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So I've been a big fan of Firefox for years now, despite all its issues, because it's always placed the ability of the user to control their experience above almost everything else. Recently though, the devs have been sinking further and further into their own self-indulgent fantasy world where users desperately need them to arbitrarily break privacy and UI addons(because, damnit, it's vitally important that you not be able to make your buttons and icons look like older versions of the browser you like better), culminating in the ludicrous farce that is the upcoming FF57 release which will, at a stroke, declare almost 90% of addons "Legacy" and make them non-functional on all 57+ releases. Nevermind that most of them work perfectly fine, or that most addon devs aren't interested in the new toy that the FF dev team are pushing, they want everyone to use their new API and if we won't do it voluntarily then they'll damn well force us.

So I'm after alternatives. I mean, if there are any, last time I considered switching there didn't appear to be any real prospects - apparently a browser with addons, a user-controllable appearance and general UX, that isn't under the ultimate control of a corporate data-vampire(because why bother installing loads of privacy and anti-tracking addons if the final arbiter of your browser's telemetry is bloody Google), and devs that haven't vanished up their own collective backside is like a unicorn these days. Any suggestions?

I am a big Opera fan as it also comes with a built-in VPN, if that is your thing. Then again, I don't mess around too much with the UX other than adding additional plug-ins so I don't know how much customization is possible with it.

+1 for Opera. I have that and Chrome on my laptop (Chrome is specifically for my schoolwork) It's not the best browser ever, but it's solid.

I would also go for Opera.

Another one for Opera. Switched from Chrome when it decided to block everything that wasn't a https address, and have not looked back.

 Yodhrin wrote:
So I've been a big fan of Firefox for years now, despite all its issues, because it's always placed the ability of the user to control their experience above almost everything else. Recently though, the devs have been sinking further and further into their own self-indulgent fantasy world where users desperately need them to arbitrarily break privacy and UI addons(because, damnit, it's vitally important that you not be able to make your buttons and icons look like older versions of the browser you like better), culminating in the ludicrous farce that is the upcoming FF57 release which will, at a stroke, declare almost 90% of addons "Legacy" and make them non-functional on all 57+ releases. Nevermind that most of them work perfectly fine, or that most addon devs aren't interested in the new toy that the FF dev team are pushing, they want everyone to use their new API and if we won't do it voluntarily then they'll damn well force us.

So I'm after alternatives. I mean, if there are any, last time I considered switching there didn't appear to be any real prospects - apparently a browser with addons, a user-controllable appearance and general UX, that isn't under the ultimate control of a corporate data-vampire(because why bother installing loads of privacy and anti-tracking addons if the final arbiter of your browser's telemetry is bloody Google), and devs that haven't vanished up their own collective backside is like a unicorn these days. Any suggestions?

Opera is a good alternative.


But I use an up and coming browser called Brave. I use Quant and DuckDuckGo as search engines.


Goolag can burn in hell for all I care. Same goes for Firefux.

VIVALDI

Opera has been rubbish since they binned opera 12.x

Chromium is Chrome with minimal Google tendrils in it. It's not great, but it's the gold standard of what you can do.

Vivaldi is also decent. It's my current browser of choice. It's chromium based, so you're no better off than chromium, but the added features are nifty, and I think it's being developed by ex-Opera team members, so there's something.

There's also the Firefox spinoffs that might be worth looking at: Iceweasel et al.

I don't know if it's the best solution, but I switched to Firefox's Extended Support Release (ESR) at 52.0, which is basically Firefox for companies that don't want to deal with BS like suddenly losing support for Google Hangouts in the middle of a project.

 filbert wrote:
I am a big Opera fan as it also comes with a built-in VPN, if that is your thing. Then again, I don't mess around too much with the UX other than adding additional plug-ins so I don't know how much customization is possible with it.

Built-in VPN!!! I did not hear about it before. I use NordVPN and purchased its two year plan at $3.99 per month.

I tried Opera couple of years ago and it was simply awful, there was no UI customization options whatsoever and when people tried to inquire when such options might become available, answer from developers was "never".
I suppose Opera is allright if you are used to using Chrome in default settings, but for Firefoxer it was simply unbearable. I am now using Vivaldi as my secondary browser, it seems passable.

I guess I'm a fogy. I still primarily use Internet Explorer, and sometimes Microsoft Edge.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I guess I'm a fogy. I still primarily use Internet Explorer

jfc.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I guess I'm a fogy. I still primarily use Internet Explorer, and sometimes Microsoft Edge.

People using Internet Explorer?
Am I still in the right decade?

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I guess I'm a fogy. I still primarily use Internet Explorer, and sometimes Microsoft Edge.

People using Internet Explorer?
Am I still in the right decade?

Honestly, it just has a setup that clicks with me. I like drop-down menus. I like how stuff is laid out. I like the simplicity.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I guess I'm a fogy. I still primarily use Internet Explorer, and sometimes Microsoft Edge.

People using Internet Explorer?
Am I still in the right decade?

Honestly, it just has a setup that clicks with me. I like drop-down menus. I like how stuff is laid out. I like the simplicity.

Also Microsoft incumbancy, those who dont know dont switch, and Microsoft still obfuscates this when they can.

I use Opera and Firefox, yes I use both for different things.

I've used various versions of IE, Edge, Chrome and Firefox. Apart from them all putting the buttons in different places, I can't say I've ever felt one to be better than the others, in terms of UI. Other than hiding the menu bar. That's annoying.

Opera is great! Firefox hasn't been nearly as nice/smooth as it was a decade ago

 Orlanth wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I guess I'm a fogy. I still primarily use Internet Explorer, and sometimes Microsoft Edge.

People using Internet Explorer?
Am I still in the right decade?

Honestly, it just has a setup that clicks with me. I like drop-down menus. I like how stuff is laid out. I like the simplicity.

Also Microsoft incumbancy, those who dont know dont switch, and Microsoft still obfuscates this when they can.

I use Opera and Firefox, yes I use both for different things.

IE 10 is a reasonably good browser, as good as any other. The only thing last decade is jokes about IE being rubbish.

Firefox swings between good and bad depending on the release, the fickle choices and politics of the dev team and what plugins you use.

Chrome is bloated crap that slows your PC to a crawl.

Edge is reasonably good, but it’s lack of Java support can be a pain if you need it. Java itself is a buggy, unsecure bit of crap, but sometimes you have no choice.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I guess I'm a fogy. I still primarily use Internet Explorer, and sometimes Microsoft Edge.

People using Internet Explorer?
Am I still in the right decade?

Honestly, it just has a setup that clicks with me. I like drop-down menus. I like how stuff is laid out. I like the simplicity.

Also Microsoft incumbancy, those who dont know dont switch, and Microsoft still obfuscates this when they can.

I use Opera and Firefox, yes I use both for different things.

IE 10 is a reasonably good browser, as good as any other. The only thing last decade is jokes about IE being rubbish.

Firefox swings between good and bad depending on the release, the fickle choices and politics of the dev team and what plugins you use.

Chrome is bloated crap that slows your PC to a crawl.

Edge is reasonably good, but it’s lack of Java support can be a pain if you need it. Java itself is a buggy, unsecure bit of crap, but sometimes you have no choice.

Yeah, IE is so good that Microsoft has discontinued it
I use Firefox myself, although it is far being from a perfect browser as well (and it definitely does have ups and downs), it usually is quite decent. Plus, it is very customisable, light on resources and isn't owned by a big conglomerate data whore. Edge is all-around meh (though it is fast), and its lack of compatibility with a lot of stuff sucks. Chrome is probably the only browser worse than IE. I use it on my phone, and it can be really fast, but it is so heavy on resources that it often clogs up the system entirely resulting in long wait times and crashes, completely negating the potential speed. Also, it is made by Google who are spying on people so much they make the Stasi seem amateurish. The only reason I haven't changed browser is because I am lazy. Opera is really nice. It would definitely be my second choice after Firefox. In fact, I am thinking about installing Opera for when I am on slow or unstable mobile connections. Opera has some nifty features to deal with that. I think it might be the best browser for laptops.
These are just my opinions though. If you guys like IE for whatever reason, don't let me stop you from using it. I used to use IE myself in fact... Back when my only computer was an ancient relic running on Windows XP...

Anyways, if you want to use neither Firefox nor Chrome, give Opera a go.

What are he reasons people use different web browsers? I have always just used whatever windows product came with my PC and I've never had a problem...except when certain things require I use something else. Firefox has always taken care of that. I find these things to be more of an annoyance anyways. I am not a programmer so I don't know the the reasoning behind why one thing might require a certain web browsers anyways.

Using edge right now and havn't had a single issue since I got this laptop about 3 years ago.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I've used various versions of IE, Edge, Chrome and Firefox. Apart from them all putting the buttons in different places, I can't say I've ever felt one to be better than the others, in terms of UI. Other than hiding the menu bar. That's annoying.

By default you're correct, they're all much of a muchness.

The reason I used Firefox was the extent you could personalise the UI to fit your preferences exactly and also load it with privacy and security addons. It was the ethos behind the design - user preferences come first - that made Firefox so great, and why their shift to the more industry standard "developer knows best" thinking killed it for me.

Waterfox seems to be working out fairly OK as an alternative now though. It's a bit buggy, more like Firefox of a few years ago, but I'd rather deal with an occasional browser crash than use a product crafted according to the whims of some smug design graduate who believes they know what I want better than I do.

Avast also makes a web browser - Avast Secure Browser - for Windows. Avast is an anti-virus software company.

 Steve steveson wrote:
IE 10 is a reasonably good browser, as good as any other. The only thing last decade is jokes about IE being rubbish.

IE10 is a 6 old web browser that has been end-of-life for two years. Saying that a browser that has 2 years of unpatched security vulnerabilities is the same as any other is frankly pretty outlandish.

 daedalus wrote:
Chromium is Chrome with minimal Google tendrils in it. It's not great, but it's the gold standard of what you can do.

It's also open sourced, and has a LOT of potentially damaging things in it. My daughter downloaded Chromium and less than a month after she put it in several of our software packages were corrupted, as was our display driver. The comp would crash after 5-7 minutes of running ANYTHING through Shockwave or Flashplayer, which meant 5 minutes on Facebook would crash it. Even after removing Chromium, the damage was done. The comp now has suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure and I can't get it to load the OS. If there's one thing I'd tell ANYONE on the net is to stay as far away from Chromium as possible.

That sounds more like a hard drive problem than a browser issue.

 Just Tony wrote:

It's also open sourced, and has a LOT of potentially damaging things in it. My daughter downloaded Chromium and less than a month after she put it in several of our software packages were corrupted, as was our display driver. The comp would crash after 5-7 minutes of running ANYTHING through Shockwave or Flashplayer, which meant 5 minutes on Facebook would crash it. Even after removing Chromium, the damage was done. The comp now has suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure and I can't get it to load the OS. If there's one thing I'd tell ANYONE on the net is to stay as far away from Chromium as possible.

There's a known issue with chromium based browsers (this includes Chrome and Vivaldi and otheres) causing some Dell (and I think lenovo, maybe more?) computers to crash due to an issue with a graphics driver and hardware based rendering. Naturally, I can't seem to find wherever I read about it at, but I didn't try very hard either. Anyway, it's obscure but I know about it because it makes my work laptop crash any time I look at a page with any video or animation. It's fixed by disabling hardware acceleration in the browser's advanced settings. That happens while using chrome based browsers, but it's a driver issue.

I genuinely don't think that a browser managed to cause your hard drive to fail though. A browser crash might cause Windows to fail at whatever whack-a-mole crash recovery system they use after that sort of thing happens, especially if there was an update or something system related going on at the same time (and who could tell nowadays?) That might look like a hard drive failure if Windows couldn't boot anymore from repeated crashes until you ran some diagnostics or reinstalled Windows. I don't think you can even access anything low level enough on a computer anymore to actually be able to cause damage to a drive if you wanted to. A failing hard drive would cause a hard drive to fail though, and that could happen at any point in time, including less than a month after installing Chromium.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
What's wrong with being "open sourced"?

Socialism.

 Ouze wrote:
Socialism.

Wow, you just can't help yourself, can you?



I question the controls in place on the project, and I definitely question the security.

 Just Tony wrote:
I question the controls in place on the project, and I definitely question the security.

And why would it being open source be a disadvantage?

From my experience regularly updated open source projects seem much more stable than similar managed closed source projects. And a lot of the internet infrastructure is running on top of some sort of open source project, as well as the underpinnings of Android, iOS, MacOS, the PS4, and the Nintendo Switch (if I remember correctly).