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Ok, from time to time someone asks if he/she could use 40k models in 30k and usualy the answer is "yes". I myself am right now making tartaros Sekhmet from the 40k Scarab Occult kit, since there is no official 30k kit for them. But there are some issues that arise when we use the Thousand Sons or Death Guard Models in 30k. Or some Primaris Marines.
1) The Details. 30k marines are not very fond of trinkets and stuff, so they are much less ornate than TS or DG models and they would not fit into the bleak and uniform marine envirionment. They could go for characters, but not for rank-and-file marines.
2)The Fluff. 30k is more about fluff, than 40k and fluff makes one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game. Symbols and visual aspects are part of the fluff as much, as the paintjob. With that in mind you might justify bird skulls on Scarab Occult armour by saying the belong to the Raptora cult or that Nurgle symbols are some trophies. But that has to be presisely measured so that they don't disrupt the overall visual.
3) The Size. 40k models appear to be larger and while the Scarab occult aren't that much bigger than the tartaros termies, the Rubrics and Plague Marines are much taller than the regular30k marine and Primaris are just as tall as Custodes. The Primaris COULD be used for Alpha Legion guys, but would hardly fit into other armies.
Overall, it's your armies and you are free to do what you want. But what do you think about the issues of using 40k models in 30k?

Scarab occult are fine, tho I would try and take off the worst excesses of tzeentch symbols and bird skulls.

' The Line' varies for everyone. Mine is probably...

Ok with 40k rhinos and land raiders but would expect some conversion.

Big no to Primaris.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Here's a rant on the topic.. Don't entirely agree but it's good to see other people's thoughts.

https://youtu.be/4248SpFlA7Y

I think it depends on the persons/groups taste. For me personally I see it as a more open arena in what you do, as long as there is a rational behind it. It’s closer to historical war gaming than 40k but at the same time it’s not. It still is a fictional setting, but more importantly it is a galaxy wide conflict, to argue absolutes (“x is not a thing”) is a very slippery slope- arguing what “your dudes” would do or should be like in a fictional setting is always a tough sell.

For example I agree many legionaries don’t have ornamentation in the books, but I can see a couple of legions having ornamentation on the squad level. Emperor’s Children, Blood Angels, Thousands Sons, and Salamanders are all legions that I can easily see normal marines embellishing their armor with various items. All these legions place emphasis on ideals that naturally lead to modifying their armor, and many lineman are still veterans of decades of war easily. Sons of Horus, Night Lords, and Word Bearers also would personalize armor but with spikes, trophies, or scripture. Looking at Horus Heresy art I would say both approaches are equally valid. It’s the “why” over the “what” essentially. For example if someone told me their army was a DG army that was resupplied by Zhao Arkkad (which happened in the fluff) so they had TS FW helmets and torsos in their DG army as surplus then I would say that’s awesome. Without the explanation I’d think it weird, but it breaks the stereotype of what a DG should look like while adding flavor to the force in a manner that makes sense. As long as someone can rationalize their choice to me in a way that is plausible then I would have no issue, aesthetic and style is highly subjective so this is how I try to set an even standard when it comes to choices outside the traditional fluff.

Scale for me also isn’t an issue as long as they are consistent, people do true scale projects all the time after all.

I mean, things like using Death guard which are in scale and just don't represent the Horus Heresy era death guard I personally wouldn't like, but then I'm not so rigid I wouldn't play against it.

It really comes down to your local playgroup and what they'd prefer, and of course for events it's down to the TO's discretion.

pretty much all vehicles are ok with me so long as they have the appropriate loadout, ie. no lascannon preds or land raider crusaders/redeemers.
as for marines and such anything from the 40k loyalists is good as long as the Armour has no obvious mkvii parts, ie. heads, shoulder pads, backpacks and torsos and there is no overuse of mkvii legs and arms and there are no character models used. Primaris are an absolute no, I would flat out refuse a game to someone using primaris models in 30k.
a lot of the CSM HQ models are good for wordbearers so long as they are not character models, as for the TS range, the terminators are perfect, I would have no problem with them being used so long as the overtly tzeench-y stuff is filed down/clipped off, the tactical marine squad would be a good place to scavenge for bits for sergeants or HQ models so long as they are not overused. DG is a little trickier as they underwent a much bigger visual change than the TS, I would say the odd model being used as a high ranking sergeant or HQ would be fine but that would be all.

As for TS terminators - the tzeenchy symbols can't be completely be gotten rid of, you can just lessen their size. The most obvious way is to switch to normal tartaros bolters. As for the iconography - scarabs are a prominent pre-heresy symbol, eyes can represent the Eye of Magnus, also a prominent symbol, while bird sculls can represent the cult symbol of the Raptora - a predatory bird. I attached a picture of what I made my models into and how I see the acceptable level of mixing 40k TS stuff into 30k.

Captyn_Bob wrote:


Ok with 40k rhinos and land raiders but would expect some conversion.

Why? Those models existed at the time, and there are rules for the phobos raider in the books. What conversions would be necessary?

MKVII+ legs, chest and helmet is a big no-no for me. MKVII arms are fine as I do believe there is art that shows that similar styles of arms were in service durig the time and the backpacks are so similar to MK IV backpacks I'd just write if off as a production difference. Stormtalons and Stormravens are right out. The current Death Guard stuff is just too oversized for 30k. As nice as the models are. When it comes to LoS it does become an issue when the models are that out of scale.

Plastic rhinos and land raiders are fine with me. I personally phased out the ones I had in my army (Aesthetic thing. I just wanted my 30k army to feel "more 30k") but it's 100% kosher with me if someone else uses them.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
MKVII+ legs, chest and helmet is a big no-no for me. MKVII arms are fine as I do believe there is art that shows that similar styles of arms were in service durig the time and the backpacks are so similar to MK IV backpacks I'd just write if off as a production difference. Stormtalons and Stormravens are right out. The current Death Guard stuff is just too oversized for 30k. As nice as the models are. When it comes to LoS it does become an issue when the models are that out of scale.

Plastic rhinos and land raiders are fine with me. I personally phased out the ones I had in my army (Aesthetic thing. I just wanted my 30k army to feel "more 30k") but it's 100% kosher with me if someone else uses them.

I agree with the rhino and land raiders, and in book 1 page 147 there's a normal plastic land raider (albeit with the FW extra armor) in one of the opaque background pictures, which is cannon for me since they are models in the 30k setting placed by the creators of the setting for the book, so there is no reason to prevent someone from using it. I'll have to check for rhinos later... Now for MK VII I sort of disagree. Rather there are multiple astartes wearing basically MK VII helmets, when you compare it to MK V it is clearly 80-90% mk VII in style (page 72 book 1 among many others). All you'd really have to do is cut off the top vent/"mohawk" portion off, even then on page 93 and 74 there is a variant with the top vent, albeit much smaller than the GW kit version. It is allowed in that sense, but never as a complete suit so I cut off the vent and add it here or there in my army like how it is in the pictures. The bolters also work, not only are they in a few background pictures in the black book about the Salamanders one of them has a combi-flamer in the Godwyn style. I personally would allow legs (torsos also but to a MUCH lesser extent) too if used intermittently. I am a sucker for the early Horus Heresy art covers, and the Flight of the Eisenstein has lots of leg armor pretty similar to MK VII. But to be fair in the black books they are not there so it's a grey zone depending on how their done. For Pauldrons I have no issue, they are so similiar to MK IV that who's to say Brother Honorious likes his shoulder trim a bit thicker than others XD. Now if someone ran a siege of Terra army I'd allow MK VII suits in general; we don't really know the numbers of the suit per legion, if they were issued as a complete suit or piecemeal to replenish damaged bits, or even if they were issued before the siege started, allowing in theory mk VII to be plausible in the Sol system/sector and not just the Siege of Terra, so who knows ?

The scale is fair enough, I've already thrown my opinion on the matter and to each their own!

@Hordrak those terminators look good to me! The funny thing is when I look at the FW legion Terminator praetor, I can kinda see a symbol on their robe (the black robes just going down from the pauldron) that looks like a straightened symbol of Tzeentch... It's probably the sun symbol with the side flames cut off, or is it?....

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Thousand-Sons-Legion-Praetor-2017

 Glasdir wrote:
pretty much all vehicles are ok with me so long as they have the appropriate loadout, ie. no lascannon preds or land raider crusaders/redeemers.
as for marines and such anything from the 40k loyalists is good as long as the Armour has no obvious mkvii parts, ie. heads, shoulder pads, backpacks and torsos and there is no overuse of mkvii legs and arms and there are no character models used.

" Mark VII armour was developed during the last stages of the Horus Heres"

Depending on use I don't have problem with that myself. I'm planning on using small number of VII with my blood angels justifying force being on siege of terra(which pretty obviously is in last stages of HH and I figure blood angels, being on Terra, would be likely candinates to get first). So I see that as workable fluffiwise and gives me affordable assault marines. Win-win.

And number of suits produced isn't really issue since they presumably were assigned "by squads" rather than scattered among randomly. And warhammer games are so tiny parts there's no real reason to claim "they wouldn't be in this small battle!". We have unique primarches leading tiny skirmishes Substantial amount of rare armour in same sized battlefield is wash. There's still lot more of even those out there in the bigger world along with tens of thousands older marks.

 JamesY wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:


Ok with 40k rhinos and land raiders but would expect some conversion.

Why? Those models existed at the time, and there are rules for the phobos raider in the books. What conversions would be necessary?

I didn't say necessary, but there is such a thing as pride in presentation. An obvious thing is to swap the storm bolter for a combi bolter on the rhino. I'm a big fan of the mk2B Land raider with external tracks, although that is rather difficult.

My rule of thumb:

If it looks like it's from 40K, then it shouldn't be in 30K.

For me it is no MkVII unless you are rocking BA, IF or WS during the Siege Of Terra.

I use old and new Rhinos as they are both fine by me.

Other then that, have a day.

I have had to use bits from the DW Killteam boxes to pull off some conversions but I always use Heresy era legs. Arms you can get away with.

Mk VII Helmets can easily represent, or be made to represent various different forms of Mk V Helmet. Torsos are generally obscured, but even so, remove the Aquila and you're fine in my book. Legs, arms, Pauldrons and backpacks dont really bother me either as they could easily be a Mk IV or Vb,c,e, ect pattern.

I guess that leaves Boltguns? But even then some of the art shows that pattern in use.

So really, no I don't care. Just put the bare minimum effort into making it look somewhat different.

Mk. VII helmets with some conversions to make them look like Mi V helmets is okay. Shaving off the Aquila on Mk. 7 chest pieces looks weird when I tried it but more talented converters than I might be able to pull it off. I like to personally add some 40k tactical arms here and there as the 30k plastic arms are... limited. I also use Godwyn pattern bolters here and there because I think they are the nicest looking boltguns but that's just me

It's a fuzzy line, and it's all down to intent really. If it looks like it 'fits' then it's fine.

All my heresy marines are a mix of marks, with third party bits, 40k bits, OOP models, etc, but even thought they're not 100% accurate, I think they look 'right' for the setting, and they have clearly had a load of effort put into them to make them look that way.

I'm also not a fan of the 'ultra-accurate' approach - 60 MkIV Ultramatines in MKIV armour with the correct MkIV guns and every model sporting the correct MKIV Ultramarine specific helmet and shoulder pad upgrade set, their sergeants armed only with MKIV power weapons, all riding in identical Deimos rhinos or vehicles with the correct UM-specific doors, all painted in FW UM blue using the 'official' scheme. I appreiciate some people are more 'collectors' than hobbyists, but to me an army like that is a bit boring, and pretty inaccurate in a war zone!

But back on-topic, if it looks like someone has just taken a 40k army and decided to use it in the heresy, it's probably crossing the (fuzzy grey) line.

.

I've only got 4 out of 31 Terminators that can't be used by my Thousand Sons force (TH+SS loadout), I might paint them as Blood Ravens or something.

Out of 103 Marines, about a dozen have just MK VII arms, but they're arms so I don't care as much. About six actually are in MK VII armor, 2 with Missile Launchers and 4 with Lascannons. Missile Launchers and MK IV Marines are easy enough to get, so they'll be replaced if there's any issue; I'll wait on the Lascannons until I can get a good deal as they run on eBay for anywhere between $5-10 apiece.

Vehicles will be exclusively 30k though, but I'm waiting to get them until after I paint the rest of the army (Using them as a little bit of an incentive to paint. That and storage.)

As far as gaming with anyone else, I'd prefer only MKs used during the Heresy, but I'm not going to refuse to play someone just because they don't have 30k specific stuff. I like accuracy, but I'd just prefer to have a good time playing

It's very easy to get anal or start nitpicking about this subject. I think as long as you have 2 or more players who want to have a good game or campaign that should be the only concern.
There's an 18 year old at our club who wanted to play some HH with our group we helped him make a list using his 40k Salamanders as a 30k army e.g his Devastators as heavy support squad, Vulkan Hestan as a Praetor with Paragon blade, Storm Raven as a Storm Eagle or Fire Raptor.
As times gone on he's added some Fire Drakes, Vulkan, Calth and Prospero models. He still uses his LandRaider as a Spartan and Raven as Raptor or Eagle but there expensive models for someone without a full time job and expensive even when you have one.
If we had acted like that fool on the you tube vid we would have lost a 30k player for our campaigns you need to encourage with this hobby not ack like an elitist fool. We've got 2 more 17 year olds into it recently one using his Deathwatch as black shields for our current campaign in fact we're all running black shield lists so all our armies could be considered incorrect by some as we have WE, TS, IH, IW, and others painted in their legion colours.
I think when reading the Black books it's obvious how the spirit of the game should be and that's inclusion not exclusion.

 ArbitorIan wrote:


I'm also not a fan of the 'ultra-accurate' approach - 60 MkIV Ultramatines in MKIV armour with the correct MkIV guns and every model sporting the correct MKIV Ultramarine specific helmet and shoulder pad upgrade set, their sergeants armed only with MKIV power weapons, all riding in identical Deimos rhinos or vehicles with the correct UM-specific doors, all painted in FW UM blue using the 'official' scheme. I appreiciate some people are more 'collectors' than hobbyists, but to me an army like that is a bit boring, and pretty inaccurate in a war zone!

.

If they want to be Ultra-accurate they better use the correct shade of Guilliman gold for their trim and use after market barrels on their Sicarans because the Ryza-M31 barrels the stock kit has use post-heresy muzzle brakes. And god help me if I see -another- person use emerald green for their laurels instead of jade green. The Ultramarines stopped using emerald green right before the Ullanor conflict.

Also, you'd probably hate my army. I like being Ultra-accurate.

Kasper Hawser wrote:
There's an 18 year old at our club who wanted to play some HH with our group we helped him make a list using his 40k Salamanders as a 30k army e.g his Devastators as heavy support squad, Vulkan Hestan as a Praetor with Paragon blade, Storm Raven as a Storm Eagle or Fire Raptor.
As times gone on he's added some Fire Drakes, Vulkan, Calth and Prospero models. He still uses his LandRaider as a Spartan and Raven as Raptor or Eagle but there expensive models for someone without a full time job and expensive even when you have one.
If we had acted like that fool on the you tube vid we would have lost a 30k player for our campaigns you need to encourage with this hobby not ack like an elitist fool. We've got 2 more 17 year olds into it recently one using his Deathwatch as black shields for our current campaign in fact we're all running black shield lists so all our armies could be considered incorrect by some as we have WE, TS, IH, IW, and others painted in their legion colours.
I think when reading the Black books it's obvious how the spirit of the game should be and that's inclusion not exclusion.

except the spartan and storm eagle are much larger than a land raider and storm raven respectively, proxying really isn't ok in any aspect of the hobby not just 30k, the plastic phobos land raiders are fine to use as land raiders in 30k as they are documented to have existed, 30k is all about narrative gaming and if you ignore the narrative then why bother playing? might as well play 40k. While I strongly dislike the outer circle 90% of the points given about the minis are right, if you aren't even going to put in the effort to make a decent looking, era appropriate army (ie. correct livery and loadouts, with no proxying and minimal to no mkvii/mkviii) then might as well not bother as it's not what 30k is about. It's not being elitist (I've built my armies on a reasonable budget and taken time to save cash for the more expensive things rather than half arsing them) its about being "historically" accurate as that is what 30k is at it's core, a historical version of 40k. historical gamers would be generally unimpressed if you turned up to a WW2 game with romans or an 19th century English army, the same applies to 30k.

 Glasdir wrote:

Kasper Hawser wrote:
There's an 18 year old at our club who wanted to play some HH with our group we helped him make a list using his 40k Salamanders as a 30k army e.g his Devastators as heavy support squad, Vulkan Hestan as a Praetor with Paragon blade, Storm Raven as a Storm Eagle or Fire Raptor.
As times gone on he's added some Fire Drakes, Vulkan, Calth and Prospero models. He still uses his LandRaider as a Spartan and Raven as Raptor or Eagle but there expensive models for someone without a full time job and expensive even when you have one.
If we had acted like that fool on the you tube vid we would have lost a 30k player for our campaigns you need to encourage with this hobby not ack like an elitist fool. We've got 2 more 17 year olds into it recently one using his Deathwatch as black shields for our current campaign in fact we're all running black shield lists so all our armies could be considered incorrect by some as we have WE, TS, IH, IW, and others painted in their legion colours.
I think when reading the Black books it's obvious how the spirit of the game should be and that's inclusion not exclusion.

except the spartan and storm eagle are much larger than a land raider and storm raven respectively, proxying really isn't ok in any aspect of the hobby not just 30k, the plastic phobos land raiders are fine to use as land raiders in 30k as they are documented to have existed, 30k is all about narrative gaming and if you ignore the narrative then why bother playing? might as well play 40k. While I strongly dislike the outer circle 90% of the points given about the minis are right, if you aren't even going to put in the effort to make a decent looking, era appropriate army (ie. correct livery and loadouts, with no proxying and minimal to no mkvii/mkviii) then might as well not bother as it's not what 30k is about. It's not being elitist (I've built my armies on a reasonable budget and taken time to save cash for the more expensive things rather than half arsing them) its about being "historically" accurate as that is what 30k is at it's core, a historical version of 40k. historical gamers would be generally unimpressed if you turned up to a WW2 game with romans or an 19th century English army, the same applies to 30k.

I think given this posters point, they made the right call. Getting people into 30k heps encourage the niche of our hobby helps it grow. Lets these people get their beaks wet and gives them a chance to buy and get a HH army going.

Plus, we have all been the 17yo gamer. Being told "NO" because you can not afford FW is gakky.

I have zero problems with letting newbies try out 30k with their 40k models with the caveat that they should eventually buy some 30k models.

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:
I think given this posters point, they made the right call. Getting people into 30k heps encourage the niche of our hobby helps it grow. Lets these people get their beaks wet and gives them a chance to buy and get a HH army going.

Plus, we have all been the 17yo gamer. Being told "NO" because you can not afford FW is gakky.

It has nothing to do with being able to afford FW kits, you can build a very decent sized force from the plastic kits that GW produce, I know because I have done this, the majority of my 30k collection is plastic, the only FW things I own are models that only FW produce and the majority of those I have gradually added over time, so I don't have to drop a silly amount of money in one go because that is unrealistic. As an A-level student myself I can only say that if you can afford 40k as a hobby then there is no reason you can't afford 30k these days, BaC and BoP really did slash the entry prices (buying the equivalent from FW costs 4 times the price) and are both perfect sets to get started with as they provide so much in terms of minis and bitz for kit bashing, plus many of GW's kits are perfectly suitable for use in 30k armies, you can easily squeeze 1500 points out of BaC if you add in a couple of rhinos or another box of marines. From there its all about saving any hobby money for the next addition to your army and adding gradually rather than buying that weeks new releases or stuff for other armies.

 Glasdir wrote:

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:
I think given this posters point, they made the right call. Getting people into 30k heps encourage the niche of our hobby helps it grow. Lets these people get their beaks wet and gives them a chance to buy and get a HH army going.

Plus, we have all been the 17yo gamer. Being told "NO" because you can not afford FW is gakky.

It has nothing to do with being able to afford FW kits, you can build a very decent sized force from the plastic kits that GW produce, I know because I have done this, the majority of my 30k collection is plastic, the only FW things I own are models that only FW produce and the majority of those I have gradually added over time, so I don't have to drop a silly amount of money in one go because that is unrealistic. As an A-level student myself I can only say that if you can afford 40k as a hobby then there is no reason you can't afford 30k these days, BaC and BoP really did slash the entry prices (buying the equivalent from FW costs 4 times the price) and are both perfect sets to get started with as they provide so much in terms of minis and bitz for kit bashing, plus many of GW's kits are perfectly suitable for use in 30k armies, you can easily squeeze 1500 points out of BaC if you add in a couple of rhinos or another box of marines. From there its all about saving any hobby money for the next addition to your army and adding gradually rather than buying that weeks new releases or stuff for other armies.

To add to your point, IMHO the cheapest way to make a 40k Space Marine army is to get BaC and/or BoP and get some bits and Rhinos.

To detract from your point however, in order to build a basic 30k Space Marine Legion you need the Red Book, which is around the same price as the 40k rulebook. So, by my guestimate (please correct me here), 40k 7th Ed rulebook + BaC + bits and Rhinos + Red Book is roughly $330 USD, slightly cheaper through eBay. Not bad compared to many 40k armies, but a little daunting for someone who is on a limited budget and already has a 40k army.

IMHO, I think the best option here is: if they don't have a 40k Marine army and they're interested in 30k Marines, steer them towards getting BaC and BoP, the Red Book, some bits (looked and FW does have some better prices than eBay, especially with the Lascannons), and a couple of Rhinos. If they also want to use their 30k for 40k, let them get the Space Marine Codex too. If they have a 40k Marine army, let them try some games with it, and if/when it starts to bug you that they don't have the exact 30k stuff, encourage them to get the cooler looking 30k stuff .

Using 40k armies as a way to try out 30k has never been a problem and I doubt anybody would be against playing with a 40k marine player, who wants to try out 30k. But It's not about newbies, it's about accomplished players and players, who want to use 40k models on purpuse. 40k Land Raiders and Rhinos aren't a problem since they were used during the Heresy, albeit in rather small numbers.

Arcanis161 wrote:

To add to your point, IMHO the cheapest way to make a 40k Space Marine army is to get BaC and/or BoP and get some bits and Rhinos.

To detract from your point however, in order to build a basic 30k Space Marine Legion you need the Red Book, which is around the same price as the 40k rulebook. So, by my guestimate (please correct me here), 40k 7th Ed rulebook + BaC + bits and Rhinos + Red Book is roughly $330 USD, slightly cheaper through eBay. Not bad compared to many 40k armies, but a little daunting for someone who is on a limited budget and already has a 40k army.

IMHO, I think the best option here is: if they don't have a 40k Marine army and they're interested in 30k Marines, steer them towards getting BaC and BoP, the Red Book, some bits (looked and FW does have some better prices than eBay, especially with the Lascannons), and a couple of Rhinos. If they also want to use their 30k for 40k, let them get the Space Marine Codex too. If they have a 40k Marine army, let them try some games with it, and if/when it starts to bug you that they don't have the exact 30k stuff, encourage them to get the cooler looking 30k stuff .

The digital editions of the red books are a good way to go, especially for the legion rules book as you will only need a small fraction of the book, the digital editions are £10 cheaper here in the UK and you save cash on postage as well so they are a win-win if you have access to them. however if you know existing players then chances are they'll share them for gaming and give you advice with what to buy, which will save you having to buy the books straight away. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who steers people towards the box sets for 40k armies as well, they are probably the best value sets GW has produced in a while.

At the end of the day, why does my opinion necessarily matter.
For me, I don't want to use any strictly 40K stuff in 30K, maybe there are some grey areas (Rhinos/Land Raiders/Legion Upgrade bits)
For someone else, its down to them. I don't expect people to tell me I'm doing MY hobby 'wrong', so what gives me the right to 'tell' them?
As to whether I'd play them? Once, sure. Repeatedly? I don't know. It would depend on the person. If they are doing it to be WAAC on the cheap, then no. If they were good fun and the game was a laugh, then sure.
I know its not 40k in 30k, but ive got a friend who's doing a missing Legion. I don't agree with missing legions as they are gone by the heresy. However he is loving it. He's crafted a background, is playing around with rules (and not too 'i've got all the best stuff because hes great' ones). Will I play him with his home grown rules? Yes, because hes a good laugh, but I will point out if hi rules are a bit too much. And if he didn't change them, then eventually I think I might stop playing them.
It's about context. You do what you want in your hobby. I don't have to agree. And maybe I wont play against it if it ruins my immersion in my hobby.
Maybe I'll miss out on some great games.
And maybe they will too!

 Glasdir wrote:
It's not being elitist (I've built my armies on a reasonable budget and taken time to save cash for the more expensive things rather than half arsing them) its about being "historically" accurate as that is what 30k is at it's core, a historical version of 40k. historical gamers would be generally unimpressed if you turned up to a WW2 game with romans or an 19th century English army, the same applies to 30k.

It's more like bringing your Early War Germans or Brits to a Late War tournament...which happens regularly and I've yet to see someone bat an eye about it. 19th century English army in WW2 would be more akin to prox 30k legions with orks or tau....

 Glasdir wrote:
except the spartan and storm eagle are much larger than a land raider and storm raven respectively, proxying really isn't ok in any aspect of the hobby not just 30k, the plastic phobos land raiders are fine to use as land raiders in 30k as they are documented to have existed, 30k is all about narrative gaming and if you ignore the narrative then why bother playing? might as well play 40k. While I strongly dislike the outer circle 90% of the points given about the minis are right, if you aren't even going to put in the effort to make a decent looking, era appropriate army (ie. correct livery and loadouts, with no proxying and minimal to no mkvii/mkviii) then might as well not bother as it's not what 30k is about. It's not being elitist (I've built my armies on a reasonable budget and taken time to save cash for the more expensive things rather than half arsing them) its about being "historically" accurate as that is what 30k is at it's core, a historical version of 40k. historical gamers would be generally unimpressed if you turned up to a WW2 game with romans or an 19th century English army, the same applies to 30k.

Sorry but you can say this is not elitistic but that doesn't make elitistic stance any less elitistic.

And you are incorrect about what 30k is at it's core. 30k is at it's core about HAVING FUN. Period.

And just because historic gamers are elitistic doesn't mean it's good attitude to take in 30k.

I think it comes down to the theme of the army. My first HH army was Space Wolves and was before even FW kits existed and was a hodge podge of 40k Marine, Wolf and 3rd party bits. I moved on to Word Bearers with Calth and they were a mix of HH plastics, Chaos bits and FW units. I used Chaos bits spairingly as they were set in the early Heresy but it looked correct.

I then revisited my Space Wolves and redid the army using HH plastics kitbashed with GW Wolf kits. This fits my idea of the Wolves as a Legion outside normal structures made up of very individualistic warriors. I still avoid Mk VII bits though as they scream post Heresy.

My current project is mid to late Heresy World Eaters. Tac squads will be Mk IV plastics painted white and blue. Inductii will be mostly plastic Berzerker bits painted white and red.

It all comes down to theme for me and if it's appropriate to 30k and cool looking than who am I to complain.