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Made in us
Been Around the Block




Eastern Kingdoms

I just needed to rant this off my mind.

At heart for any game like this and any game really we play, we are all competitive to a degree. We play to win but also want to have a fun time.
I joined up for a Tournament at my local shop something running a few weeks. I met a few people who really seemed cool and laid back and probably are a blast to play against even if you lose. But i noticed at least two people who say they are 40k vets ran ridiculous super competitive lists and were smashing new players including myself to pieces.

Now hey i gut thick skin but this was really bothering me, because where is the competition in that? There is literally no match in skill level no satisfaction or fun in facing someone equal to you (my opinion anyway). You have these hardcore dudes facing off against new people, Plus not many players signed up for sigmar so i feel like that imbalances the skill and learning curve for us new guys.

My Opponent was kind of a condescending arrogant D-Bag made a lot of snarky comments during my turns. Things like basically wanting me to match his speed without directly saying it, among other things like how I did certain things. Mind you im playing a 150 model horde army with no trays so im doing my best to get things moving. To his cred he did offer advice to help me understand that game and my army better since i was learning the game at 1k points level before jumping into this thing.

But he was a snarky D*** most of the time I feel stupid having signed up now knowing i have to face this d*** weed again and another person like him. I'm a veteran magic player and having that experience and knowledge of working with and teaching new players all the years ive played magic i would never or have ever played a turn 2 win deck or something crazy against a new player. I feel that to be unsportsmanlike and would kill the will to learn a new game for that person.
I would either play something at your tier or not so over powered/crazy competitive off the side in a friendly game to teach you how to play or be around the shop to talk and offer support not be there looking out for new players to stomp to inflate my ego.

My point is i would stay in my lane playing with people at my own skill level.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/10/07 11:14:09


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

Yeah. warhammer is best enjoyed when it's not super competitive. The game just isn't really designed for that. Strong lists sure but not extreme min-maxing like tournament Players do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/07 11:10:53


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Eastern Kingdoms

Wayniac wrote:
Yeah. warhammer is best enjoyed when it's not super competitive. The game just isn't really designed for that. Strong lists sure but not extreme min-maxing like tournament Players do.


I totally Agree man, i dont care if i lose but if me and my Opponent are busting chops and have a good time while playing and he or she is a cool person then he or she mops the floor with me, hey it happens i'll work on my game for next time but at least i had a good time playing with that person and will likely play with them again.
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin






best thing i can say is suck it up buttercup.
the world is full of d-bags.

now, the real advice is to take it with a grain of salt and dont let it bother you.

some people are just wired this way and most of the time dont even realize they are doing it.
on the flip side some people relish in it.

its just something you have to come to live with when you go out in the world and interact with people.

having said that i think its why i've become a bit of a hermit =P
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Eastern Kingdoms

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
best thing i can say is suck it up buttercup.
the world is full of d-bags.

now, the real advice is to take it with a grain of salt and dont let it bother you.

some people are just wired this way and most of the time dont even realize they are doing it.
on the flip side some people relish in it.

its just something you have to come to live with when you go out in the world and interact with people.

having said that i think its why i've become a bit of a hermit =P


Haha agreed i know the score it just aggravates me seeing people take advantage of new people to get there rocks off, its hard doing this adult thing xP i miss the old days where you went outside and duked it out came back in and everyone could be friends again
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






There's definitely a world of difference between a tough game, and a buttmunch opponent.

When a game is hard fought, even when you're opponent has run rough shod over you, there's satisfaction.

But when your opponent is taking it all too seriously? That just sucks the fun out of it. Doesn't matter who claimed victory that day, if your opponent has placed their outcome above both sides having fun, it's gonna be a game to remember for the wrong reasons.

   
Made in be
Dakka Veteran






Our tournaments give more prize support to best sportmanship then to who actually wins the thing.

That way we have less "that guys" showing up as they will never ever have somebody vote for them in best sportmanship, and we look at army lists and refuse lists that are to hard. Easy to say that it are always the same TFG's that show up with OP lists.

The problem is that TFG's usually do not understand what you mean with don't overdo it and what sportmanship is. They would probably want a rulebook with how to do it so that they can get competitive about it too...

They think they are cool when all they do is win. They should learn that the pokemon world is not the real word.
   
Made in us
Clousseau




If you're going to play in tournaments just realize that... this is not an uncommon experience.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Toronto

There will be dicks in the gaming community. Fortunately, where I play I haven't run into any in the freestyle game circuit, but as soon as I get to tournaments I immediately run into people who will run a 2000 point Eldar army who will be incredibly rude and basically be as irritable as possible. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose to those people, but just ignore them either way.

Adepta Sororitas: 3,800 Points
Adeptus Custodes: 8,100 Points
Adeptus Mechanicus: 8,400 Points
Alpha Legion: 4,400 Points
Astra Militarum: 7,500 Points
Dark Angels: 16,800 Points
Imperial Knights: 12,500 Points
Legio Titanicus: 5,500 Points
Slaaneshi Daemons: 3,800 Points
 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot






Canada

I had the same experience trying to get back into the MTG scene a few years ago - all it takes is one socially-challenged douche to really put a damper on the whole experience.

Do your best to keep things in perspective and remember that these nerdy hobbies do not invite the most well-rounded and socially successful people.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/07 14:42:39


6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts

"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"

"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..." 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I do not see a problem here.

You sign up for a contest people show up to win. If you are not able to win that is a personal problem.

That would be like me showing up to a race and saying listen its not fair for you guys who want to win and try your best when I am not as good. I think you all should have to crawl to make the game more fun for me. Or worse If you show up and are better then me I want to take points off you because I suck.

I think thats what bugs me the most about the world now a days, you are never given credit for being good at something you get the same prize as the losers. So no one wants to try because everyone gets a trophy for HEY i showed up I am special too.

get good or get left behind, because thats life.

I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me. 
   
Made in us
Martial Arts Fiday






Nashville, TN

Feel sorry for people who's only way of feeling self worth is doing such as that. This game is a loser-magnet.

"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"

-Nobody Ever

Proverbs 18:2

"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

 warboss wrote:

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Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




OgreChubbs wrote:

get good or get left behind, because thats life.


I remember in the old days of comments like these. Usually they come from jocks or bullies. My how have times changed. In my day a nerd/geek/dork would never say these things. Now, we have become worse because some people are good with plastic toy soldiers or video games?


Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot






Canada

Davor wrote:
OgreChubbs wrote:

get good or get left behind, because thats life.


I remember in the old days of comments like these. Usually they come from jocks or bullies. My how have times changed. In my day a nerd/geek/dork would never say these things. Now, we have become worse because some people are good with plastic toy soldiers or video games?



Well, people who aren't particularly successful in other areas of life have to boost their own self-worth SOMEHOW.

"Look bro, I'm really good at net-listing and playing a broken army, I'M THE BEST AT LIFE."

6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts

"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"

"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..." 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Davor wrote:
OgreChubbs wrote:

get good or get left behind, because thats life.


I remember in the old days of comments like these. Usually they come from jocks or bullies. My how have times changed. In my day a nerd/geek/dork would never say these things. Now, we have become worse because some people are good with plastic toy soldiers or video games?



Well, people who aren't particularly successful in other areas of life have to boost their own self-worth SOMEHOW.

"Look bro, I'm really good at net-listing and playing a broken army, I'M THE BEST AT LIFE."
The irony is it's so easy to win with a competitive AoS list vs a non competitive one, doubly so against a new player. I know I could take my tourney list and faceroll most armies, ending the game round 2. But it doesn't make me a skilled player, just a player with a strong list. Honestly if someone wants to play that kind of game it's pathetic. It really is, and I don't say that lightly. Now in a tournament things are different, you are fighting for a prize and the goal is to win (and honestly my most boring tourney games still were one-sided victories) but it sounds like the OP was in a league rather than a tournament anyways.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





When you have as tiny a pool of players for AoS as we do, I will gladly play said asshat. eventually the dice gods will smite them. no matter how good your list or how OP, if you roll like scat, the other guy can win Yesterday I had 10 freeguild archers kill nagash thank you Karma

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/07 18:55:50


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Eastern Kingdoms

OgreChubbs wrote:
I do not see a problem here.

You sign up for a contest people show up to win. If you are not able to win that is a personal problem.

That would be like me showing up to a race and saying listen its not fair for you guys who want to win and try your best when I am not as good. I think you all should have to crawl to make the game more fun for me. Or worse If you show up and are better then me I want to take points off you because I suck.

I think thats what bugs me the most about the world now a days, you are never given credit for being good at something you get the same prize as the losers. So no one wants to try because everyone gets a trophy for HEY i showed up I am special too.

get good or get left behind, because thats life.


Like i said a few times here losing wasnt the issue, the issue was the guy was just being purely a gak heel of a human being as we played and to be honest i feel like i would have beaten him if i knew more what i was doing but thats beside the point. I could've been floored by someone who was cool about the whole thing and wasnt a dick about it and it would've been fine with me, just the fact this mouth breather had no respect for himself or anyone around him to be not a douche got to me is all
   
Made in ca
Plastictrees





Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Edgelord commentary aside, encountering jerks is just part of playing the game...any game.
There are reasons older players tend to stick to their groups. It's hard to justify rolling the dice on your 'one game a month' with randos if you have friends to play against.
You can either decide that the good experiences out weigh the bad or find a different way to play the game.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Yeah, really. Just imagine how hard it is to deal with jerk players when your hobby and game time has to fit the schedule of 2 small children and a new house. Every single game has to be worth your time, as they are so infrequent. I only play with a couple of very close friends, as I don't have the time to waste on a game where my opponent is no fun to spend time with.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/09 01:11:31




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Eastern Kingdoms


I hear you that's one point to me as well. i only play Fridays. After a long week of dealing with idiots in a work setting i want to come down and blow off steam and have a good time. Not have it wasted, but after thinking about it over the weekend, I set myself up for running into at least one ass hat normally i play casually against my brother, i shouldn't have joined a tournament assuming it was going to be all new players when i wasn't ready for a hard core competition setting. Only reason i joined was because my brother really wanted to play and he has a better handle on his army then i do mine. I'm still in between finding something that resonates well with my style so i was still getting a feel for what my army's like at a higher point value having only played it in small points and skirmish.
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






"signed up for a tournament".

There is your first problem you went into a tournament. There are always going to be power gamers lists. The other thing about sigmar is, there is so much randomness imo a tournament is not really viable unless you remove a lot of play options.

The other thing about sigmar, is it's about blowing your combo first. Not a lot of strat involved, I'd you go up against a wombo combo and they get it off first, odds are your dicked.

Take it as it comes and move on.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 Backspacehacker wrote:
"signed up for a tournament".

There is your first problem you went into a tournament. There are always going to be power gamers lists. The other thing about sigmar is, there is so much randomness imo a tournament is not really viable unless you remove a lot of play options.

The other thing about sigmar, is it's about blowing your combo first. Not a lot of strat involved, I'd you go up against a wombo combo and they get it off first, odds are your dicked.

Take it as it comes and move on.


The only thing that's true about this is the 'power gamer list' part. Sigmar's not any more random than games like Magic and Hearthstone and those get played competitively all the time. The combo thing is pretty much nonsense, the game at a competitive level is about objective control and positioning. Killing your opponent is only really a strategy for very specific lists and for when one player's army is severely outclassed(which is the player who decided to bring a weaker army's fault, not the guy that beat them).

If you don't enjoy competitive play, you don't enjoy competitive play and that's fine but this is just an example of playing a jerk. He'd have been just as much of an arse in open or narrative play. People suck at every level of the game, tournament level catches flak mostly because the relative power of the armies makes people realize just how small a fish they are, despite how big they feel back in their own pond.

As an aside, I've never had a problem with tournament players at a tournament and I've never had a problem with tournament players in casual games. I've had serious issues with narrative players in tournaments(Brings an obscenely powerful sylvaneth netlist he has no idea how to play, loses, blames his army despite him having the on paper advantage) and narrative players in casual games(I can't believe you'd bring *insert whatever unit did the best that game, doesn't matter if it's freakin aetherwings* that's such cheese!?!?!/1??!?)


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






AoS tourney lists are far more powerful than what people usually play, though. And a lot of armies can't compete in any serious capacity, not to get into a lack of build diversity among those that can. Unbalanced armies like that are disproportionately used by jerks, which leads to the stereotype. Like you said, though, its not universally true. FYI your post has the air of a tourney player that got triggered and is exclaiming how crappy narrative gamers are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/09 18:55:00


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Snord




Midwest USA

OgreChubbs wrote:
You sign up for a contest people show up to win. If you are not able to win that is a personal problem.

That would be like me showing up to a race and saying listen its not fair for you guys who want to win and try your best when I am not as good. I think you all should have to crawl to make the game more fun for me. Or worse If you show up and are better then me I want to take points off you because I suck.
If someone with absolutely no serious running experience tries to run a marathon, they will not be happy afterwards. Most people though are smart enough to realize what a marathon entails and the amount of practice and work that goes into preparing for one and participating in one.

In wargaming, one may not realize what all is needed to prepare for in a more "competitive" level. I mean, what should one expect from a hobby that includes the word "GAMING" in it?

OgreChubbs wrote:
I think thats what bugs me the most about the world now a days, you are never given credit for being good at something you get the same prize as the losers. So no one wants to try because everyone gets a trophy for HEY i showed up I am special too.
Who cares? If you just want to win, then win the game, go home, and be happy. Why do the winners feel the need to brag about how much better they are than others? The victory itself ought to be enough, so why do winners have to be loud and brash about being "better" than others at something?

Last I checked, humility and modesty were positive traits, virtues even, whilst hubris and arrogance are not.

OgreChubbs wrote:
get good or get left behind, because thats life.
No, that is not life. When someone is expecting a fun, relaxed game, that is what one should get. To be fair, one should check with their opponent before hand as to what each other's expectations are for the game so as not disappoint each other. But that is not an excuse for rude behavior. There CAN be an argument made for bringing "powerful lists" to a "competitive event", but that doesn't make it okay to be a bully and braggart. I mean, when I play, I will play for the objectives to the best of my ability. And I willingly and happily will throw the game if it means making my opponent have a better time.

How about instead of insisting on this old-fashioned logic to put down "weaker" opponents, we have a little honor, dignity, and grace in our competitions? Is that so much to ask? Let's show a little tact when we win or our dice decide to roll in our favor. Or better yet, let's play with our opponents instead of against them.

I mean, how much merit is there in bragging about PLAYING WITH TOY SOLDIER AND ROLLING DICE, right?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, really. Just imagine how hard it is to deal with jerk players when your hobby and game time has to fit the schedule of 2 small children and a new house. Every single game has to be worth your time, as they are so infrequent. I only play with a couple of very close friends, as I don't have the time to waste on a game where my opponent is no fun to spend time with.
QUOTED FOR TRUTH. Thankfully, my kids and wife are showing an interest in the hobby and my local AoS players are a bunch of cool guys who don't take the game too seriously. I'm trying to enjoy it while I can.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Eastern Kingdoms

I don't want my opponent to throw the game in my favor or go easy on me because i'm new losing WAS NOT the Issue his attitude was, I just expected a little more from someone 15-20 years older then me to act like an adult and not a natural cock head, or arrogant just because his army is overpowered and super competitive in a friendly setting.

I mean its not like we are playing Vegas or something haha there isn't 10 grand on the line, it was a 10$ buy in and its for a little amount of store credit.

Only 7-8 people signed up 5 of which counting me are relatively new or brand new and you could bring anywhere from 1000-2000 points.I decided to bump my list up to 2k to try it out at a higher level with more options but i didn't know much about the newer stuff i added.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/10 06:25:46


 
   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

It's a tournament. You are going to encounter people of all kinds in this setting, it's what (IMO) make them fun and interesting. Don't let it get to you though.

The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Uldakh wrote:
I don't want my opponent to throw the game in my favor or go easy on me because i'm new losing WAS NOT the Issue his attitude was, I just expected a little more from someone 15-20 years older then me to act like an adult and not a natural cock head, or arrogant just because his army is overpowered and super competitive in a friendly setting.

I mean its not like we are playing Vegas or something haha there isn't 10 grand on the line, it was a 10$ buy in and its for a little amount of store credit.

Only 7-8 people signed up 5 of which counting me are relatively new or brand new and you could bring anywhere from 1000-2000 points.I decided to bump my list up to 2k to try it out at a higher level with more options but i didn't know much about the newer stuff i added.

Maybe you where just a little to sensitive and didnt take the criticism or help well?

I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Eastern Kingdoms

OgreChubbs wrote:
 Uldakh wrote:
I don't want my opponent to throw the game in my favor or go easy on me because i'm new losing WAS NOT the Issue his attitude was, I just expected a little more from someone 15-20 years older then me to act like an adult and not a natural cock head, or arrogant just because his army is overpowered and super competitive in a friendly setting.

I mean its not like we are playing Vegas or something haha there isn't 10 grand on the line, it was a 10$ buy in and its for a little amount of store credit.

Only 7-8 people signed up 5 of which counting me are relatively new or brand new and you could bring anywhere from 1000-2000 points.I decided to bump my list up to 2k to try it out at a higher level with more options but i didn't know much about the newer stuff i added.

Maybe you where just a little to sensitive and didnt take the criticism or help well?


No that was perfectly fine because it was decent advice, it was so weird to be honest, like one minute he was helpful and semi-friendly then he was a snarky condescending dill weed it was like playing against two different people. like ill throw you some examples of the gak he was saying.

He would finish his turn in 2 minutes playing like 20 models to my 150 then be pissed and rush me when i was talking my turn. i dont remember exactly what he said about the speed but he was basically passive aggressively down talking me to match his speed. then when i would go to count out the dice i needed for a roll "Yay we know how to count" when i went to remove dice as misses he'd comment on how i did that. like everything was a passive aggressive comment about how i played and did things. then he would all of sudden be super helpful again. then he'd be cocky and then at points when i would gak on half his models he'd be semi-friendly again. i was standing there thinking to myself is this dude crazy in the head? then when he was sure to win he'd be cocky. i felt like i was in the twilight zone.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/10 12:06:56


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Maine

Almost sounds like some kind of cluster B personality disorder lol.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Eastern Kingdoms

 Thorax Abdomen wrote:
Almost sounds like some kind of cluster B personality disorder lol.

I know right? it was freaky i mean i wasnt saying anything derogatory to him to warrant the way he was acting. i was a little nervous it being my first tournament so i was cracking jokes about my own units and the weapons they have not making good hits as i was playing out my rolls to lighten the mood because he seemed super serious at the start.
   
 
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