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There are hints all over the place, but I want the OPINION of you all as to how powerful Horus became at the peak of the Heresy. I know that he entered the webway gate that the emperor did and emerged far more powerful than he was before. Before we proceed, be sure to stay on topic, side topics are cool as long as they are relevant. Things to keep in mind are:

- Sanguinius was already worn down by the time he met Horus on the Vengeful Spirit

- The Emperor apparently "held back" until the unknown hero jumped to save him after he had his arm ripped off and throat shredded. (IMO I think he underestimated Horus in terms of power)

This is your opinion, but please source when stating facts as it's proper debate courtesy

I've heard it both ways in the fluff, that Horus was a match for the Emperor and that the Emperor was holding back.

I don't think there's anything reliable in terms of how their power levels compared.

That said, Horus became a psyker by the time he reached Terra. The battle between him and the Emperor was not entirely physical and they were matching each other blow for blow at this level.

The fluff sometimes also references the idea he was possessed in some way. The moment he died, it was because he was free of some power the Warp had over him enough to let his guard down. Was never sure if this was because he was actively possessed, or because he came to some realization of what he had done.

In either case, he was tough when he got there. I don't think the fluff goes into detail about what happened to him power-wise on the way to Terra.

 techsoldaten wrote:

The fluff sometimes also references the idea he was possessed in some way. The moment he died, it was because he was free of some power the Warp had over him enough to let his guard down. Was never sure if this was because he was actively possessed, or because he came to some realization of what he had done.

That part comes from the part where the Ruinous Powers disengaged from Horus as they saw what the Emperor was about to destroy him (Bill King version I think).


Regardless, I'm pretty sure the Horus Heresy novels are going to change various parts of the Siege of Terra. I doubt that they're still going to have the Emperor hesitating out of love for Horus when the Horus Heresy series has consistently portrayed the Emperor as not caring about the Primarchs as much more than useful tools.

 techsoldaten wrote:
I've heard it both ways in the fluff, that Horus was a match for the Emperor and that the Emperor was holding back.

I don't think there's anything reliable in terms of how their power levels compared.

That said, Horus became a psyker by the time he reached Terra. The battle between him and the Emperor was not entirely physical and they were matching each other blow for blow at this level.

The fluff sometimes also references the idea he was possessed in some way. The moment he died, it was because he was free of some power the Warp had over him enough to let his guard down. Was never sure if this was because he was actively possessed, or because he came to some realization of what he had done.

In either case, he was tough when he got there. I don't think the fluff goes into detail about what happened to him power-wise on the way to Terra.

Yeah I can agree as I've yet to find anything that describes just how strong he was. I've just started the Horus Heresy novels and I have researched much about the fall of Horus.

Considering this: It mentions that a veteran Custodes could go toe to toe with a Primarch while being weaker than the Emperor sheds light on how strong Horus grew to be able to match the Emperor blow for blow.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

The fluff sometimes also references the idea he was possessed in some way. The moment he died, it was because he was free of some power the Warp had over him enough to let his guard down. Was never sure if this was because he was actively possessed, or because he came to some realization of what he had done.

That part comes from the part where the Ruinous Powers disengaged from Horus as they saw what the Emperor was about to destroy him (Bill King version I think).


Regardless, I'm pretty sure the Horus Heresy novels are going to change various parts of the Siege of Terra. I doubt that they're still going to have the Emperor hesitating out of love for Horus when the Horus Heresy series has consistently portrayed the Emperor as not caring about the Primarchs as much more than useful tools.

Yeah I also think the HH novels are gonna change the fight too, i am really hoping its not something really hacky like making the emp the bad guy or something, or having sanguinius join him.

 Formosa wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

The fluff sometimes also references the idea he was possessed in some way. The moment he died, it was because he was free of some power the Warp had over him enough to let his guard down. Was never sure if this was because he was actively possessed, or because he came to some realization of what he had done.

That part comes from the part where the Ruinous Powers disengaged from Horus as they saw what the Emperor was about to destroy him (Bill King version I think).


Regardless, I'm pretty sure the Horus Heresy novels are going to change various parts of the Siege of Terra. I doubt that they're still going to have the Emperor hesitating out of love for Horus when the Horus Heresy series has consistently portrayed the Emperor as not caring about the Primarchs as much more than useful tools.

Yeah I also think the HH novels are gonna change the fight too, i am really hoping its not something really hacky like making the emp the bad guy or something, or having sanguinius join him.

From what I've learned, the Emperor is an "Ends justify the means" kind of guy. Considering he's wiped out entire xenos species for the sake of humanity, he could be seen as a bad guy, but that's based on interpretation.

It would certainly be interesting if at least one of the books detail the siege from the Emperor's point of view. It would lend a lot detail concerning his outlook on it and potentially give a few thoughts on Magnus' attempt to warn him. We'd learn a lot more about Horus' power as well.

blindfultruth wrote:
From what I've learned, the Emperor is an "Ends justify the means" kind of guy. Considering he's wiped out entire xenos species for the sake of humanity, he could be seen as a bad guy, but that's based on interpretation.

It would certainly be interesting if at least one of the books detail the siege from the Emperor's point of view. It would lend a lot detail concerning his outlook on it and potentially give a few thoughts on Magnus' attempt to warn him. We'd learn a lot more about Horus' power as well.

Question: in the fluff, have we actually ever heard the Emperor declare the need to wipe out all xenos? We have certainly heard destroying all Xenos is the mission of the Imperium, but has this actually ever been a goal of the Imperium while the Emperor lead it?

Had to think hard about it. He's been depicted fighting Xenos in a book once while fighting alongside Horus. The only thing I remember him saying needed to be exterminated is religion. Coming up blank other than that.

Feels like this is an important question. The Imperium changed a great deal after the Horus Heresy. Until then, wars were definitely fought for territory as part of the Great Crusade, but not necessarily for the purpose of wiping out all Xenos. It's possible this declaration could be propaganda used to unite people in the wake of the Emperor's death. It's also possible the Emperor is simply a monster determined to carry out galactic genocide.

For whatever reason, based on the narrative in the Horus Heresy books, it feels like this is something Horus would have said and not something the Emperor would have said. I would really like to know if there's a fluff source for this being a goal of the pre-Heresy Imperium.

Powerful enough to mortally wound a (pretty much) god, holding back or not, thats still pretty damn powerful.

There is an inquisitorial Ordo that was established in order to determine and rate the relative power levels of various players in the Horus Heresy, as well various other enemies of the imperium.

After studying captured picto-cordings taken from survivors of the battlebarge, Inquisitor Vegetas comments that Daemon Horus's powerlevel surely exceeded nine thousand.

 techsoldaten wrote:

blindfultruth wrote:
From what I've learned, the Emperor is an "Ends justify the means" kind of guy. Considering he's wiped out entire xenos species for the sake of humanity, he could be seen as a bad guy, but that's based on interpretation.

It would certainly be interesting if at least one of the books detail the siege from the Emperor's point of view. It would lend a lot detail concerning his outlook on it and potentially give a few thoughts on Magnus' attempt to warn him. We'd learn a lot more about Horus' power as well.

Question: in the fluff, have we actually ever heard the Emperor declare the need to wipe out all xenos? We have certainly heard destroying all Xenos is the mission of the Imperium, but has this actually ever been a goal of the Imperium while the Emperor lead it?

Had to think hard about it. He's been depicted fighting Xenos in a book once while fighting alongside Horus. The only thing I remember him saying needed to be exterminated is religion. Coming up blank other than that.

Feels like this is an important question. The Imperium changed a great deal after the Horus Heresy. Until then, wars were definitely fought for territory as part of the Great Crusade, but not necessarily for the purpose of wiping out all Xenos. It's possible this declaration could be propaganda used to unite people in the wake of the Emperor's death. It's also possible the Emperor is simply a monster determined to carry out galactic genocide.

For whatever reason, based on the narrative in the Horus Heresy books, it feels like this is something Horus would have said and not something the Emperor would have said. I would really like to know if there's a fluff source for this being a goal of the pre-Heresy Imperium.

It seems pretty clear seeing as they attack humans allied with Xenos who won't convert and races that would actually be better allied with to fight Chaos. Emperor wanted the Galaxy just for humanity. He's that dumb.

pm713 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

blindfultruth wrote:
From what I've learned, the Emperor is an "Ends justify the means" kind of guy. Considering he's wiped out entire xenos species for the sake of humanity, he could be seen as a bad guy, but that's based on interpretation.

It would certainly be interesting if at least one of the books detail the siege from the Emperor's point of view. It would lend a lot detail concerning his outlook on it and potentially give a few thoughts on Magnus' attempt to warn him. We'd learn a lot more about Horus' power as well.

Question: in the fluff, have we actually ever heard the Emperor declare the need to wipe out all xenos? We have certainly heard destroying all Xenos is the mission of the Imperium, but has this actually ever been a goal of the Imperium while the Emperor lead it?

Had to think hard about it. He's been depicted fighting Xenos in a book once while fighting alongside Horus. The only thing I remember him saying needed to be exterminated is religion. Coming up blank other than that.

Feels like this is an important question. The Imperium changed a great deal after the Horus Heresy. Until then, wars were definitely fought for territory as part of the Great Crusade, but not necessarily for the purpose of wiping out all Xenos. It's possible this declaration could be propaganda used to unite people in the wake of the Emperor's death. It's also possible the Emperor is simply a monster determined to carry out galactic genocide.

For whatever reason, based on the narrative in the Horus Heresy books, it feels like this is something Horus would have said and not something the Emperor would have said. I would really like to know if there's a fluff source for this being a goal of the pre-Heresy Imperium.

It seems pretty clear seeing as they attack humans allied with Xenos who won't convert and races that would actually be better allied with to fight Chaos. Emperor wanted the Galaxy just for humanity. He's that dumb.

Well, there's a difference between wanting a certain "space" for Humanity to exist, and wanting to wipe out all Xenos from existence. One is empire building, the other is genocide.

Wondering if there's anything specific about this in the fluff.

 techsoldaten wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

blindfultruth wrote:
From what I've learned, the Emperor is an "Ends justify the means" kind of guy. Considering he's wiped out entire xenos species for the sake of humanity, he could be seen as a bad guy, but that's based on interpretation.

It would certainly be interesting if at least one of the books detail the siege from the Emperor's point of view. It would lend a lot detail concerning his outlook on it and potentially give a few thoughts on Magnus' attempt to warn him. We'd learn a lot more about Horus' power as well.

Question: in the fluff, have we actually ever heard the Emperor declare the need to wipe out all xenos? We have certainly heard destroying all Xenos is the mission of the Imperium, but has this actually ever been a goal of the Imperium while the Emperor lead it?

Had to think hard about it. He's been depicted fighting Xenos in a book once while fighting alongside Horus. The only thing I remember him saying needed to be exterminated is religion. Coming up blank other than that.

Feels like this is an important question. The Imperium changed a great deal after the Horus Heresy. Until then, wars were definitely fought for territory as part of the Great Crusade, but not necessarily for the purpose of wiping out all Xenos. It's possible this declaration could be propaganda used to unite people in the wake of the Emperor's death. It's also possible the Emperor is simply a monster determined to carry out galactic genocide.

For whatever reason, based on the narrative in the Horus Heresy books, it feels like this is something Horus would have said and not something the Emperor would have said. I would really like to know if there's a fluff source for this being a goal of the pre-Heresy Imperium.

It seems pretty clear seeing as they attack humans allied with Xenos who won't convert and races that would actually be better allied with to fight Chaos. Emperor wanted the Galaxy just for humanity. He's that dumb.

Well, there's a difference between wanting a certain "space" for Humanity to exist, and wanting to wipe out all Xenos from existence. One is empire building, the other is genocide.

Wondering if there's anything specific about this in the fluff.

Would it be better to suggest that for some, the GC enabled them to wipe xenos species out? The Emperor's Children wiped the Laer/Laeren species out for from what I understand, trying to be more perfect than them. That wasn't what the GC was meant to be fought for.

Very powerful but not powerful enough.

You see, Horus only managed to mortally wound the Emperor because the Emperor was too merciful to Horus. I think that's kind of the point of both this duel and the big picture in Warhammer 40,000.

Why else the imperium adopted a total "no mercy"-policy after Horus Heresy?

RedCommander wrote:
Very powerful but not powerful enough.

You see, Horus only managed to mortally wound the Emperor because the Emperor was too merciful to Horus. I think that's kind of the point of both this duel and the big picture in Warhammer 40,000.

Why else the imperium adopted a total "no mercy"-policy after Horus Heresy?

Makes sense, though I would think the Emperor wouldn't allow himself to be mortally wounded due to mercy. When it came to going all out offensively, yes, but mercy shouldn't have played a part in defending himself based on how strong he was.

 Formosa wrote:


Yeah I also think the HH novels are gonna change the fight too, i am really hoping its not something really hacky like making the emp the bad guy or something, or having sanguinius join him.

I doubt the Emperor will be the bad guy per say (Horus sets that bar too high) but he's definitely being portrayed as pretty dumb. If he doesn't really care about the Primarchs why would he have any reason to keep Angron leading the World Eaters? He was only ever a liability. If there was love/guilt involved it makes more sense.

blindfultruth wrote:Makes sense, though I would think the Emperor wouldn't allow himself to be mortally wounded due to mercy. When it came to going all out offensively, yes, but mercy shouldn't have played a part in defending himself based on how strong he was.

It wasn't a conscious "'I don't want to hurt him' but it was portrayed as stopping him from using his full power in attacking Horus. It appears that offence was easier to do than defence.

 techsoldaten wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

blindfultruth wrote:
From what I've learned, the Emperor is an "Ends justify the means" kind of guy. Considering he's wiped out entire xenos species for the sake of humanity, he could be seen as a bad guy, but that's based on interpretation.

It would certainly be interesting if at least one of the books detail the siege from the Emperor's point of view. It would lend a lot detail concerning his outlook on it and potentially give a few thoughts on Magnus' attempt to warn him. We'd learn a lot more about Horus' power as well.

Question: in the fluff, have we actually ever heard the Emperor declare the need to wipe out all xenos? We have certainly heard destroying all Xenos is the mission of the Imperium, but has this actually ever been a goal of the Imperium while the Emperor lead it?

Had to think hard about it. He's been depicted fighting Xenos in a book once while fighting alongside Horus. The only thing I remember him saying needed to be exterminated is religion. Coming up blank other than that.

Feels like this is an important question. The Imperium changed a great deal after the Horus Heresy. Until then, wars were definitely fought for territory as part of the Great Crusade, but not necessarily for the purpose of wiping out all Xenos. It's possible this declaration could be propaganda used to unite people in the wake of the Emperor's death. It's also possible the Emperor is simply a monster determined to carry out galactic genocide.

For whatever reason, based on the narrative in the Horus Heresy books, it feels like this is something Horus would have said and not something the Emperor would have said. I would really like to know if there's a fluff source for this being a goal of the pre-Heresy Imperium.

It seems pretty clear seeing as they attack humans allied with Xenos who won't convert and races that would actually be better allied with to fight Chaos. Emperor wanted the Galaxy just for humanity. He's that dumb.

Well, there's a difference between wanting a certain "space" for Humanity to exist, and wanting to wipe out all Xenos from existence. One is empire building, the other is genocide.

Wondering if there's anything specific about this in the fluff.

Well when the space is the location of all known life they're pretty similar. Plus there was plenty of space for humanity. Galaxy is big.

 techsoldaten wrote:

blindfultruth wrote:
From what I've learned, the Emperor is an "Ends justify the means" kind of guy. Considering he's wiped out entire xenos species for the sake of humanity, he could be seen as a bad guy, but that's based on interpretation.

It would certainly be interesting if at least one of the books detail the siege from the Emperor's point of view. It would lend a lot detail concerning his outlook on it and potentially give a few thoughts on Magnus' attempt to warn him. We'd learn a lot more about Horus' power as well.

Question: in the fluff, have we actually ever heard the Emperor declare the need to wipe out all xenos? We have certainly heard destroying all Xenos is the mission of the Imperium, but has this actually ever been a goal of the Imperium while the Emperor lead it?

Had to think hard about it. He's been depicted fighting Xenos in a book once while fighting alongside Horus. The only thing I remember him saying needed to be exterminated is religion. Coming up blank other than that.

Feels like this is an important question. The Imperium changed a great deal after the Horus Heresy. Until then, wars were definitely fought for territory as part of the Great Crusade, but not necessarily for the purpose of wiping out all Xenos. It's possible this declaration could be propaganda used to unite people in the wake of the Emperor's death. It's also possible the Emperor is simply a monster determined to carry out galactic genocide.

For whatever reason, based on the narrative in the Horus Heresy books, it feels like this is something Horus would have said and not something the Emperor would have said. I would really like to know if there's a fluff source for this being a goal of the pre-Heresy Imperium.

Well consider this. By the time of the Great Crusade, the Galaxy had already suffered the horror that was the Age of Strife and Old Night. This was a GALAXY WIDE DEAMON APOCOLYPSE that more then likely effected all races to various levels. The only Xenos that were left in the galaxy were the ones that would be a threat to humanity.

Better to take them all out before a few banded together to pose a serious threat.

Also, for the big E to delete someone from existence this isn't just something that he can decide to do on a whim.

The Wolves of Fire and Ash show that such a feat is a special attack that will need to get through the defences of his opponent.

So even once E decided H was a lost cause he still had to land this attack, giving Horus a chance to continue his offensive.

blindfultruth wrote:
Would it be better to suggest that for some, the GC enabled them to wipe xenos species out? The Emperor's Children wiped the Laer/Laeren species out for from what I understand, trying to be more perfect than them. That wasn't what the GC was meant to be fought for.

Considering the GC killed all aliens it encountered, all humans that were mutated beyond an acceptable level and all humans that refused to join the imperium and pay their tithe I'd say it was exactly what the GC was for.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

blindfultruth wrote:
Would it be better to suggest that for some, the GC enabled them to wipe xenos species out? The Emperor's Children wiped the Laer/Laeren species out for from what I understand, trying to be more perfect than them. That wasn't what the GC was meant to be fought for.

Considering the GC killed all aliens it encountered, all humans that were mutated beyond an acceptable level and all humans that refused to join the imperium and pay their tithe I'd say it was exactly what the GC was for.

I stand corrected. Your statement is further reinforced by the fact that no one wanted Horus to attempt diplomacy with the Interex, a human/alien based society. I just read that portion in the novel "Horus Rising".

My scouter says his power level is over 9,000!

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

blindfultruth wrote:
From what I've learned, the Emperor is an "Ends justify the means" kind of guy. Considering he's wiped out entire xenos species for the sake of humanity, he could be seen as a bad guy, but that's based on interpretation.

It would certainly be interesting if at least one of the books detail the siege from the Emperor's point of view. It would lend a lot detail concerning his outlook on it and potentially give a few thoughts on Magnus' attempt to warn him. We'd learn a lot more about Horus' power as well.

Question: in the fluff, have we actually ever heard the Emperor declare the need to wipe out all xenos? We have certainly heard destroying all Xenos is the mission of the Imperium, but has this actually ever been a goal of the Imperium while the Emperor lead it?

Had to think hard about it. He's been depicted fighting Xenos in a book once while fighting alongside Horus. The only thing I remember him saying needed to be exterminated is religion. Coming up blank other than that.

Feels like this is an important question. The Imperium changed a great deal after the Horus Heresy. Until then, wars were definitely fought for territory as part of the Great Crusade, but not necessarily for the purpose of wiping out all Xenos. It's possible this declaration could be propaganda used to unite people in the wake of the Emperor's death. It's also possible the Emperor is simply a monster determined to carry out galactic genocide.

For whatever reason, based on the narrative in the Horus Heresy books, it feels like this is something Horus would have said and not something the Emperor would have said. I would really like to know if there's a fluff source for this being a goal of the pre-Heresy Imperium.

Well consider this. By the time of the Great Crusade, the Galaxy had already suffered the horror that was the Age of Strife and Old Night. This was a GALAXY WIDE DEAMON APOCOLYPSE that more then likely effected all races to various levels. The only Xenos that were left in the galaxy were the ones that would be a threat to humanity.

Better to take them all out before a few banded together to pose a serious threat.

That's just wrong. There were Xenos who allied with humans and Xenos who survived but didn't want war. Many things left were either incapable or unwilling to have war until Big E attacked them first.

blindfultruth wrote:

It would certainly be interesting if at least one of the books detail the siege from the Emperor's point of view. It would lend a lot detail concerning his outlook on it and potentially give a few thoughts on Magnus' attempt to warn him. We'd learn a lot more about Horus' power as well.

I am not really expecting that. They had an opportunity to do a book giving the Emperor's PoV in "Master of Mankind" but they deliberately decided not to and instead used the PoVs of the people around him.

GW have realised that they cannot convincingly write from a god's perspective.

pm713 wrote:

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

blindfultruth wrote:
From what I've learned, the Emperor is an "Ends justify the means" kind of guy. Considering he's wiped out entire xenos species for the sake of humanity, he could be seen as a bad guy, but that's based on interpretation.

It would certainly be interesting if at least one of the books detail the siege from the Emperor's point of view. It would lend a lot detail concerning his outlook on it and potentially give a few thoughts on Magnus' attempt to warn him. We'd learn a lot more about Horus' power as well.

Question: in the fluff, have we actually ever heard the Emperor declare the need to wipe out all xenos? We have certainly heard destroying all Xenos is the mission of the Imperium, but has this actually ever been a goal of the Imperium while the Emperor lead it?

Had to think hard about it. He's been depicted fighting Xenos in a book once while fighting alongside Horus. The only thing I remember him saying needed to be exterminated is religion. Coming up blank other than that.

Feels like this is an important question. The Imperium changed a great deal after the Horus Heresy. Until then, wars were definitely fought for territory as part of the Great Crusade, but not necessarily for the purpose of wiping out all Xenos. It's possible this declaration could be propaganda used to unite people in the wake of the Emperor's death. It's also possible the Emperor is simply a monster determined to carry out galactic genocide.

For whatever reason, based on the narrative in the Horus Heresy books, it feels like this is something Horus would have said and not something the Emperor would have said. I would really like to know if there's a fluff source for this being a goal of the pre-Heresy Imperium.

Well consider this. By the time of the Great Crusade, the Galaxy had already suffered the horror that was the Age of Strife and Old Night. This was a GALAXY WIDE DEAMON APOCOLYPSE that more then likely effected all races to various levels. The only Xenos that were left in the galaxy were the ones that would be a threat to humanity.

Better to take them all out before a few banded together to pose a serious threat.

That's just wrong. There were Xenos who allied with humans and Xenos who survived but didn't want war. Many things left were either incapable or unwilling to have war until Big E attacked them first.

Very true!
I always forget about the Xenos allies from the older fluff, was a bit before my time.

blindfultruth wrote:

RedCommander wrote:
Very powerful but not powerful enough.

You see, Horus only managed to mortally wound the Emperor because the Emperor was too merciful to Horus. I think that's kind of the point of both this duel and the big picture in Warhammer 40,000.

Why else the imperium adopted a total "no mercy"-policy after Horus Heresy?

Makes sense, though I would think the Emperor wouldn't allow himself to be mortally wounded due to mercy. When it came to going all out offensively, yes, but mercy shouldn't have played a part in defending himself based on how strong he was.

If the Emperor showed no mercy*, he would have blasted Horus with his full psychic might immediately when he saw him and Horus would have no chance to strike. The Emperor could have done it too. When he actually did blast Horus, he was at his weakest, he was dying. If he was able to do it at that condition, there's no reason to believe he couldn't do it when he was uninjured.

So, he engaged Horus in a close combat duel, which is something that primarchs can survive, even if they are (supposedly) gravely wounded. (For example, Leman Russ survived when Lion El'Jonson impaled his torso with his power sword.) And even then, the Emperor didn't give his everything to the duel. The problem (in this case) was that he felt too much mercy. I think this was kind of uncharacteristic of the Emperor, considering how he generally operates.

*Like his followers do in the present day.

blindfultruth wrote:

Interesting. So it would have been more "instinctive" then?

I guess? He is described as having forced all mercy and compassion from his mind to kill Horus.

nareik wrote:
The Wolves of Fire and Ash show that such a feat is a special attack that will need to get through the defences of his opponent.

So even once E decided H was a lost cause he still had to land this attack, giving Horus a chance to continue his offensive.

As currently described the Emperor did not have to physically strike Horus to destroy him.

For those interested you can find Bill King's short story on the duel here.

I really do wonder how BL is going to change the final throw down.

They have already said that things will shake out differently then we assume they will, I just really hope they do not do something insane like Horus is on the Throne, Sangunius turned Traitor and he had to kill them both, etc.

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:
I really do wonder how BL is going to change the final throw down.

They have already said that things will shake out differently then we assume they will, I just really hope they do not do something insane like Horus is on the Throne, Sangunius turned Traitor and he had to kill them both, etc.

I think it's possible that instead of the Emperor going to the Vengeful Spirit the final showdown will be with Horus doing a desperate last charge. His signature move is targeting the enemy leadership with overwhelming force after all. Plus apparently in one of the books someone is invited to see where Sanguinius fell and it's within the Palace if I recall correctly.

RedCommander wrote:
Very powerful but not powerful enough.

You see, Horus only managed to mortally wound the Emperor because the Emperor was too merciful to Horus. I think that's kind of the point of both this duel and the big picture in Warhammer 40,000.

Why else the imperium adopted a total "no mercy"-policy after Horus Heresy?

That's one way of looking at it.

The other is that Horus was made precisely powerful enough to mortally wound the Emperor before he himself was annihilated, plunging the galaxy into 10,000 years and counting of non-stop war and suffering which does little more than feed the Gods.

The Heresy wasn't about the Emperor vs Horus. It was about Humanity vs the Chaos Gods...and we lost.

The Emperor rolled his dice against the most powerful beings in the universe...and lost.