dakkajet cost (6 big shootas)

so you're always better of saving those point to pay for (parts of) an additional dakkajet

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 21:07:14


 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine




UK

The more dakka-dakka jet is fine, you get average 16.6% more shots at max range/11.1% more shots at short range for 12.5% more points. If you have 15 points lying around go for it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




XC18 wrote:


SemperMortis wrote:
Tank Bustas were ALL equipped with Tankbusta bombs. I remember in one memorable game I drove a unit of 10 tankbustas up to an enemy Knight, hopped out and launched 10D3 Tankbusta Bombz and 2 Bomb squigs into it I rolled fairly well and popped the knight in a single shooting phase I than used Shoot twice stratagem and failed to kill a 2nd Knight, but by that point my little busters had made their points back and then some
Hey, now that rokkit launchers are D3... we can actually do that trick every turn ! It's like the old strat for free every turn lol.


Yep...except you can't move and you don't get full re-rolls

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
 
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