Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have been overhauling my Crimson Fists list. Here is what I have.

Battalion Detachment
[HQ]
Pedro Kantor - 170 pts
Rhino Primaris - 170 pts
Troops
Intercessor Squad - Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - 101 pts
Intercessor Squad - Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - 101 pts
Intercessor Squad - Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - 101 pts
Heavy Support
Devastator Squad - 4x Lascannon, Armourium Cherubs - 170 pts
Dedicated Transports
Razorback - Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter - 102 pts
Razorback - Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter - 102 pts
Rhino - Storm Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile - 78 pts

Vanguard Detachment
HQ
Captain - Power Fist (Fist of Vengeance), Master-crafted Boltgun, Bolt Pistol - 89 pts
Elites
Aggressor Squad - Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm Grenade Launchers - 129 pts
Apothecary - 55 pts
Honour Guard - Power Axes - 52 pts

Vanguard Detachment
HQ
Lieutenant - Master-crafted Boltgun, Power Sword, Bolt Pistol - 67 pts
Elites
Sternguard Squad - 5x Combi-Meltas - 175 pts
Sternguard Squad - 5x Combi-Plasma - 155 pts
Sternguard Squad - 10x Special Issue Boltguns - 180 pts

Total - 1997/2000 pts, 8 CP

The plan is that Pedro, Captain, LT, Honour Guard, and Apothecary will all ride in the Rhino Primaris. The Sternguard will ride in the Rhino and Razorbacks, keeping close to the Rhino Primaris. They will pop out Turn 2. Rhino Primaris will give +1 to Hit to the 10-man Sternguard Squad, then I will activate Bolter Drill (getting extra shots on 5s or 6s), then I will activate Masterful Marksmanship for good measure. The combination of all of that with Pedro's Rerolls to hit and the LT's reroll to wound will be devastating. Intercessors will match up the field, Devastators will hang back. Aggressors will also March up the field.

I know they're quite expensive, but could an alternative be a drop pod as a delivery system for the combi vets (all in one)? would be quite a horrific first turn punch allowing other units to move into position whilst they get dealt with.

I have considered a Drop Pod, certainly. It would make it so i would have to swap one squad of Intercessors for a Scout Squad, but I can live with that. I still prefer Rhinos since they are mobile. Also, since Meltagun and the Melta portion of a Combi-Melta are Assault weapons, the Sternguard carrying them should be able to close pretty fast.

Any other thoughts besides moving to a Drop Pod instead of a Rhino? I think I have Anti-Infantry/Horde covered well. Do I need more Anti-MC/Vehicle?

IMHO The only weak points in the list are the Captain and the Aggressors. You do have a lot of anti horde, and the Aggressors won't likely get much play in unless they try to deep strike past your front line to hit your rear, and that is an expensive baby sitting unit. The captain I say because you already have Pedro, so his aura is wasted. I would switch the Power Fist to the Lieutenant for the relic, and then try to get the points for a Librarian. Might of Heroes and Null Zone will make Pedro really scary in CC, plus Smite and Denying are always great. You are a little light on anti-tank/MC but not much. +1 to hit on the 10 man Sternguard with Bolter Drill, rerolls, Masterful Marksman, and if you take Storm of Fire... it will rip apart a lot of vehicles and monsters.

I went with the Captain because he has an Invulnerable whereas the LT does not. He also has a few more attacks as well. He may end up being the Warlord (Pedro doesn't need an extra d3 attacks). One option I have been looking at is replacing the two Combi-Weapon Sternguard Squads with a Hellblaster Squad and a Missile Launcher Squad and making the second Vanguard Detachment a Spearhead Detachment. This would increase my long range support without decreasing the bodies or damage output much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am kinda wondering I should do a second squad of Hellblasters instead of the Missile Launchers Devastators.

Missile Launchers really only shine if you think you may need more anti-infantry. I don't think that is the case here so I think the Hellblasters would do more work for you. They effectively threaten everything in the game. So much so that I never leave home without 10 of them. Also since you have a Rhino Primaris already, I would take 1 ten man unit of them. It is scary how much they do to even Land Raiders when you can Super-charge without even thinking about it.

 Captain Garius wrote:
Missile Launchers really only shine if you think you may need more anti-infantry. I don't think that is the case here so I think the Hellblasters would do more work for you. They effectively threaten everything in the game. So much so that I never leave home without 10 of them. Also since you have a Rhino Primaris already, I would take 1 ten man unit of them. It is scary how much they do to even Land Raiders when you can Super-charge without even thinking about it.

The issue I have is that if I take a 10-man squad, I am losing a Command Point due to the Spearhead requirements not being met. That is fewer Bolter Drill+Masterful Marksmanship for my Sternguard. One thing with the ML is that I can launch a Flakk Missile if needed for an especially annoying Flyer. I will have to try each one out and see what I get. I don't have 5 more Hellblasters at the moment, whereas I have the Devastators. Still, even two Squads of Hellblasters can be mean as hell. Their mobility is definitely a plus.

The more I think about it, I think I am going to make the Captain the Warlord and give him Storm of Fire. That way he can be near the Sternguard and Assault Cannon Razorbacks to give them a little extra AP. The volume of shots should help out a lot of stuff. Pedro really doesn't need the extra d3 attacks (honestly, I hate the fact he is required to take that Warlord trait since he already boosts his attacks). I am probably still going to struggle a bit against more mechanized armies, but the Sternguard with Combi Weapons and the Devastators should make a dent. Add in the grenade launcher and and assault cannons and I should strip wounds off big things. Plus, if Pedro, the Captain, or the Aggressors end up in combat with something, it is going to get beaten down by Power Fists.

Battalion Detachment
HQ
Pedro Kantor - 170 pts
Rhino Primaris - 170 pts
Troops
Intercessor Squad - Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - 101 pts
Intercessor Squad - Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - 101 pts
Intercessor Squad - Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - 101 pts
Dedicated Transports
Razorback - Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter - 102 pts
Razorback - Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter - 102 pts
Rhino - Storm Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile - 78 pts

Vanguard Detachment
HQ
Captain - Power Fist (Fist of Vengeance), Master-crafted Boltgun, Bolt Pistol - 89 pts
Elites
Aggressor Squad - Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm Grenade Launchers - 129 pts
Apothecary - 55 pts
Honour Guard - Power Axes - 52 pts

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
Lieutenant - Master-crafted Boltgun, Power Sword, Bolt Pistol - 67 pts
Elites
Sternguard Squad - 10x Special Issue Boltguns - 180 pts
Heavy Support
Devastator Squad - 4x Lascannon, Armourium Cherubs - 170 pts
Hellblaster Squad - 5x Plasma Incinerators - 165 pts
Hellblaster Squad - 5x Plasma Incinerators - 165 pts

Total - 1997/2000 pts, 8 CP

The strategy remains largely the same except the Hellblasters would be footslogging forward and the Razorbacks would be less hindered by the troops inside. It increases the number of targets that need to be dealt with, so that is good. The drops go up, but I imagine my MSU stuff would make me go second regardless.

Does it look like I will have enough ability to deal with hordes with this newer list? I know that Hellblasters are great general purpose units, but am I going to be stretched too thin?

I'm a new (returning vet ) Crimson Fist player that will likely be facing 40 Poxwalkers regularly and I'm wondering if you've given a unit of Bikes much consideration for anti-Horde.

 Wolf 11x wrote:
I'm a new (returning vet ) Crimson Fist player that will likely be facing 40 Poxwalkers regularly and I'm wondering if you've given a unit of Bikes much consideration for anti-Horde.

I have not. And really the Aggressors serve much the same function, if a bit slower. I don't have any bikes to use anyway!

I'm e veteran crimson fists player till 6th edition. I entirely skip 7th edition and now with 8th i am trying to turn back.

One humble recommendation about your list is maybe you can think to add a sniper scout squad for annoying guys.

if i am not wrong, with this edition they can directly shoot characters.