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Hello everyone! So I am using these models to make a "Roman-themed" IG regiment.

I've already got the army list sorted (props if you read that earlier last week in 40k general) but I wanted help defining fluff.

I like the name Macharian Cohorts, but that implies a connection to Macharius and I was trying to avoid tying myself down to pre-written fluff.

Besides the name, I really have no idea how to proceed, other than the following:

I want the planet to be based on the late Roman republican system, so senate+consuls, big aristocracy, etc.
I do want to keep the theme of Latin names, etc.

Any ideas?

Marian Cohorts?
It sounds similar but avoids the reference towards Macharius (altough I think that the reference to Macharius is kinda cool actually) and instead references the Marian reforms of the Roman Republic in 107 BC (although not many people are likely to know that).

If you want to base your planet on the Roman Republic, it seems to me you already have much of the structure you need for your fluff. The structure of Roman society is relatively well known (and archaeologists are uncovering ever more information). I guess you could just read up on Wikipedia and begin to fill it in then. Planetary governor could be a consul or a figure equivalent to Caesar, Augustus and other early emperors (before they went all autocratic). Slaves could be abhumans, normal humans or even xenos, technology level could range from antique to high-tech, etc.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Marian Cohorts?
It sounds similar but avoids the reference towards Macharius (altough I think that the reference to Macharius is kinda cool actually) and instead references the Marian reforms of the Roman Republic in 107 BC (although not many people are likely to know that).

If you want to base your planet on the Roman Republic, it seems to me you already have much of the structure you need for your fluff. The structure of Roman society is relatively well known (and archaeologists are uncovering ever more information). I guess you could just read up on Wikipedia and begin to fill it in then. Planetary governor could be a consul or a figure equivalent to Caesar, Augustus and other early emperors (before they went all autocratic). Slaves could be abhumans, normal humans or even xenos, technology level could range from antique to high-tech, etc.

Well, no, that's my problem - I'm not trying to wholesale lift the fluff from the Roman Republic.

The models have little differences that make them not-roman, like the leg-pads, or the gas-masks. They look recognizably ROMAN but aren't just ancient legionaries that I glued lasguns to, if you get my drift.

So I am looking for ideas on how to lift the Roman Republican feel without taking the whole meat and potatoes if that makes sense.

As for the Marian Cohorts, that's awesome. The homeworld could be Maria, or Marius, like the actual general you mentioned.

Neat

I agree with Iron Captain on all points there

Another thing that's neat with 40k things inspired by historical stuff is you can work in a whole host of mythological references too

Romulus and Remus is a good start for that I think as that's one of the few bits that isn't stolen directly from Greek myths

Another thought, how about conscript units as abhuman auxilia

Well, easiest way to do it is to take the way Roman organisation was organised (Patricians, Equites etc.) and then adapt it to the more modern technology and religious nature of the Imperium.
When building a society, the first thing you need to ask yourself is where this society is going to be based on. Where does the elite derive its power from? For the Romans (and most pre-industrial) societies this was agriculture and land ownership, as well as descent (the Patricians derived their authority from being supposedly descended of the first senators in the time of Romulus). But for your society, this could be entirely different.

Let's be honest, Marius was a wimp! Sulla was far cooler :-p

In what ways are you looking to be inspired by the Romans, their military organisation? I think the way the Roman army was organised before the Marian reforms is more interesting, as it was more strictly stratefied by status wealth and age and therefore could inspire more modelling opportunities for different types of units.

I think doing a bit of reading on, and taking inspritation from, the organisation of the late WRE army with its frontier garrisons of Limitanei backed up by the more mobile and heavily armed Comitatenses (akin to the legions of Caesar's time) and bands of barbarian Foederati would be very cool as well.

You may end up with some heavy overlap with the Ultramarines (or are they Greek?), but this could work to your advantage. Basing your homeworld in the Ultramar Segmentum would imply heavy influence from the Ultramarines and all things roman in 40k. It would give a good foundation in which to graft the history of your regiment into the wider Imperium.

So I finally have access to a computer again! Here are my comments, point by point! Thanks for contributing so far!

Ynneadwraith wrote:Neat

I agree with Iron Captain on all points there

Another thing that's neat with 40k things inspired by historical stuff is you can work in a whole host of mythological references too

Romulus and Remus is a good start for that I think as that's one of the few bits that isn't stolen directly from Greek myths

Another thought, how about conscript units as abhuman auxilia

I wouldn't mind that, though I'd have to find models for abhuman Romanesque goons, which sounds difficult. As for mythology, maybe have the twin planets Romulus and Remus that share an orbit (though they're a bit askew) and there was a big war fought in the past that left Remus devastated, so Romulus remains the premier world in the system, while Remus is a radioactive/gassed/whatever hellhole where abhumans live (and are enslaved for mining or <insert horrible grimdark here&gt.

Iron_Captain wrote:Well, easiest way to do it is to take the way Roman organisation was organised (Patricians, Equites etc.) and then adapt it to the more modern technology and religious nature of the Imperium.
When building a society, the first thing you need to ask yourself is where this society is going to be based on. Where does the elite derive its power from? For the Romans (and most pre-industrial) societies this was agriculture and land ownership, as well as descent (the Patricians derived their authority from being supposedly descended of the first senators in the time of Romulus). But for your society, this could be entirely different.

That's true. So I was thinking descent would be a good place to start for these nuRomans (perhaps some claiming to be descended from the emperor a'la Caesar's claim to be descended from venus, presuming the Ecclesiarchy doesn't see that as heresy). I was also thinking that power could be derived essentially from military power: each noble house / patrician family would raise private military forces and if there was ever a dispute that the Senatus Mundus could not solve, it was solved by force. This means that the Imperium controls the planet easily, as all they must do to encourage one Patrician Family to win is throw a bit of muscle behind their forces on the planet, helping to keep the planet loyal though by rather violent means.

Essentially, they'd fight a Roman Civil War every time politics failed, which is like real life in some ways

Kroem wrote:Let's be honest, Marius was a wimp! Sulla was far cooler :-p

In what ways are you looking to be inspired by the Romans, their military organisation? I think the way the Roman army was organised before the Marian reforms is more interesting, as it was more strictly stratefied by status wealth and age and therefore could inspire more modelling opportunities for different types of units.

I think doing a bit of reading on, and taking inspritation from, the organisation of the late WRE army with its frontier garrisons of Limitanei backed up by the more mobile and heavily armed Comitatenses (akin to the legions of Caesar's time) and bands of barbarian Foederati would be very cool as well.

Yes, the pre-Roman legions are cool, with triarii, princeps, etc. Though I can blend the two, and have the late-imperial artillery crews and whatnot (wish I knew a name for them). I'd even be willing to reach into early ERE / Byzantine Empire stuff.

Mr Nobody wrote:You may end up with some heavy overlap with the Ultramarines (or are they Greek?), but this could work to your advantage. Basing your homeworld in the Ultramar Segmentum would imply heavy influence from the Ultramarines and all things roman in 40k. It would give a good foundation in which to graft the history of your regiment into the wider Imperium.

This is good input, though I actually don't like Space Marines in general that much. If I can find a cool connection (moreso than "They're both romanesque!") then I'd be down to start sewing things together.

I bet you could have a blast kitbashing Ungors and Cadians to get abhuman auxiliaries

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
I bet you could have a blast kitbashing Ungors and Cadians to get abhuman auxiliaries

I could, but they're not incredibly 'roman' in theme. Honestly, I am hoping there are more options for close combat weapons in the future - conscripts with swords would make an excellent sort of roman-themed peasant militia.

Why not use actual place names from the cities important in the era? My Rogue trader(Inquisitor) and his noble retinue hail from the fine world of Volterra, and its Scion companies “The Volterran Lions” or my homebrew chapter “Sons of Ilion” for example.

If you want a direct early Roman reference you could go with “Alba Longa”, “Latium”, but really any one of the ancient cities of Italy will give you the right sound.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Why not use actual place names from the cities important in the era? My Rogue trader(Inquisitor) and his noble retinue hail from the fine world of Volterra, and its Scion companies “The Volterran Lions” or my homebrew chapter “Sons of Ilion” for example.

If you want a direct early Roman reference you could go with “Alba Longa”, “Latium”, but really any one of the ancient cities of Italy will give you the right sound.

Good plan. Maybe the Samnites? Like the Latin tribe?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
This is good input, though I actually don't like Space Marines in general that much. If I can find a cool connection (moreso than "They're both romanesque!") then I'd be down to start sewing things together.

To back up the point the poster had made about perhaps basing the Regiment within the Ultima Segmentum; they do not have to be aligned and constantly work WITH the Ultramarines, and now the many other Chapters running about the place, due to new lore from the Dark Imperium book. They can be a regiment that was raised off of one of the Five Hundred Worlds in the Ultima Segmentum, and perhaps one that takes the general roman themeing of the region much further than the rest. I'm sure not all of the planets there have lore written about them already.

Their backstory of them being from the Ultima Segmentum does not tie them down to being in that region constantly. IMO, going that route would fill in a lot of potential gaps, and allow you to focus more on the Regiment itself, rather than the story of where they're from, what their political systems are, ect ect.

 Thadin wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
This is good input, though I actually don't like Space Marines in general that much. If I can find a cool connection (moreso than "They're both romanesque!") then I'd be down to start sewing things together.

To back up the point the poster had made about perhaps basing the Regiment within the Ultima Segmentum; they do not have to be aligned and constantly work WITH the Ultramarines, and now the many other Chapters running about the place, due to new lore from the Dark Imperium book. They can be a regiment that was raised off of one of the Five Hundred Worlds in the Ultima Segmentum, and perhaps one that takes the general roman themeing of the region much further than the rest. I'm sure not all of the planets there have lore written about them already.

Their backstory of them being from the Ultima Segmentum does not tie them down to being in that region constantly. IMO, going that route would fill in a lot of potential gaps, and allow you to focus more on the Regiment itself, rather than the story of where they're from, what their political systems are, ect ect.

Actually that's a good plan. Maybe they're so far removed that their homeworld is not so important.

So the plan is to have these guys be sort of "Storm Troops" (in the world war 1 and 2 sense: assault troops who clear out confined spaces in support of armoured assault, like Cold War Soviet Motor Rifle Battalions. That's why they all have shotguns). They are operating alongside my superheavy tank regiment for the moment, riding in Banehammer armoured transports up till they are disgorged into the enemy line.

My superheavy tank regiment is currently part of a fleet trying to penetrate the Cicatrix Maledictum and rescue a Shrine World on the other side. Not sure where to go from there...

Ooh the idea of them being tasked with getting through the Maledictum to save a shrine world is great next step i suppose is to try and think of what happens to them during that. What trials and tribulations are they going through trying to get through (i'm thinking you could make something that echoes the Teutoberg Forest with their journey through to the other side).

Basically the way i like to do fluff building is gradual. A lot of people sit down and write essays about what their worlds and armies are like, which are very interesting but are often tricky to digest.

So, the way I like to reveal fluff is say that you're only ever allowed to write a paragraph or so of fluff for each unique model or unit you make, such that whenever you present stuff there's a visual cue to help you tell the story

It also allows you the benefit of thinking time between updates so when new ideas come along you can incorporate them seamlessly

So, I vote that you tell the story of your regiment crossing the Maledictum (Rhine?) in little snippets alongside pics on a project blog, expanding the romanesque nature of the regiment and the trials they're going through

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Why not use actual place names from the cities important in the era? My Rogue trader(Inquisitor) and his noble retinue hail from the fine world of Volterra, and its Scion companies “The Volterran Lions” or my homebrew chapter “Sons of Ilion” for example.

If you want a direct early Roman reference you could go with “Alba Longa”, “Latium”, but really any one of the ancient cities of Italy will give you the right sound.

Good plan. Maybe the Samnites? Like the Latin tribe?

Heres a website with a lot of wonderful maps of the classical world, including two very good refrence maps of classical Italy when Rome was young and only one of several powers on the peninsula that could have become dominus of them all.

I'd just use one of the city names of a power that interests you, or one that just looks and sounds good to you.
https://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/history_shepherd_1923.html

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Ooh the idea of them being tasked with getting through the Maledictum to save a shrine world is great next step i suppose is to try and think of what happens to them during that. What trials and tribulations are they going through trying to get through (i'm thinking you could make something that echoes the Teutoberg Forest with their journey through to the other side).

Basically the way i like to do fluff building is gradual. A lot of people sit down and write essays about what their worlds and armies are like, which are very interesting but are often tricky to digest.

So, the way I like to reveal fluff is say that you're only ever allowed to write a paragraph or so of fluff for each unique model or unit you make, such that whenever you present stuff there's a visual cue to help you tell the story

It also allows you the benefit of thinking time between updates so when new ideas come along you can incorporate them seamlessly

So, I vote that you tell the story of your regiment crossing the Maledictum (Rhine?) in little snippets alongside pics on a project blog, expanding the romanesque nature of the regiment and the trials they're going through

Well the effect I am going for using Romans is to divest my fluff a bit from my superheavy tank regiment.

My superheavies are organized like a late-World War II guards heavy tank regiment, with a few companies: Tank Destruction, Assault, Breakthrough, and Line. (this is different than late world-war-2 russians, but is a result of the plethora of options available to IG superheavy tank regiments that weren't available to Guards Heavy Tank Regiments).

Their 'culture' however, is a mixture of late-medieval and victorian England (the aristocrats fight duels, and family names and honour are very important) and hyper-industrialized anti-labor "company towns" (people slaving away at factories for 12 hours per day stamping out the same machine part over and over, until the shift switches). A disparate, massive divide between Rich and Poor keeps this up, with the nobility having time for tea / duels / learning / stuff and the 'rough workers' barely having any time outside the factory save for an exhausted descent into sleep.

My Roman regiment, on the other hand, would be rather more egalitarian: still divides between rich and poor (as per the divides between the pre-Marian Hastatii and Princeps) but generally held together by esprit de corps and the "rich" who become officers still get stuck in the mud with the infantry (as opposed to the superheavy tank regiment, where the "rich" can ride in an air-conditioned building-sized supertank complete with ham sandwitches and tea while the other crewmembers do the grunt-work of maintaining the tanks, etc.).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carlovonsexron wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Why not use actual place names from the cities important in the era? My Rogue trader(Inquisitor) and his noble retinue hail from the fine world of Volterra, and its Scion companies “The Volterran Lions” or my homebrew chapter “Sons of Ilion” for example.

If you want a direct early Roman reference you could go with “Alba Longa”, “Latium”, but really any one of the ancient cities of Italy will give you the right sound.

Good plan. Maybe the Samnites? Like the Latin tribe?

Heres a website with a lot of wonderful maps of the classical world, including two very good refrence maps of classical Italy when Rome was young and only one of several powers on the peninsula that could have become dominus of them all.

I'd just use one of the city names of a power that interests you, or one that just looks and sounds good to you.
https://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/history_shepherd_1923.html

Oh my thank you very much! This is great!