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Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

Hey gurus,
I have a single question:

I want to collect a Historic Army in 28mm scale. I know I can use several in the KoW games that my FLGS hosts using the KoW Historic Rulebook. Is there a HISTORIC Army any of you would recommend that could hold its own on a battlefield vs giants, elementals, zombies , wizards, dragons and steam powered tanks?!

All sorts of ones to consider: Crusaders, Samurai, Classic Greek, Imperial Roman, Biblical eras, Vikings, Gauls, Germania, Spaniards, Persians Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I haven't played KoW yet as I dont have an Army. I have both rulebooks (Fantasy and Historic).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/23 14:27:24


 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

I am also very interested in this topic. I love the idea of fielding a bunch of Spartans against an army of undead, elves or dwarves.
   
Made in de
Cataphract





Rhein Main Gebiet

Considering in Kings of War a Steam Tank is just a Elephant with a Balista I think you could not go wrong with Seleucids. They would probably have more unit options than Orc's anyway.

Apart from flying units and the Surge spell the fantasy part of Kings of war is not very fantastical, so Historical vs Fantasy is not such a big deal.


"What do you want?"
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
Morden and Vir, In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum 
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Historicals also get a few unique rules, like the roman units that are harder to wound with ranged attacks (many fantasy players are used to modifier to hit and spells ignoring them, it's much less effective in this situation), and the skirmisher rule of some historical units is also very nice.

There is also the "fantasy-lite" optionnal rules in the historical supplement that allow you to field a few generic surnatural units like wizards, giant or dragons in an historical army if you want.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

 StygianBeach wrote:
Apart from flying units ...
I'd say go for what you've got minis / a passion for Any of the historical lists should stack up well against most KOW lists, though historicals will feel 'weaker' competitively because they have very limited access to the prevailing Fast Flying Elite Meta that KOW has going on right now, where on the whole the strongest armies tend to have fast and/or flying units that reliably good at killing things. Which frankly excludes several KOW fantasy armies too (Like all metas there are a few standouts - Orcs have done very well at the highest levels, thanks to I think mostly very high nerve combat hordes, and Goblins are the rising scourge, with cheap hordes combined with loads of shooting options.)

Or to put it another way: KOW 2.0 doesn't particularly favor infantry, cavalry or standard shooting, which the historical lists are largely built around. This means that the historical lists can do fine, but like fantasy lists based around infantry, cavalry or standard shooting, they'll often be pushing against the meta. Which may be a plus or negative for you.

Amongst the historical lists, I do know that Mongols are markedly stronger than the rest, thanks to having unique access to skirmishing horse archers (the skirmisher rule is very strong, and a feature limited to the historical armies), with Romans a distant second (I'm not sure why they're so strong, though glancing at the list they have a lot of options, a lot of unique troops, access to foulkon (n) (defense against ranged damage, noted above), and some generally elite af combat blocks).

- Salvage

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2017/09/26 15:35:14


CORUSCATING III: AOS TIZZ REPORTS 
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Also note that the historical armies have access to musicians that are more or less similar to orc war drums, combined with skimirshing fast cavalry, you have a lots of tools to make a very decent army.

And if you really want a flying monster or two, as already mentionned there is an optionnal fantasy bestiary in the historical book that include many flying options (generic dragon/griffon/pegasus hero, pheonix, even generic Elohi (angels) and the corresponding hero), so if you really feel that you need some fliers to compete you have access to them if you want, and they will be part of your army and not allies (but restricted to 500 points if I remember correctly or something like that)

If you use easyarmy at http://kowh.easyarmy.com/ for the historical armies, don't forget to check "Display Mythical Creatures" (top right of the page) to get those options

   
Made in us
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

jtrowell wrote:
Also note that the historical armies have access to musicians that are more or less similar to orc war drums
Which is pretty sweet, as it's become clear that the real defensive stat in KOW is Nerve and not Defense (ok: Speed, then Nerve )

- Salvage

CORUSCATING III: AOS TIZZ REPORTS 
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Both are good, just not against the same thing : when facing a few very powerful attacks like those form a monster, having a big nerve is much better, as the huge giant will wound on 2+ most targets anyway, while when facing a large number of less powerful attacks you usually want a strong defense so the damage is kept low
   
Made in za
Gore Spattered Punk Zombie





South Africa

I would rather make a themed Kingdom of Men list and keep the historical and fantasy rule set separate.


Resurrectionists 
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

Some of the historical armies have more options than the fantasy human armies when you include the mythical units. I have not looked into many of the armies, but Vikings for example look great. They have access to two great heroes, the massive berserker legion with -/29 nerve! and of course the very good mythical section and good options in the generic historical list. I think the lists that are fleshed out ok should hold their own just fine, at least on level with KoM / brotherhood / League.

The lists that have clearly not gotten much love, the Polish for example, will probably struggle more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/02 15:26:09


   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

Fantastic guys. I am going with romans. I'll look into the fantasy creatures. Unfortunately Romans are pretty weak when it comes to mounted horse archers. Haha.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

Well, after months of listening to Mongolian Folk Metal, I have decided to revisit this thread in the plans of starting Mongols using the Old Glory range of Mongolians.

For those that picked up Historical armies to run against Fantasy armies, how have you been doing?

Any tips and tricks with Mongols? Just bought the Historicals rulebook tonight in the plans of giving it a good read before buying any models. But I am planning on throwing in some of the mythical elements after doing some research into Mongolian folklore and mythology.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 07:24:17


 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

You think you can just drop a phrase like "Mongolian Folk Metal" and get away with it? What in the hell is a kid from Texas doing listening to MFM? What is MFM?

No advice just finally starting my KOW Romans.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




Denver

The first few Tengger Cavalry albums on Metal Hell Records are fantastic. I like forward to seeing some photos and bat reps of your project.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 19:02:29


 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

Alpharius Walks wrote:
The first few Tengger Cavalry albums on Metal Help Records are fantastic. I like forward to seeing some photos and bat reps of your project.


Those albums are fantastic. Have you listened to Nine Treasures or Hanggai? They are both incredible.

 doktor_g wrote:
You think you can just drop a phrase like "Mongolian Folk Metal" and get away with it? What in the hell is a kid from Texas doing listening to MFM? What is MFM?


Haha, music is a universal language! I listen to eveything since I moved around lot for school, work and the military.

https://youtu.be/h1UhoGJ2PwA

https://youtu.be/0kCTc7Mdkb0

https://youtu.be/rAQsFN64rEQ

https://youtu.be/KhkeqeUX4tk

I plan to picture my Mongols as fighting against plains demons (my regular opponent will be the equivalent of Fantasy Daemons in Kings of War), or fighting the savage northmen and their mystic spirits (looks like we may be able to get some of the AoS players to try out KoW, and one of them plays Khorne with a few Daemon Princes).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 19:04:17


 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




Denver

Nine Treasures is in my band camp queue to purchase. I will have to look up the other one, thank you for the tip.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

Alpharius Walks wrote:
Nine Treasures is in my band camp queue to purchase. I will have to look up the other one, thank you for the tip.


Check out that last link I posted than.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, how small is too small to be considered a Giant? I have found some sweet 54mm Mongols that I planned to use as Giants and call them "fragments of *blank* god", or physical manifestations of their god's support.

Edit 2.


Well, been dorking around with lists, and even though I haven't gotten my rulebook in yet I think this looks pretty fun.

Genghis will roll with the Lancers on either side of him, with a unit of Skirmish Horse Archers in front and the Skirmishers running to protect the Lancers flanks and the Giant behind Genghis.

Two units of Skirmish Horse Archers with each Standard Bearer going up the flanks to fire shots off.

I really wanted Surge on the Wizard for the Giant, but I ran out of points.
[Thumb - Screenshot_2018-04-04-17-44-50.png]

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/04/04 22:58:21


 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

Well, I just bought my first model for the army.

This is from Pegaso Models in Italy, it is a 75mm Mongol I will be using as my giant. Not bad for 45 USD.

I included a rough picture of size. I think he will make a good giant...
[Thumb - b2b_PEG_75-128_1.jpg]

[Thumb - b2b_PEG_75-128_2.jpg]

[Thumb - b2b_PEG_75-128_3.jpg]

[Thumb - b2b_PEG_75-128_4.jpg]

[Thumb - Sebitar-Ragnarok_Viking-comp1-1.jpg]
Rough Size Comparison.

   
Made in us
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

You can only surge things that have shambling - giant has strider, which is a great rule, if very different!

Speaking of giants, I think he'll work fine, especially going by that size comp. Given the abstraction of the game and height being a set attribute, you're pretty free to do as you like, as long as you aren't confusing opponents who are allergic to asking for clarification.

- Salvage

CORUSCATING III: AOS TIZZ REPORTS 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

Ah. Thank you for the information Boss Salvage!

Yeah, I don't think it should be too confusing what he will represent in my army. I am going to green stuff in the mounting points for the bow and quiver since KoW giants don't have ranged attacks.
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

The «giant» looks great!

The list itself looks playable enough, not super optimized, but looks like it can give a decent fight to most things.

   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

 Illumini wrote:
The «giant» looks great!

The list itself looks playable enough, not super optimized, but looks like it can give a decent fight to most things.


Yeah, I wasn't aiming for super competitive. Just something that would have fun in a casual group and play how I think Mongolians would actually fight.

   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

Out of curiosity though Illumini,

Say I wanted to take this army to a tournament, how would you suggest I change it? I only ask because I plan to just buy everything for it at once to save on the models and shipping.
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

That is a question with a lot of different correct answers

I don´t think you need the skirmishers, and at 90pts, they are fairly expensive for what you get. To optimize, those points should probably go into mystical, or if you want some crappy / lightly armed infantry because of models, then levy looks very nice for scenario presence and nerve for the points. You can almost get two hordes of levy for the same cost, which is 4 more unit strength and about a million more nerve

50 horse archers seem a bit much, and I would consider using some troops so you have more chaff. It is painful if you have to throw 180pts of horse archers in front of enemies. Switching some for skirmish lancers, mongol lancers, cavalry or mythical units is probably more efficient, as you are a bit light on hitting power.

The wizard I would cut down to just bane chant and a horse. Heal 2 is practically useless, yew bow should be on a standard bearer instead.

Musicians are very good, so getting one so you have rally 2 cover of most of the army is a good move. You can switch out a standard for a musician with inspiring banner.

The mythical section is also pretty amazing, there are some ways to optimize through that, but I won´t go into that since I don´t know what you feel fit your theme.

Keeping fairly close to your original, it might looks something like this:

3x10 mongol horse archers
3x10 mongol lancers
2x40 levy
1x5 cavalry
Djengis
Standard, bow, horse
Musician, banner, horse
Wizard, banechant, horse
Giant

   
Made in us
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

Nice list tweak Illumini, I think you've nailed it. Especially making use of a Musician, one of the few things historicals have that fantasy doesn't.

Aside, I was like, Mongol Levies? But at the very least Total War's heard of them: http://totalwar.wikia.com/wiki/Mongol_Levy_Spearmen For which I presume they did their homework.

- Salvage

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/09 20:00:00


CORUSCATING III: AOS TIZZ REPORTS 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

 Illumini wrote:
That is a question with a lot of different correct answers

I don´t think you need the skirmishers, and at 90pts, they are fairly expensive for what you get. To optimize, those points should probably go into mystical, or if you want some crappy / lightly armed infantry because of models, then levy looks very nice for scenario presence and nerve for the points. You can almost get two hordes of levy for the same cost, which is 4 more unit strength and about a million more nerve

50 horse archers seem a bit much, and I would consider using some troops so you have more chaff. It is painful if you have to throw 180pts of horse archers in front of enemies. Switching some for skirmish lancers, mongol lancers, cavalry or mythical units is probably more efficient, as you are a bit light on hitting power.

The wizard I would cut down to just bane chant and a horse. Heal 2 is practically useless, yew bow should be on a standard bearer instead.

Musicians are very good, so getting one so you have rally 2 cover of most of the army is a good move. You can switch out a standard for a musician with inspiring banner.

The mythical section is also pretty amazing, there are some ways to optimize through that, but I won´t go into that since I don´t know what you feel fit your theme.

Keeping fairly close to your original, it might looks something like this:

3x10 mongol horse archers
3x10 mongol lancers
2x40 levy
1x5 cavalry
Djengis
Standard, bow, horse
Musician, banner, horse
Wizard, banechant, horse
Giant


I see, yeah, that does seem a bit more well rounded, I see your point on Heal (2). It does seem to be a bit garbage haha.

I don't mind exploring more into the Mystic section, since I have only bought my Giant so far, that wouldn't be a problem. I definitely like your thoughts on army composition. The levy seemed to be a bit out of place until I researched more into the Mongols and their "conscriptions" in the places they conquered. Did you take a Troop of generic Cavalry just for the points? Or was it because of Nimble?

Been churning through bat reps while waiting for my rulebook to come in. I am very excited for this army. Now time to sell my 40k Guard army to fund a second KoW army!
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





@NH Gunsmith: Why did you want Surge for the Giant? He doesn't have Shambling, so Surge cannot be legally cast on him.

Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead
Kings of War Historical: Macedonian
Dropzone Commander: PHR
Blood Angels Necron [WiP]

 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
@NH Gunsmith: Why did you want Surge for the Giant? He doesn't have Shambling, so Surge cannot be legally cast on him.


Hah, that has already been discussed earlier in the thread. It was me just not knowing the rules.
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





Ah, excuse me, I missed that. Still, there is the Skeleton Warrior option in KOWH if you want to give that a try. When I have Shambling units and Surge, I do better when playing KOW. It seems easier for me to get a flank charge.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
@NH Gunsmith: Why did you want Surge for the Giant? He doesn't have Shambling, so Surge cannot be legally cast on him.


Hah, that has already been discussed earlier in the thread. It was me just not knowing the rules.

Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead
Kings of War Historical: Macedonian
Dropzone Commander: PHR
Blood Angels Necron [WiP]

 
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

The troop of cavalry is to get a decent flanker and chaff unit. It is much easier to flank when you have nimble and such great speed. It can however easily be swapped for something else, like a flyer from the mythical section.

If you want to go more into mythical, these are some of the most interesting choices from mythical for your list IMO:
- General on winged beast
- Nightmarish hero
- Hero on winged beast
- Phoenix

   
 
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