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So a whole new edition that claims balance for our gaming.

Why do wraithlords still not work. Ive tried supporting them with gaurd, wave serpents, gaurd in wave serpents, fire prisms, gaurdians and warwalkers.

I play craftworld because ynnari are not eldar they are a collective of elven factions not content with the craft worlds status.

I find my Wraithlords work well and compare favourably with Marine Dreadnoughts. For a similar cost they are slightly tougher and faster but don't hit quite as hard in close combat.

Like a Dreadnought, the key thing to remember is that you will not see the value in them if you use them purely as a shooting platform. For a similar cost you can take a Wave Serpent which is tougher and faster and has comparable firepower.

The advantage of a Wraithlord is that it is quite handy in close combat. It is not a power house that can be thrown forward regardless but it is strong enough to act as a deterrent. If you are fielding Reapers, keep a WL nearby to babysit them. If your opponent tries to get close to assault them or drops some Deep Strikers nearby, the Wraithlord is enough to see off most units.

For a firebase baysitter, 2 Brightlances is a good combo (although expensive). The other option is to have Wraithlords advance with your Serpents to add some muscle. In this case, I would go with 2 Shuricannons and possibly a Glaive so that the WL can advance and still keep up a volley of accurate firepower.

I hope one of 3 things happens in the Craftworld codex:
1) The WL becomes a good deal cheaper
2) It loses 1 wound (for a total of 9, meaning its stats do not degrade
3) Both 1 & 2

Any of those changes would make the WL worth taking.

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I haven't had any problems with wraithlords in 8th. I've been playing a mixed craftworlds/dark eldar covens list with creepy puppet wraith and pain engine units, and the Wraithlords are frequently standouts.

What exactly do you have problems with them doing? I run mine with shuricannons and flamers running into close range and blowing stuff up.

I'm not sure why WL's are getting a bad rap either. For the points, they seem pretty excellent - and as the OP mentioned their close combat ability is why they would be taken over wave serpents (assuming you don't need more transport capacity).

I think the main issue is just that people rarely want this sort of hybrid CC/shooty unit. People rarely bring a comparable twin heavy bolter and fist Dreadnought, instead opting for all-shooty Dreads. It's very awkward to use, and meanwhile it's very vulnerable to lots of anti-tank weapons that your army might otherwise be pretty resilient against.

It's hard to justify heavy weapons on a Wraithlord, since you want it moving to get into CC -- if you're not charging forwards you should probably just take a Serpent. It doesn't have Battle Focus, so even if you give it Shuriken Cannons, you're taking a hit if you Advance with it, and regardless its firepower is pretty unimpressive for its cost.

Then even if it does get into CC it's not like it's super-impressive. It's only 3 attacks at S7 unless you take an expensive upgrade to bump them to S9. If it's taken some damage on the way in it might only be hitting on a 4+ or 5+.

And it really is very vulnerable. What other targets are you bringing for anti-tank guns? Wave Serpents are of course hugely more durable, as well as shootier. A BS3+ lascannon expects to do 16.46 points of wounds to a cheap (twin shuricannon) Wraithlord. It would do 10.8 points of wounds to a cheap Serpent. It would only do 14.9 points of wounds to a Hemlock. Even a cheap Wraithlord is likely to be one of the most fragile things you have on the table in the face of anti-tank fire.

This will sound like an odd substitution, but I think most armies running cheap Wraithlords would get more out of Shining Spears. The Spears' 6 shuriken catapults are comparable to the Wraithlords catapults and cannons inside 12", and then they have their laser lances which provide even more shooting inside 6" and much more CC punch. They're far faster, far more durable in the face of anti-tank fire, and are really not much more vulnerable to anti-infantry weapons than most other Eldar infantry.

vaurapung wrote:
So a whole new edition that claims balance for our gaming.

Why do wraithlords still not work. Ive tried supporting them with gaurd, wave serpents, gaurd in wave serpents, fire prisms, gaurdians and warwalkers.

I play craftworld because ynnari are not eldar they are a collective of elven factions not content with the craft worlds status.

I'd worry about this more in two months if the codex doesn't fix them. Index lists were and are a bandaid. Wraithlords ought to be more specialized like the rest of the eldar; it suffers from tac marine syndrome. It's average at multiple things rather than good at anything.

I love the Wraithlord, in my Meta. I tend to be the guy who brings big scary spooky models, at least one or two obvious threats in my list.

Everyone targets the Wraithlord with extreme prejudice. Even if it's only got two flamers and a Ghostglaive, they see it as the biggest threat on the board. Anti-armour weaponry is poured at my Wraithlord, rather than my far more deadly Wave Serpent with Wraithguard or Wraithblades and their escorting buff characters.

So, yes his stats are a bit lacking at the toppest tier of competitive play, his melee and shooting are pretty alright and he's a little overcosted for what he does.

But the Wraithlord's purpose in my army? He serves it perfectly. A distraction Carnifex.

So i play lords with glaive flamers and 2x shuriken cannons. They look awsome. Because of my shorter ranged army im usually trying to advance everything so i can at least get one round of shooting in. If i dont advance i get shot down before i can advance.

My current list employs gaurd and blades in serpents moving turn one onto the enemies side of the feild. My lords then hide behind the center building if its on the board. Then turn two is gaurd and blades coming out with the lords moving to assault positions. That gives me 6 units of threat that might kill 3 of my opponents units. The back lack is then half my army crippled or destroyed in the following turn.

The gaurd are actually harder to kill than the lord which is counter intuitive to the lords toughness and size. Since 6th edition ive felt all the lord needs to be an effective unit is access to a sheild for an invulne save.

As for the codex changing things. I havent heard that the other codexes done anything outstanding yet so i feel that no matter what they do unconventional eldar list will still be very underpowered.

vaurapung wrote:
So i play lords with glaive flamers and 2x shuriken cannons. They look awsome. Because of my shorter ranged army im usually trying to advance everything so i can at least get one round of shooting in. If i dont advance i get shot down before i can advance. .

Same here. I throw one or two near-ish the middle of the table so they can advance and threaten weaker close combat units. They're not super easy to bring down, so it's eating heavy shots or it's going to throw out some hurt when it reaches you.

I would like to see it get an invuln save option (maybe glaive + force shield 5++) to make them a little tankier for their cost.

Dionysodorus wrote:
I think the main issue is just that people rarely want this sort of hybrid CC/shooty unit. People rarely bring a comparable twin heavy bolter and fist Dreadnought, instead opting for all-shooty Dreads. It's very awkward to use, and meanwhile it's very vulnerable to lots of anti-tank weapons that your army might otherwise be pretty resilient against.

Not sure I agree here. Contemptor dreads are really good. That doesn't mean wraithlords are, of course.

I think I'd probably aim to keep points low and mainly use a wraithlord in cc. The glaive looks worthwhile I think. Two shuriken cannons, two catapults and a glaive comes in under 140 points, which really isn't much. You get a pretty respectable vehicle for the price, I think.

the_scotsman wrote:
I haven't had any problems with wraithlords in 8th. I've been playing a mixed craftworlds/dark eldar covens list with creepy puppet wraith and pain engine units, and the Wraithlords are frequently standouts.

What exactly do you have problems with them doing? I run mine with shuricannons and flamers running into close range and blowing stuff up.

Simply i have a problem with getting tabled like 2 out 3 games. If im not tabled im left so crippled by turn three that i cant do anything. As a whole i cant hit my opponent hard enough to stop their retaliation.