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Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

We all know how terrible the rules are for terrain. What counts as within or on terrain isn't really defined. And then we have this gem to make use of it.



So, let's look at some GW terrain.

If I'm on the first floor of this (bottom floor,) am I within terrain? If so, how far does that stretch? Why not fix this stuff before making more rules reliant on it. Especially one that relies to some extent on surprise like this one. Sure, you can ask "where do I count as being in cover on the first floor here?" but it still sort of will give your opponent the nod that you might be setting up for making vicious traps happen.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/25 15:51:58


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

Put a base on your terrain, suddenly you can define what the terrain counts as.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

All land is terrain.

Anything in water or air is safe.

   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Put a base on your terrain, suddenly you can define what the terrain counts as.


Oh, absolutely, I think this is the way to go at the moment, but that's us fixing GWs lazy rules-writing approach to their own terrain kits.

nareik wrote:
All land is terrain.

Anything in water or air is safe.


The ground is reverse-lava!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/25 15:58:24


 
   
Made in ie
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle






Purifier wrote: Sure, you can ask "where do I count as being in cover on the first floor here?" but it still sort of will give your opponent the nod that you might be setting up for making vicious traps happen.


I don't think you'd necessarily give the game away by having this discussion with your opponent before the game, since this would be a good way of avoiding any misapprehensions over who or what actual benefits from cover. Besides if your opponent is aware of the stratagem chances are they already have a healthy paranoia about charging into terrain, whether or not you have this discussion

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/25 16:20:14


 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

All my terrain have bases, even the scatter ruins, barrels, etc... terrain. Maybe thats why I have 0 problems with 8th terrain rules. I can put a 30 boyz mob into ruins because they have like a 30cm base where they can stay.

Do your ruins like this and then you have no problem

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/25 16:27:36


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

We call things based with a long steep lip like that model-tumblers. But I get your point, it's definitely better to give every piece of terrain bases in 8th.

 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Yeah, I'd recommend getting some thin cardboard or plasticard to stick free-standing terrain to, so you can physically define its area while still being easy to move models over. A bit of painting and texturing and it will probably look nice too.
   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

Complaints regarding terrain rules in 8th are baseless.

The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Purifier wrote:
...If I'm on the first floor of this (bottom floor,) am I within terrain? If so, how far does that stretch? Why not fix this stuff before making more rules reliant on it. Especially one that relies to some extent on surprise like this one. Sure, you can ask "where do I count as being in cover on the first floor here?" but it still sort of will give your opponent the nod that you might be setting up for making vicious traps happen.


The short and easy answer is to put your ruined buildings on a base (plain ordinary corrugated cardboard does the trick just fine). If you're on the base you're in the ruin. If you're not on the base you're not in the ruin. Tada. Problem solved.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in se
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 Hollow wrote:
Complaints regarding terrain rules in 8th are baseless.


I see what you did there.

 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Maine

 Hollow wrote:
Complaints regarding terrain rules in 8th are baseless.


Why I oughtta!... lol oh
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Hollow wrote:
Complaints regarding terrain rules in 8th are baseless.


I disagree. 8th editions rules for cover lie in ruins.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







pismakron wrote:
 Hollow wrote:
Complaints regarding terrain rules in 8th are baseless.


I disagree. 8th editions rules for cover lie in ruins.


Har de har har. If we keep picking through the rubble we may find something salvageable.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

It’s not worth doing that. Tear it down, brick by brick, and rebuild it.



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in se
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 Verviedi wrote:
It’s not worth doing that. Tear it down, brick by brick, and rebuild it.


We can rebuild it, we have the technology!

 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






The solution when there is a dispute over terrain boundaries is to roll off for it. On a 4+ you get to roll for a 4+ to see if you get to roll to see if you do anything. Welcome to 8th, where everything is RNG and strategy is for losers.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Peregrine wrote:
The solution when there is a dispute over terrain boundaries is to roll off for it. On a 4+ you get to roll for a 4+ to see if you get to roll to see if you do anything. Welcome to 8th, where everything is RNG and strategy is for losers.


Las Vegas makes a ton of money based in that principle... At least GW staff don't broke your legs if you have too much strategy.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

 Peregrine wrote:
The solution when there is a dispute over terrain boundaries is to roll off for it. On a 4+ you get to roll for a 4+ to see if you get to roll to see if you do anything. Welcome to 8th, where everything is RNG and strategy is for losers.


After a couple,big terrain arguments, we just starting sticking pieces of paper under anything without a base.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




GW sucks.
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

 Peregrine wrote:
The solution when there is a dispute over terrain boundaries is to roll off for it. On a 4+ you get to roll for a 4+ to see if you get to roll to see if you do anything. Welcome to 8th, where everything is RNG and strategy is for losers.

Strategy? Whats that?

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in de
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




France

 Hollow wrote:
Complaints regarding terrain rules in 8th are baseless.


This caught me of guard
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






but only on a 4+
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





Rosedale MD

Even in 7th ed terrain basing was a good idea. Now even more so. However, if you don't have bases you should definitely have the "what counts as what" terrain talk.

BloodGod Gaming Gallery

"Pain is an illusion of the senses, fear an illusion of the mind, beyond these only death waits as silent judge o'er all."
— Primarch Mortarion 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One





New Westminster, BC - Canada

I usually go with "Models at least 3'' away from a ruined wall, cliff wall and/or other similar terrain piece counts as it is within that terrain"

-- Arhurt
Wargaming Rebel - My Personal Blog

Dakhma Dynasty - My Necron army with unique convertions
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




"Vicious Traps" -- I can hear EgoQueenAlexis giggling now.
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Even when there's no base for a ruin, my group has always just went with the 'foot print' of the ruin counts as it's base for determining if a unit is in the ruin or not when on the ground floor. Seems to work well

"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 NurglesR0T wrote:
Even when there's no base for a ruin, my group has always just went with the 'foot print' of the ruin counts as it's base for determining if a unit is in the ruin or not when on the ground floor. Seems to work well


We do the same. We have up to 17 ruins on our city board and this has been the smoothest system for us.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Bases on terrain helps (sorta) but the issue is often with larger models like tanks or MCs where their base or hull rarely fits ENTIRELY within a piece of terrain and covering 50% of the model. Also larger squads have a really hard time fitting into a piece of terrain without just piling in models like a clown car to squeeze everyone in. Getting cover during deployment isn't impossible but as the game goes on unless your being stationary then its really hard to gain the benefits of terrain when your moving from point A to point B. Lastly cover is way too good for high armor models while it doesn't do enough for low armor models (the same models that use to rely on cover saves back in 7th).

House rules make things more enjoyable but in PUG games its generally going to be rules by the book and RAW cover rules are just a dumpster fire.

"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





 Vankraken wrote:


House rules make things more enjoyable but in PUG games its generally going to be rules by the book and RAW cover rules are just a dumpster fire.


Indeed.

I think all the cover rules really need is to change the ruling for vehicles that all they need is to be 50% obscured from the firing unit, job done.

Infantry cover rules are fine as is. Need to be in terrain to claim benefit of it. Advanced rules cover all the other pieces for infantry (woods, barricades, craters etc)

"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


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