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Hey guys,

I wanted to start a little brainstorming and list-building. I really believe in the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics and other pieces that they have access to, but the buffs tend to fit into two categories:
1. Keeping ranged things alive easier
2. Getting assault things into assault easier

Which tend to contradict a little bit.

Here's the breakdown.

Raven Guard Chapter Tactic - If an enemy targets a unit 12" or more away, they subtract 1 to hit
Raven Guard Stratagem - 1CP - Before first turn begins, deploy an infantry unit anywhere that's 9" away from enemy models
Raven Guard Warlod Trait - Enemies can't shoot Overwatch at your Warlord
Raven Guard Relic - Raven's Fury - Jump Pack - Model can advance and charge in same turn and can re-roll failed charges

And then there's Kayvaan Shrike at a buck fifty. +2 to hit, 5 hit points and 5 attacks.
He's a Chapter Master, so 6" re-roll hit rolls aura. Jump Pack, 4+ invul, and re-roll failed charge rolls for friendly RG Jump Pack units in 6" aura.

So despite the Chapter Tactic encouraging you to deploy far back from many gunlines, there are a lot of things that assist getting into close combat, making certain units much more viable, especially in a cluster around your Warlord or Kayvaan Shrike.

In an all or nothing list, you could maximize the impact of the Chapter Tactic by having a gun-line army of Hellblasters, Devastators, Scouts (with camo cloaks), and a couple of captains and lieutenants to re-roll those failed hits and wounds.

Alternatively, you could go fully into the assault and charge in with Kayvaan, a Captain, and maybe a Chaplain along with some Vanguard Vets, Terminators, and Assault Squads, chopping your opponent up from the far sides of the board where the Chapter Tactic makes it more difficult for them to focus you down. Having your Warlord deny Overwatch to a fat squad of Conscripts, Necron Warriors, Tau Fire Warriors, or other shooty things really helps, and giving your Warlord the Raven's Fury relic means he'll get into close combat with incredible ease. 12" move plus d6" advance and then a re-roll-able charge? Yeah, you're guaranteed, first turn if you're lucky.

How would you guys build a list to maximize the Raven Guard-ness of their abilities while remaining competitive?

I have a friend just starting 40k with Raven Guard, he really loves his scout squads full of snipers. Granted he's mostly played against my infantry guard horde so the snipers are probably a bit more effective than they'd normally be, but they serve him pretty well in my experience. From there he runs a couple of squads of primaris Intercessors (The primaris tac marines) a squad of hellblasters, some vanguard vets with lightning claws, shrike, and has been toying around with other stuff from there.

I honestly feel that duality of their chapter is one of their greatest strengths. Having those really nasty CQC units buys their ranged guys time to get more shots and keeps the heat off them, while the ranged guys can provide support and soften targets before close combat units get stuck in. From what I've seen, when he builds a list with a healthy mix between shooty/stabby he tends to do better than just focusing one of the aspects in exclusion to the other.

The problem raven guard face is forge world

Lyas issander does literally everything you want raven guard to do with their deployment shenanigans, but better cause he does it cheaper in cp

Lias Issodon is great yeah, but he is rather expensive. Also he doesn't exactly do what the RG can do with Stratagems. Lias is basically three free drop pods. The RG trick has a bit more risk and reward to it. With the RG forward deployment you get a move first which is HUGE for getting special weapons in range behind bubble wrap or letting Fly units jump over it. The downside is if you don't go first they basically get murdered unless they also happen to be out of Los.

I still prefer Lias due to the safety, but that's a very important distinction to make.

Another way to look at the Chapter Tactic, aside from helping you stay alive at range, is that it helps you stay alive while you close into melee. I don't think that's contradictory at all.

@Perth I don't think you'd ever just let someone get murdered with SftS since you know who's going first before they even deploy.

Lias being described as 3 free drop pods is certainly more accurate, but it's still basically giving deep strike to units that don't or can't get it elsewhere. That's awesome for both SftS and Lias.

I just double checked the wording of Strike from the Shadows, you are correct. I for some reason had it in my head that you knew who won the roll, but didn't know if a seize was going to happen. Looks like even that happens before though, which is a nice plus.

I guess the question is, is that stratagem really worth it? And what sort of unit would you use it on? A fat blob of terminators? An assault squad to get behind enemy lines?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I have a friend just starting 40k with Raven Guard, he really loves his scout squads full of snipers. Granted he's mostly played against my infantry guard horde so the snipers are probably a bit more effective than they'd normally be, but they serve him pretty well in my experience. From there he runs a couple of squads of primaris Intercessors (The primaris tac marines) a squad of hellblasters, some vanguard vets with lightning claws, shrike, and has been toying around with other stuff from there.

Off topic question, but if he just started, where did he get his Shrike model from? Shrike's the last guy I need for WYSIWYGing my current list and I can't find him in local shops or the online store.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to the topic, I've only got a few games in, but feeling kinda mixed on the stratagem. I usually take an Aggressor squad and 1-2 other units to use it on, which when I get to go first, seems great. But games I don't then I tend to get stuck deploying further away anyways and I'm not really feeling like I got my CP's worth. Those cases I wish I'd used Lias instead. ...Which maybe works out if I can't find a Shrike

Speaking of the warlord and traits, do you charge enough things with crazy deadly overwatch to get much use out of it? I tend to run my gunline guy as the warlord for Storm of Fire instead, but there are a few units out there I'd hate to charge.

Things with flame weapons come to mind as for things you don't want to charge.

Anyway, I think SFTS is worth it for sure if you build your list around going first.

10 man Vanguard, Sternguard or Hellblaster squads seem to be where the best bang for your buck is. Terminators or Aggressors also seem like something I wouldn't want a full squad of in my face turn one.

I also think this works well with the duality of the RG Chapter Tactic, half of your units are designated fire support, half go in for the ambush for maximum alpha strike, which seems to be a common theme in 8th lists.

For the record, Shrike is easy enough to build out of a Vanguard box, but my favorite I think is the Deathwatch Raven Guard character.

 Perth wrote:
Lias Issodon is great yeah, but he is rather expensive. Also he doesn't exactly do what the RG can do with Stratagems. Lias is basically three free drop pods. The RG trick has a bit more risk and reward to it. With the RG forward deployment you get a move first which is HUGE for getting special weapons in range behind bubble wrap or letting Fly units jump over it. The downside is if you don't go first they basically get murdered unless they also happen to be out of Los.

I still prefer Lias due to the safety, but that's a very important distinction to make.

The way I understand how chapter stratagems work, it counts for successors, so he give three units deepstrike AND can strike from the shadows.

 Perth wrote:
Things with flame weapons come to mind as for things you don't want to charge.

Anyway, I think SFTS is worth it for sure if you build your list around going first.

10 man Vanguard, Sternguard or Hellblaster squads seem to be where the best bang for your buck is. Terminators or Aggressors also seem like something I wouldn't want a full squad of in my face turn one.

I also think this works well with the duality of the RG Chapter Tactic, half of your units are designated fire support, half go in for the ambush for maximum alpha strike, which seems to be a common theme in 8th lists.

For the record, Shrike is easy enough to build out of a Vanguard box, but my favorite I think is the Deathwatch Raven Guard character.

Building the list around going first the hard part though. The more units you want to SftS, the more deployments and the worse your odds of being able to use it. If they hadn't previewed the first player roll off change, I might have finally broken down and bought a storm raven to reduce my count further.

I'd rather not use a VV as Shrike, I own exactly as many as I often use. And I'm not so hot on modding, so he'd look exactly like a VV with dual claws. I do like that Deathwatch model other than the fast attack symbols carved in, might go with him.

I agree with Perth's general philosophy.

I think they key to Raven Guard is making your opponent do what you want him to do. Whether that's by forcing his deployment decisions, or making him react and move to engage SftS threats. The gunline is more effective if the enemy is BUSY.

Keep in mind that you always have the option of deploying the SftS units out of LoS, because you'll already know if you've got first or second turn (AND they don't count against your Reserve limit).

I'll be trying 2-3 Ironclads for SftS tomorrow (My first Codex game). I think dreadnoughts are the ideal use for the stratagem. They'll have first turn support from Vanguard Vets (with Storm Sheilds), A Jump Pack Captain Warlord, and a JP Librarian (Veil of Time, Might of Heroes (T9 Ironclad!)).

Cheap Scouts will also be infliltrated up front to distract, screen, and support. I'm debating gearing them for CC. They're there to encourage the enemy to deploy the way you want him to, get shot at, or soak heavy weapons Overwatch for the Ironclads. (The Warlord trait can do this too.)

Snipers are also really good for forcing deployment decisions. They're really not very effective for their cost, but they scare the crap out of the enemy, and encourage him to deploy characters out of LoS. I'm debating deploying them third, after the infiltrated Scouts. (I usually deploy all my deep strikers in reserve first.)

The Chapter Tactic is really useful for assaulting the flank of the enemy deployment. On a 6'x4' board, you might have 4' to 5' that are still taking a penalty to hit you.

Assault Squads get torn up really easily. If you're going to use them, don't spend a lot of points upgrading. I'd rather have a geared-out 5-man squad of Vanguard than a 10-man of Assault. Besides, they're only 2 points more per model.

bort wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I have a friend just starting 40k with Raven Guard, he really loves his scout squads full of snipers. Granted he's mostly played against my infantry guard horde so the snipers are probably a bit more effective than they'd normally be, but they serve him pretty well in my experience. From there he runs a couple of squads of primaris Intercessors (The primaris tac marines) a squad of hellblasters, some vanguard vets with lightning claws, shrike, and has been toying around with other stuff from there.

Off topic question, but if he just started, where did he get his Shrike model from? Shrike's the last guy I need for WYSIWYGing my current list and I can't find him in local shops or the online store.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to the topic, I've only got a few games in, but feeling kinda mixed on the stratagem. I usually take an Aggressor squad and 1-2 other units to use it on, which when I get to go first, seems great. But games I don't then I tend to get stuck deploying further away anyways and I'm not really feeling like I got my CP's worth. Those cases I wish I'd used Lias instead. ...Which maybe works out if I can't find a Shrike

Speaking of the warlord and traits, do you charge enough things with crazy deadly overwatch to get much use out of it? I tend to run my gunline guy as the warlord for Storm of Fire instead, but there are a few units out there I'd hate to charge.

He didn't get the Shrike model. We took one look at an official model, decided it was one of the doofiest looking character models we'd ever seen, and came up with this instead



Yes, it's pretty ridiculous and over the top but I had a lot of fun building him. My friend is paying me to build/paint the army so whenever he ok's something I'm good to go. We cobbled him together from that character that comes in the Shadowforce Solak box and leftover parts from the FW Lightning claw assault squad that's unique to Raven guard. He definitely looks imposing on the table. He's one of the next things in line on the painting que.

As for tactics, that strategem is worth its weight in gold. If you're not impressed with it it means you're not picking the right units to infiltrate or the right targets for them to hit. Aggressors should be doing a decent amount of damage but I would probably pick Hellblasters or something else with more high strength punch. I know when they've been infiltrated against me its pretty scary with that 15" rapid fire range.

Alternatively you'd do a CQC unit and set them up for a stupid easy first turn charge or if you lose the initiative you hide it behind terrain. The nice thing about it is it lets you react, you don't have to set the models down until you know exactly what's going to happen. That is huge.

Containment_Failure wrote:

I'll be trying 2-3 Ironclads for SftS tomorrow (My first Codex game). I think dreadnoughts are the ideal use for the stratagem. They'll have first turn support from Vanguard Vets (with Storm Sheilds), A Jump Pack Captain Warlord, and a JP Librarian (Veil of Time, Might of Heroes (T9 Ironclad!)).

Nice try, but SftS is RG INFANTRY only.

Can you use SFTS multiple times on multiple units? I thought you could only use one strategem per turn?

You can only use one per phase - but - it's pre-turn 1 so not a phase.

You can SftS as many units as you have CP's for.

Tbh that is either some T1 assault units or putting Dakka in a good spot - in cover - on an objective and outside of 12".

I tend to use 2 7 man VV squads with the option of dropping in some Aggressors who are pure filth with 2 shots

Containment_Failure wrote:


Keep in mind that you always have the option of deploying the SftS units out of LoS, because you'll already know if you've got first or second turn (AND they don't count against your Reserve limit).

I'm pretty sure they do count for the reserve limit, as they are off the table during deployment and only placed at the beginning of the first battle round.

 Perth wrote:

Containment_Failure wrote:


Keep in mind that you always have the option of deploying the SftS units out of LoS, because you'll already know if you've got first or second turn (AND they don't count against your Reserve limit).

I'm pretty sure they do count for the reserve limit, as they are off the table during deployment and only placed at the beginning of the first battle round.

Actually they deploy before the first turn, so, they do not seem to.

MarkM wrote:
Nice try, but SftS is RG INFANTRY only.

Aww crud--I thought it applied to all the Chapter Tactics units. Many thanks for the correction.

Oh well, I lost anyway, and I consider it a fair trade for my opponent declaring that all the jungle terrain blocked LoS completely, except for the outer 1". I NEVER should have agreed to that.

EDIT: Obviously, I'll be informing my opponent of the mistake.

I played Raven Guard heavily in 7th, and still do. They have always been about controlling the battle from the top, rather than on the ground. I always viewed them as using both ranged and melee to their advantage and it still works this way. I'll go over general tactics I use, and then mention some real stars I have found for list building.

I always try to hit from two angles at once. I do this with a combination of long range threat, mid table control, and hitting flanks or the rear with deep strikers or SftS.

Raven Guard are very safe from shooting. This is doubly so from Plasma. This makes multiple wound models more valuable since one of the best, and most common counters to them are at a much larger disadvantage. Leverage this and make all those single damage weapons sub optimal. Even when you have single wound models though, you can take ablative wounds to make the target less juicy. The best part of this is using it to play mind games with your opponent. "You can shoot those devastators if you want, but you are at -1 to hit and they have a 2+ save in cover. You have to kill 5 before you will start taking out the weapons." I give my opponents public service announcements like that fairly frequently. Sometimes they call my bluff... but then they realize they just shot two dakka Knight's worth of stuff at them and managed to kill a single heavy weapon that is coming back next turn from my apothecary on a 4+.

Force multipliers are great too, because everything is so much harder for your opponents to kills. Apothecaries are even better because it takes more to remove every model or wound, and they just bring them back. Same goes with Ancients. It is demoralizing for your opponent to finally kill one of those damned Centurions or Hellblasters only to have them shoot them before they die, and then come back next turn. I usually take the Banner of the Emperor Ascendant to make this even better.

Try to give your opponent something to shoot at that either doesn't really matter to you, or is tough in it's own right. This will make them choose the more likely looking target over something that they should shoot at instead.

You can save points by spending command points. Vanguard Veterans without jump packs can be SftS into position on a budget, and you can skip transports for other units. Also flamers and meltaguns that are usually hard to make work effectively due to their range restrictions can really shine in a Raven Guard List.

Finally the units that stand out. Hellblasters are easily one of the best. Same with Assault Centurions and Aggressors. These units are prime candidates for SftS and can really make your opponent poop when he realizes what is going to be on his doorstep. This can cause poor positioning during deployment for him and opens the opportunity for a lot of mind games. Dreads of all kinds are amazing as well, since they benefit from the -1 to hit them. I prefer Contemptors, because they are hard to hurt normally, but Ironclads are truly scary as well. I usually play Raptors (I have since 7th) so with Lias I push 2 Devs and a Sternguard, and then I usually SftS some Hellblasters for a really hard hitting forward firebase that keeps my backfield from being targeted as they march forward.

Hope this helps!

Huh, that's a good point about your 2w models being safe from plasma from that -1, and I'm not leveraging that. Now I'm more tempted to replace a dev squad with hellblasters. Point cost and killing power seems close enough either way. I originally went devs to cut my deployment count down if necessary (I've got razorbacks for a lot of my anti infantry). But if not caring about deployment count, the Hellblasters might be the better route...I think only downside with the Hellblaster idea is they shoot best at <15", but you need 12"+ for the -1 to be shot, so fairly likely you give up 1 bonus or the other on any given round.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

bort wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I have a friend just starting 40k with Raven Guard, he really loves his scout squads full of snipers. Granted he's mostly played against my infantry guard horde so the snipers are probably a bit more effective than they'd normally be, but they serve him pretty well in my experience. From there he runs a couple of squads of primaris Intercessors (The primaris tac marines) a squad of hellblasters, some vanguard vets with lightning claws, shrike, and has been toying around with other stuff from there.

Off topic question, but if he just started, where did he get his Shrike model from? Shrike's the last guy I need for WYSIWYGing my current list and I can't find him in local shops or the online store.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to the topic, I've only got a few games in, but feeling kinda mixed on the stratagem. I usually take an Aggressor squad and 1-2 other units to use it on, which when I get to go first, seems great. But games I don't then I tend to get stuck deploying further away anyways and I'm not really feeling like I got my CP's worth. Those cases I wish I'd used Lias instead. ...Which maybe works out if I can't find a Shrike

Speaking of the warlord and traits, do you charge enough things with crazy deadly overwatch to get much use out of it? I tend to run my gunline guy as the warlord for Storm of Fire instead, but there are a few units out there I'd hate to charge.

He didn't get the Shrike model. We took one look at an official model, decided it was one of the doofiest looking character models we'd ever seen, and came up with this instead

Spoiler:

Yes, it's pretty ridiculous and over the top but I had a lot of fun building him. My friend is paying me to build/paint the army so whenever he ok's something I'm good to go. We cobbled him together from that character that comes in the Shadowforce Solak box and leftover parts from the FW Lightning claw assault squad that's unique to Raven guard. He definitely looks imposing on the table. He's one of the next things in line on the painting que.

As for tactics, that strategem is worth its weight in gold. If you're not impressed with it it means you're not picking the right units to infiltrate or the right targets for them to hit. Aggressors should be doing a decent amount of damage but I would probably pick Hellblasters or something else with more high strength punch. I know when they've been infiltrated against me its pretty scary with that 15" rapid fire range.

Alternatively you'd do a CQC unit and set them up for a stupid easy first turn charge or if you lose the initiative you hide it behind terrain. The nice thing about it is it lets you react, you don't have to set the models down until you know exactly what's going to happen. That is huge.

I think I recognize those claws from the FW Raven Guard special unit Sergeant!

bort wrote:
Huh, that's a good point about your 2w models being safe from plasma from that -1, and I'm not leveraging that. Now I'm more tempted to replace a dev squad with hellblasters. Point cost and killing power seems close enough either way. I originally went devs to cut my deployment count down if necessary (I've got razorbacks for a lot of my anti infantry). But if not caring about deployment count, the Hellblasters might be the better route...I think only downside with the Hellblaster idea is they shoot best at <15", but you need 12"+ for the -1 to be shot, so fairly likely you give up 1 bonus or the other on any given round.

My normal RG lists have a Spearhead with Rhino Primaris, 2 Dev squads with 3x Las, PC, and then a 10 man Hellblaster unit. 10 Hellblasters with the +1 to hit from the Rhino Primaris won't leave anything alive within 15" to worry about, at least nothing with enough punch to hurt you back. The Devastators are still great because of the extra range they add. Plus it makes your opponents have to make choices. Anytime you force your opponent to make hard decisions it's a win.

Something worth mentioning is you could take a Raptors detachment with Lias and whatever, and then a Raven-guard detachment with stuff you want to spec CP to deploy. This is also a way to get Shrike and Lias, or spend 3 CP to have a second chapter master for your fire-base while Lias does stuff closer to the front.

Without larger list changes, mine would be deciding between 5 Devs with 4 grav cannons to SftS forward or 5 Hellblasters. either one can be better depending on the target. (I could fit 6 easy enough pt wise which would prob give the edge to the Hellblasters especially with mobility, but then I'd have to buy a box of 5 for 1 model...)

Even 5 vs the 4 Grav Cannons I think you will find the Hellblasters perform better against almost every target. The Hellblasters will strip any save but a 2+ or invuln, will more reliably kill 2 wound models, and will in general have a better 2 wound roll. Plus with RG it is easy to get in RF range so 10 PI shots isn't all that far off to the 16 GC shots in damage output. Plus the Hellblasters have more versatility with movement options, and will be more durable. I find Hellblasters to be one of the absolute best units in the Vanilla Codex.

 Captain Garius wrote:
Even 5 vs the 4 Grav Cannons I think you will find the Hellblasters perform better against almost every target. The Hellblasters will strip any save but a 2+ or invuln, will more reliably kill 2 wound models, and will in general have a better 2 wound roll. Plus with RG it is easy to get in RF range so 10 PI shots isn't all that far off to the 16 GC shots in damage output. Plus the Hellblasters have more versatility with movement options, and will be more durable. I find Hellblasters to be one of the absolute best units in the Vanilla Codex.

The main holdup I have on swapping is that what few games I've gotten in so far have all been old style first to finish deploying goes first. Devs fit in a Razorback and can be deployed normally, if necessary. My 8 deployment min isn't ideal for securing first, but it's about as low as I can go without a Stormraven and lower than the average I'm seeing. Once swapped to Chapter Approved style I'm pretty sure I'll go Hellblasters along with a couple other tweaks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For reference, here's the quick outline of my current 2000pt list:

Forward group:
Shrike
3 Aggressors w/ boltstorms
10 VVs w/ 13 plasma pistols, 3 shields, 1 hammer
5 Devs w/ 4 grav cannons

Fire base:
Captain w/ storm of fire
Lieutenant
Ancient w/ Emperor Ascendant
5 Devs w/ 4 lascannons
5 Devs w/ 4 lascannons
4 Razorbacks w/ twin assault cannons
1 Rhino
5 scouts w/ bolters
5 scouts w/ bolters
5 scouts w/ bolters

Deployment count permitting, I SftS the Aggressors, Grav Devs, and possibly VVs. Then use 1 cp if desired to split the VVs in to 2. That still leaves me with 3-4 cps for midgame.

If unconcerned with deployment count, I was planning to drop the Rhino, split the VVs in to 2 units, and replace the grav devs with however many Hellblasters fit (7-8 I think).

I'd welcome any critiques though, I don't get to play very often anymore, so I have to rely on mathhammer a lot more than practical xp, unfortunately.

For Grav Devs VS Plasma Hellblasters, it really depends what you shooting at.

VS marines, the grav is better.
VS 2+/5++ terminators, the grav is better.
VS guardsmen, the grav is better.
VS rhinos, the plasma is better.

You can keep doing the math, but basically grav is better VS infantry and the plasma is better against tanks. The thing is, it's still not that good at killing vehicles. 5 Hell-blasters rapid-firing without re-rolls should put 8-9 wounds on a rhino, which doesn't even kill it. Against tougher vehicles, you do even less, and you probably lose the hellblasters the next turn no matter what.

Also, without re-rolls, which are harder to get when you SftS them, you lose 1-2 hellblasters each time to rapid fire if you overcharge.

Devs also have a much longer effective range, 24" vs 15", making them move likely to die the next turn, and benefit less, or not at all, from the raven guard chapter tactics. The hellblasters are harder to kill, though, with most weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also,

I'd say deployment number isn't that important. Most tournaments will be doing the +1 to go first for finishing deployment, so i would push for/suggest using it in any pick up games you play as well.

And even then, 8 seems to be enough to get auto-first about half the time, according to most of the games i've played that way.

This thread has got me thinking I really wanna play some raven guard.

2K:
Skrike
Lieutenant JP and Relic
3x 10 Scouts w/ Shotty
Company Ancient
Vanguard Vets w/ stuff
3x 10 Hellblasters
Storm Raven

Idea is to SftS all Hellblasters (or maybe not depending on opponent), Scounts bubble wrap Blasters and or tie up stuff that will cause problems. Ancient gives Blasters a chance to shoot back if I miss out on turn 1 and also maybe give extra over charged shots when they burn themselves. Vets and Lieutenant go in raven to minimize drops.

While I dont think this may be a very competative list It looks fun as and is sure to produce

bort wrote:

 Captain Garius wrote:
Even 5 vs the 4 Grav Cannons I think you will find the Hellblasters perform better against almost every target. The Hellblasters will strip any save but a 2+ or invuln, will more reliably kill 2 wound models, and will in general have a better 2 wound roll. Plus with RG it is easy to get in RF range so 10 PI shots isn't all that far off to the 16 GC shots in damage output. Plus the Hellblasters have more versatility with movement options, and will be more durable. I find Hellblasters to be one of the absolute best units in the Vanilla Codex.

The main holdup I have on swapping is that what few games I've gotten in so far have all been old style first to finish deploying goes first. Devs fit in a Razorback and can be deployed normally, if necessary. My 8 deployment min isn't ideal for securing first, but it's about as low as I can go without a Stormraven and lower than the average I'm seeing. Once swapped to Chapter Approved style I'm pretty sure I'll go Hellblasters along with a couple other tweaks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For reference, here's the quick outline of my current 2000pt list:

Forward group:
Shrike
3 Aggressors w/ boltstorms
10 VVs w/ 13 plasma pistols, 3 shields, 1 hammer
5 Devs w/ 4 grav cannons

Fire base:
Captain w/ storm of fire
Lieutenant
Ancient w/ Emperor Ascendant
5 Devs w/ 4 lascannons
5 Devs w/ 4 lascannons
4 Razorbacks w/ twin assault cannons
1 Rhino
5 scouts w/ bolters
5 scouts w/ bolters
5 scouts w/ bolters

Deployment count permitting, I SftS the Aggressors, Grav Devs, and possibly VVs. Then use 1 cp if desired to split the VVs in to 2. That still leaves me with 3-4 cps for midgame.

If unconcerned with deployment count, I was planning to drop the Rhino, split the VVs in to 2 units, and replace the grav devs with however many Hellblasters fit (7-8 I think).

I'd welcome any critiques though, I don't get to play very often anymore, so I have to rely on mathhammer a lot more than practical xp, unfortunately.

Give the Scouts different weapons and I'd be more a fan.