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Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Inspired by the Iron Hands thread, this thread is about ideas to make the Black Templars keyword less awful.

Starting off, I suggest the following change to the Chapter Tactic:

Righteous Zeal:

Models with the "Black Templars" keyword may reroll their charge distance. Further, models with the "Black Templars" keyword that lose their last wound in the Fight phase are not removed as casualties until the end of the phase (and may thus fight and confer their auras to other models as normal).


The current Righteous Zeal is a joke of a Chapter Tactic. It'd be decent in an army that had good melee support, but Codex: Space Marines is primarily a shooting army. The strongest melee units in the book still aren't that good. A change like this would give Black Templars a melee phase that isn't identical to shooting-focussed Chapters. It'd also fit with the stubborn nature of the Black Templars, refusing to go down without mauling the enemy in the process. Further, a bunch of the other CTs (UM and RG, looking at you!) would still be better, so it's not like this buff would break balancing.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






I think that's a great way of adding some extra oomph and flavour to BT.

Personally, I kinda wish their relic harkened back more to the previous BT codex.

Something like....

The Holy Orbs of Antioch (replaces frag grenades)

Range: 6" Type: Grenade D6 S4 AP -3, Abilities: Any enemy unit hit by this is wounded on a 2+ regardless of toughness. You may only use this once per game.

Also, more of their previous vows being represented as stratagems would be cool.

Suffer Not the Unclean to Live - 1CP
Use this stratagem during your opponent's movement phase whenever he attempts to have a unit Fall Back that is engaged in combat with a unit that has the Black Templars keyword. Roll a dice. On a 3+ that enemy unit may not Fall Back this turn.

Uphold the Honor of the Emperor - 2CP
Use this stratagem whenever an infantry unit with the Black Templar keyword suffers a wound. Until the beginning of your next turn, roll a dice each time this unit loses a wound. On a 5+, the damage is ignored and the unit does not suffer a wound.


   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

I don't mind the helmet, it's pretty good. I really do like that 1 CP thing though, there needs to be something to stop the enemy from just backing out and shooting you to death.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I don't mind the helmet, it's pretty good. I really do like that 1 CP thing though, there needs to be something to stop the enemy from just backing out and shooting you to death.


I figured it was the closest thing to its previous codex incarnation since it let you re-roll sweeping advances. Also, pretty fluffy since you don't get to run away from angry, angry crusaders!

Others have mentioned how lacklustre crusader squads are given that they're at their most optimal when they are outfitted MSU style with ranged weapons. Should crusader squads have more access to power weapons? Or do they just need more weight of attacks? I know a big issue is their mobility, but a lot of that has to do with design choices with how transports are largely overcosted (razorbacks aside...)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 20:29:04


 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





Black Templars can't lose models to failed morale tests when they are within 18" of an enemy psyker.

*shrug*
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Honestly, a part of me wants to throw in immunity to morale while in close combat and rerolls to hit in close combat because it STILL won't be as good as the best ones, which is kinda crazy.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




I like that chapter tactic, because it also means you can hit after being killed, a sort of 'Death Throes Lite' that can't give double attacks but ensures you always get to hit at least once.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/19 08:04:28


 
   
Made in gb
Boosting Black Templar Biker






I'd go with:

Rightous Zeal
Models with the Black Templars keyword may re-roll failed charge distances, additionally, on the turn a model with the Black Templars keyword charges, that model gains +1 Attack.

Nice, fluffy, and makes up for the SM primarily being a ranged force. Also, makes Crusader Squads and Assault Marines actually viable as close combat squads that should be rightly feared and kept at bay. (Also mitigates Overwatch losses somewhat).

Also, bring backs vows Emperor-damn it! BT are one of the best chapters in the setting, and we're relegated to sharing our toys with the Codex-compliant chapters when we're anything but codex compliant.

We can also add other options for Black Templar keywords:
Sword Brethren: Same stats as vanguard vets, but have the "Zealous" special rule, re-rolling misses in the first round of combat.

LRC at a reduced points cost (We invented it damnnit!)
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Izural wrote:
I'd go with:

Rightous Zeal
Models with the Black Templars keyword may re-roll failed charge distances, additionally, on the turn a model with the Black Templars keyword charges, that model gains +1 Attack.

Nice, fluffy, and makes up for the SM primarily being a ranged force. Also, makes Crusader Squads and Assault Marines actually viable as close combat squads that should be rightly feared and kept at bay. (Also mitigates Overwatch losses somewhat).

Also, bring backs vows Emperor-damn it! BT are one of the best chapters in the setting, and we're relegated to sharing our toys with the Codex-compliant chapters when we're anything but codex compliant.

We can also add other options for Black Templar keywords:
Sword Brethren: Same stats as vanguard vets, but have the "Zealous" special rule, re-rolling misses in the first round of combat.

LRC at a reduced points cost (We invented it damnnit!)

Sword Brethren like that is a bad idea as you're going out of your way to make Chaplains redundant.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Getting extra attacks on the charge back would be a decent alternative as well, and would indeed compensate somewhat for the lack of melee oomph.

As was pointed out, rerolls to hit has negative synergy with Chaplains (and Helbrecht!). This could easily be mitigated, however, by making your suggested "Zealous" rule give rerolls to wounds if you already have rerolls to hit (this'd admittedly hurt Lightning Claws slightly, but whatever).

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission



Eastern VA

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Getting extra attacks on the charge back would be a decent alternative as well, and would indeed compensate somewhat for the lack of melee oomph.

As was pointed out, rerolls to hit has negative synergy with Chaplains (and Helbrecht!). This could easily be mitigated, however, by making your suggested "Zealous" rule give rerolls to wounds if you already have rerolls to hit (this'd admittedly hurt Lightning Claws slightly, but whatever).


That'd be a pretty good reason to favor power axes over lightning claws, which fits the Templar look better than claws do, anyway.

~4500 -- ~4000 -- ~2000 -- ~5000 -- ~5000 -- ~4000 
   
Made in us
Uhlan




Dothan, AL

I have been a die hard Templar since 3rd ed first came out. I have hated the ebb and flow of the chapters uniqueness, as well as hating the "theft" of everything that made them unique. At least, finally, we are the only chapter to get the Emperors Champion (making that unit non-templar specific was actually heresy against the Emperor...), also the loss of unlimited LR Crusader while restricting everyone else.
Here were a few of the ideas I have had/discussed/tested out over time and applying them to this edition.
I like the Righteous Zeal described here. It definitely helps get the BT back into the close combat mentality that the chapter is famous for.

For units with the Chapter <Black Templar>, when allowed, these units can take a Land Raider Crusader or Redeemer as a dedicated transport choice in addition to the normal choices.
--Now we can have back transports, that don't eat up other slots, that can actually carry Crusader Squads

Chapter Tactic: "For the Emperor." Infantry and dreadnought units with the <Black Templar> Chapter keyword
Once per game, the unit can use the For the Emperor Tactic. When charging, these units gain a 6+ Feel No Pain save on the turn they charge.
--This gives some protection against overwatch and also gives them a slight boon once per game to make that important charge (and avoid some nasty mortal wounds maybe). Good only once though so not too over powering.

Chapter Tactic" Abhor the Witch". When a <Black Templar> infantry or dreadnought unit is in charge range of an enemy psyker unit (character, or unit), that unit must charge the enemy psyker. Additionally, the <Black Templar> unit may add 3" to the total rolled for their charge distance (this addition is only for the mandatory charges against psyker units).
--BT hate those pesky enemy psykers, not lets get 'em. While it may seem to excessive, the fact that it forces a charge can be a distinct disadvantage under some conditions.

New unit: Black Templar Dreadnought. Add options for the dreadnoughts to have two close combat weapons. Also add options for dreadnoughts to take a dreadnought size sword or axe and a dread sized combat shield.
--This adds in some more character to the dreads and also lets BT finally have a dread designed to fight in close (No matter what they thing,, the BA are not the prime CC army, BT are... those blood drinking heretics, why do they get the only double handed dread.... and then there are those funny grey puppy marines who have dreads with cool weapons,, why can't we).

Update the allowable units within BT armies such as they have done with BA, SW, etc. Take away the options for separate scout squads as BT do not field them that way. Add additional options to Biker squads. Provide options for addition of Neophyte bikers again. Change options to the bikers to provide CC advantages. Maybe some form of bike mounted combat shield (part of me wants to see them with combat shields and power lances, but I can let that one go.....lol)

Another consideration would be to not specifically restrict BT from taking certain units (other than scouts as they do not fit their background), but instead provide additional benefits to armies who conform to certain specifications or restrictions.

Work Vanguard and Sternguard squads out of the army list. Update and amend them instead to be the Sword Brethren squads (combine their options, but limit some of the ranged options and focus on their close combat options).

Allow close combat terminators the option to have the different power weapons options (ie. swords, axes, etc.) combined with a shield, instead of just claws or hammer and shield.


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I've watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those ... moments will be lost in time, like tears...in rain
 
   
 
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