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Hello everyone! I recently became obsessed with a few models I have from an old game called Void that are still sold today, in certain badass versions. Essentially, they are modeled as science-fiction Roman legionaries, and some have swords while others have shotguns but they all have legionary shields. I want to make an army with them because I believe it will look badass on the table top.

My dilemma, though is how to use them. Below I list some ideas and criteria, but unfortunately not all of them satisfy me.

Criteria:
1) I would like them to have a 4+ or 3+ armour save, because their base lorica segmentata can pass for either flak or carapace, and I am imagining the shield gives +1. 4+ seemed about right.
2) WYSIWYG: I would like them to have swords and shotguns predominantly (willing to do some converting for special weapons, but on the whole, units of shotgunners or units of swordsmen.
3) I would like the army to be at least playable, even if I don't want it to win every game.

Things that match the criteria:
1) DKOK Combat Engineers: Shotgunners with a 4+ save. Pretty simple, but making a "romanesque" DKOK army is hard, because they lack a 'swordsmen' analogue and there is no useful model for the basic troopers. My army would essentially be HERE ARE SOME COMBAT ENGINEERS.
2) Adeptus Ministorum Crusaders: Perfect! Swordsmen with stormshields... but no place for the shotgunners, large issues with morale, and very difficult to build an entire army around.

Things I considered that do NOT match my criteria:
1) For the moment, AM veterans. They lack the carapace armour option, and can't all be swordsmen anyways, even if you could give them carapace.
2) Renegades and Heretics Marauders: The perfect unit (in damn near every way), but the 'romanesque' look is very much in keeping with an Imperial unit, not a Chaos unit, and even if some people don't mind me swapping the CHAOS and R&H keywords for Imperium and Astra Militarum - well, the game's not designed like that and imo it is a problem.
3) Space Marines: While I could plausibly see a 3+ save (or 4+ for scouts with shotguns!), the Toughness 4 is right out.
4) Sisters of Battle: 3+ and T3 is good, but the whole army flavour is very strange and there is no access to shotguns anyways.

Any ideas out there from you guys?

The 40k Shotgun is a really rare weapon. I don't think you're gonna find what you need exactly. Other than what you mentioned, the only things that seem plausible are

1) Tempestus Scions
2) Adeptus Mechanicus (Vanguard rifles can potentially do more wounds than you'd expect... that's shotgunny, right? The Sicarian Infiltrators guns are massive amounts of shots at very low strength, which could also be represented by shotgun pellets I guess, but their bases are huge.)
3) GSC.

On the bright side, all of those three can ally with your Astra Militarum.

I hadn't considered GSC.

Scions I kinda thought of, but the models clearly have shotguns... let me find a pic...



I don't think those could pass for much else, to be fair. And you're right, shotguns in 40k are super duper rare and I am sad for it.

I would definitely go the path of removing the shotgun and adding other weapons to them. They look ballin', but their weapon is honestly their weakest modelling feature. I would shed no tears in giving them Scion weapons or something.

 Purifier wrote:
I would definitely go the path of removing the shotgun and adding other weapons to them. They look ballin', but their weapon is honestly their weakest modelling feature. I would shed no tears in giving them Scion weapons or something.

I could - given the way it is held, it wouldn't even be very difficult. But 40k weapons are oversized, so putting an entire hot-shot lasgun the size of their bodies in their hand might look funky. I think the best solution is to use pistols, but then there's a WYSIWYG problem.

Would they work as Inquisition Crusaders? They seem a rather obvious option, as they're T3, human-sized models running around with large shields and swords. I don't have the rules right in front of me and any image I try to look at it fuzzy, so I'm not sure if they can, or cannot take Shotguns.

They could be an option at least, for the melee geared gentlemen.

Depending on their size as well, they could act as Heresy Era assault Marines armed with Shotguns/swords and Breacher Shields

Edit: Upon seeing the images you posted, they'd be perfect if you could use Adeptus Arbites on the table

Space Marine Scouts? The Swordsmen could be ones armed with a combat weapon. You may have to drop the shields though.

Thadin wrote:Would they work as Inquisition Crusaders? They seem a rather obvious option, as they're T3, human-sized models running around with large shields and swords. I don't have the rules right in front of me and any image I try to look at it fuzzy, so I'm not sure if they can, or cannot take Shotguns.

They could be an option at least, for the melee geared gentlemen.

Depending on their size as well, they could act as Heresy Era assault Marines armed with Shotguns/swords and Breacher Shields

Edit: Upon seeing the images you posted, they'd be perfect if you could use Adeptus Arbites on the table

I did consider Crusaders, but they're a single unit, that can only ever have swords and nothing else, and they're difficult to build an army around. Wouldn't mind including some units in my army though if necessary! It'd be nice for them all to be from the same <Regiment> though - no reason (in the fluff) that a Guard officer couldn't order his 'swordsmen' to stab the baddies harder. At this point it's just wishlisting; and crusaders are absolutely an option... but only for one unit type.

And yeah. Arbites. The lack of arbites makes me sadder than sad. Don't get me started.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Space Marine Scouts? The Swordsmen could be ones armed with a combat weapon. You may have to drop the shields though.

I thought about scouts. Scouts would be pretty damn good, but T4 turns me off, as these are pretty clearly mortal humans and not huge mutants. (They're even slightly shorter than Cadian guardsmen, though not by enough that they look small).

I'm a fan of the idea that a shield represents an extra wound. I don't suppose there's any Guard units that have 2 Wounds that are human sized? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

How about Solar Auxilia options? I don't know much about all the little options they've got access to that are different from Guardsmen; I did however, see a unit of dudes with weird looking axes... But I couldn't find anything with shields.

I'd say, your best bet with avoiding Super Humans and Crusaders; Scions.

Straight up just play them as Scions. Higher armor save, and call their Hot-shot las as being some sort of shotgun with an armor-piercing ammunition. Use the Shield/Sword dudes as Tempestus Prime with a sword.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I'm a fan of the idea that a shield represents an extra wound. I don't suppose there's any Guard units that have 2 Wounds that are human sized? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Sadly, no. I mean I could run each of them as a Platoon Commander or the like, but that's just frankly silly, if I may say so.

Thadin wrote:How about Solar Auxilia options? I don't know much about all the little options they've got access to that are different from Guardsmen; I did however, see a unit of dudes with weird looking axes... But I couldn't find anything with shields.

I'd say, your best bet with avoiding Super Humans and Crusaders; Scions.

Straight up just play them as Scions. Higher armor save, and call their Hot-shot las as being some sort of shotgun with an armor-piercing ammunition. Use the Shield/Sword dudes as Tempestus Prime with a sword.

I'm trying to stay in 40k rather than 30k. If it was 30k I'd just play the infinitely customizeable Militia list with Survivors of the Dark Age and Warrior Culture provenances and voila, space-romans.

And I am not trying to "avoid" crusaders, I'm actually very happy to use them. But I would like to have a sensible army with consistent WYSIWYG across the models, and having the shields be storm-shields on one unit while they're just +1 on another is confusing imo. I want it to be simple and cool.

Scions would work, but I don't want to just spam scions for days. Also, there's no real use for the sword and board guys (there are actually really neat models for officers in the same model range, so I'd use like a Legionary Decurion or a Praetorian or the like as the officers).

Too bad inquisition isn't viable right now. The old Inquisitorial Warband (with it's customizable Acolyte and being able to mix in a few Crusaders) was basically the perfect fit.

At this point you may need to swap the weapons, since the only other thing that could fit the criteria is Scions.

Embrace the Scion Spam! If your entire Army is Tempestus Scions, then it's not spam it's just a theme

My little Guard collection has about 30 Cadian Guardsman, while I've got upwards of 60 Scions.

The Sword and Board dudes can, as said, act as the Squad Sergeants who run around with melee weapons anyways. I'm not sure how you would represent their Pistol weapon, however.

The models are certainly unique, and unfortunately don't easily slot in to anything 40k can handle right now (Gives us Arbites!) so I'm not too sure what other options are out there for you.

Am I right in thinking they're too small to be Custodian Guard?

Thadin wrote:Embrace the Scion Spam! If your entire Army is Tempestus Scions, then it's not spam it's just a theme

My little Guard collection has about 30 Cadian Guardsman, while I've got upwards of 60 Scions.

The Sword and Board dudes can, as said, act as the Squad Sergeants who run around with melee weapons anyways. I'm not sure how you would represent their Pistol weapon, however.

The models are certainly unique, and unfortunately don't easily slot in to anything 40k can handle right now (Gives us Arbites!) so I'm not too sure what other options are out there for you.

Ok, ok, scions. Just keep the shotgun and call them "grenadiers"? Also, the pistol thing isn't an issue; I have enough holstered pistols and can glue them to the inside of the shield like where a legionary might keep a javelin, to be drawn by their right hand if they discard/sheathe the sword. You don't think people would have a problem with me using what is clearly a "shotgun" as a "hot-shot lasgun"?

vipoid wrote:Am I right in thinking they're too small to be Custodian Guard?

Far, far too small. Slightly shorter and more broad-shouldered Cadians, think like Catachan sized (though the shields tend to overshadow the fact that they look like gorillas, which is the problem with the catachans imo).

Stick some guitar wire coming from the backpack to the shotgun and it will silence any questions.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Stick some guitar wire coming from the backpack to the shotgun and it will silence any questions.

I suppose - honestly I like the shotgun fluff though, and I think a shotgun being -2 AP is fluffy if it's a saboted slug shell.

That said, it's an easy fix and it shuts people up.

then maybe stick some capacitors on the shotgun? I'm thinking soemthing like Borderlands 2, where some of the shotguns look more like plasma cannons than actual shotguns (and that's not even including the E-tech ones).

I personally, would have no issue what so ever playing against Shotguns being used as Hot-Shot Las. I'm relaxed when it comes to proxies in casual matches. Hell, a local Guard player uses Dollar Store Abrahms Tanks as Leman Russes

It's all about who you play against. There's some who may mope and pout that it's not WYSIWYG or such things. It's their choice to not to play against those units if they don't want to.

Edit: To clarify, I am A-OK with Proxies and counts as, as long as it's consistent. The same model that is being used as a Proxy for something in your list, isn't being used as two roles. Consistency is the key to not confusing and muddling things up.You'd have to only use them as one type of unit, with the Shotguns acting ONLY as the same weapon.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
then maybe stick some capacitors on the shotgun? I'm thinking soemthing like Borderlands 2, where some of the shotguns look more like plasma cannons than actual shotguns (and that's not even including the E-tech ones).

Hm.... hmmmmmmmm...... alright. I think I can do this.

I am still open to suggestions from out in the world, so keep on posting lads & lasses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hm, now the issue is the 4th guy in every box without a shield. I suppose I can just mix him in or leave him out. He'd have a 5+ armour save, so I can run him as Veterans, but then they'd have real shotguns, haha.

I'll figure something out.

Would make great Arbites. No rules yet although potentially rumoured to be coming to Necromunda depending on how you interpret GWs Necromunda comments.

Ok! I figured it out!

The list is:
1 Battalion:
2 Tempestor Primes (Using the Auxilia Decurion)

4 squads of Tempesus Scions (Using the 3 shield Convict Legionaries, with 3 boxes per squad. More on what happens to the 12 unshielded ones left over is coming! 12 boxes in total. The sergeants are 1 box of Convict Auxilia)

1 Vanguard detachment:
1 Company Commander (using Censor Agrippa)

2 veteran squads (6 shotguns in each using the unshielded model from the Convict Legionaries box, then one Convict Chain Gun Team in each as a heavy bolter, with one Convict Flamethrower in each, with one sergeant from another Convict Auxilia box (with the shields left off) in each)

1 commissar (using the Lictor)

All-in-all, after wargear and the like, its 728 points, which meshes nicely with my other regiment's 7th company: 1272 points for 3 Banehammer tanks.

The total 2k list will be 10 CP, 3 drops, with one tank with 22/25 transport (2 veteran squads, commissar, company commander) and 2 tanks with 21/25 spaces taken up (2 tempestus squads and 1 tempestor prime) in each.

Seems like a functional army, representing a fluffy battlegroup of 2 regiments cooperating (a cool Roman-themed infantry regiment and a superheavy tank regiment!) and I get to use the badass models.

Thanks everyone!!!!!! I am so excited.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Hm, now the issue is the 4th guy in every box without a shield.

Get some bluestuff and to make molds of shields, and you can make as many as you need.

http://www.greenstuffworld.com/en/reusable-blue-stuff/8-blue-stuff-mold-8-bars.html

My buddy and I are going to start duplicating legs, and heavy and special weapons.

Here's how i'd design shotguns.

Max range: 12"
Strength: 2
Armor Penetration: 0

If the target has an armor rating of 5+ or worse, this weapon can reroll failed wounds.

This weapon automatically hits its target. The number of hits follows the table below.

Target within 3" - 6D3 auto-hits; no restrictions
Target within 6" - 4D3 auto-hits; cannot wound 2+ or better
Target within 9" - 2D3 auto-hits; cannot wound 3+ or better
Target within 12" - D3 auto-hits; cannot wound 4+ or better

For example, if you are 5" away from your target, the shotgun does 4D3 auto-hits, but cannot hurt terminators, land raiders, or other 2+ units.

Something different, anyway.

 Marmatag wrote:
Here's how i'd design shotguns.

Max range: 12"
Strength: 2
Armor Penetration: 0

If the target has an armor rating of 5+ or worse, this weapon can reroll failed wounds.

This weapon automatically hits its target. The number of hits follows the table below.

Target within 3" - 6D3 auto-hits; no restrictions
Target within 6" - 4D3 auto-hits; cannot wound 2+ or better
Target within 9" - 2D3 auto-hits; cannot wound 3+ or better
Target within 12" - D3 auto-hits; cannot wound 4+ or better

For example, if you are 5" away from your target, the shotgun does 4D3 auto-hits, but cannot hurt terminators, land raiders, or other 2+ units.

Something different, anyway.

Sounds crazy! Maybe a bit complex lol

I know you don't like AM Marmatag but I can't really think of what else to run these lads as

I suppose you want to stick with Imperium.
Because they could make perfect Tau fire warrior breachers. They also have shotguns, and the shields can represent the effect of a guardian drone (it gives the FW a 5+ invul). The swords are they bonding knives.

fresus wrote:
I suppose you want to stick with Imperium.
Because they could make perfect Tau fire warrior breachers. They also have shotguns, and the shields can represent the effect of a guardian drone (it gives the FW a 5+ invul). The swords are they bonding knives.

I'd like to stick with Imperium sadly. It's good of you to think outside the box, but I had these guys in mind as more of a close-assault shock troops type army, which (while I know the breachers are Tau's version) the Tau aren't so great at. Also the opportunity for expansion is small; i.g. if AM veterans get carapace back in the 'dex then I can just run them, but as tau I'd just have to run them as breachers, breachers, and more breachers.

I don't mind people playing AM who like to play AM. What frustrates me is that it's the new cheese, and it's the dominant half or more in every single list. I would be equally frustrated if it was something else that was that overpowered, it's not a bias against Guards.

Anyway, if you're purely going for counts-as and not writing your own rules for them, I would agree that Guard are the logical choice, but probably not base guardsmen... Maybe an Ogryn profile? Not sure how you'd use the shotguns though.

 Marmatag wrote:
I don't mind people playing AM who like to play AM. What frustrates me is that it's the new cheese, and it's the dominant half or more in every single list. I would be equally frustrated if it was something else that was that overpowered, it's not a bias against Guards.

Anyway, if you're purely going for counts-as and not writing your own rules for them, I would agree that Guard are the logical choice, but probably not base guardsmen... Maybe an Ogryn profile? Not sure how you'd use the shotguns though.

They're waaaay too small to be ogryn. I was just going to have the shield guys be 4+ (scions, with the goal of becoming shotgun vets with a 4+ if the new codex restores carapace vets) and the unshielded guys being 5+.

I'm actually always willing to write my own rules, but I don't trust myself (and I doubt other people would trust me to do so) to make them balanced.

Veteran Squads can mount all shotguns. I'm thinking we might see options for better armor saves in the upcoming codex.