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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I've only had a quick flick through the new codex so far, but I couldn't see anything that suggested that Pask, Company/Platoon Commanders, Tank Commanders etc can't issue orders to themselves.

Does this mean inthe Codex you can order yourself now? Or am I missing something and need to read the Codex in more detail?

Thanks
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






JamesWright83 wrote:
I've only had a quick flick through the new codex so far, but I couldn't see anything that suggested that Pask, Company/Platoon Commanders, Tank Commanders etc can't issue orders to themselves.

Does this mean inthe Codex you can order yourself now? Or am I missing something and need to read the Codex in more detail?

Thanks
There was never anything to suggest that. GW gave a special snowflake FAQ that ignores the rules. So until GW decide to do that again for the codex, go and enjoy following the rules.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 BaconCatBug wrote:
JamesWright83 wrote:
I've only had a quick flick through the new codex so far, but I couldn't see anything that suggested that Pask, Company/Platoon Commanders, Tank Commanders etc can't issue orders to themselves.

Does this mean inthe Codex you can order yourself now? Or am I missing something and need to read the Codex in more detail?

Thanks
There was never anything to suggest that. GW gave a special snowflake FAQ that ignores the rules. So until GW decide to do that again for the codex, go and enjoy following the rules.


Sorry, I'm not really sure what you're saying there. Do you mean that I'm interpreting it right, and that they can order themselves?
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Stockholm

JamesWright83 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
JamesWright83 wrote:
I've only had a quick flick through the new codex so far, but I couldn't see anything that suggested that Pask, Company/Platoon Commanders, Tank Commanders etc can't issue orders to themselves.

Does this mean inthe Codex you can order yourself now? Or am I missing something and need to read the Codex in more detail?

Thanks
There was never anything to suggest that. GW gave a special snowflake FAQ that ignores the rules. So until GW decide to do that again for the codex, go and enjoy following the rules.


Sorry, I'm not really sure what you're saying there. Do you mean that I'm interpreting it right, and that they can order themselves?


Correct. The previous limitation was in the Index and the errata to the index. This is all gone now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/07 18:47:03


~5000 points of IG and DKoK

I'm awful at reading private messages, so just reply to the threads I'm visiting.  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Aenarian wrote:


Correct. The previous limitation was in the Index and the errata to the index. This is all gone now.


Sooo Pask can now order himself?
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Derek4real wrote:
 Aenarian wrote:


Correct. The previous limitation was in the Index and the errata to the index. This is all gone now.


Sooo Pask can now order himself?


Yes, he is the correct unit type and within range of the ability so he can order himself.
Think of it as him ordering the tank crew around
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Anacortes

Im reading both rules as to orders, and they cannot order them selves with and order.

In a dog eat dog be a cat. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

This unit may issue one order per turn to the soldiers under their command at the start of their Shooting phase. Orders may only be issued to INFANTRY units within 6" of this unit that have the same <REGIMENT> keyword as this unit. To issue an order, pick a target unit and choose which order you wish to issue from the table below. A unit may only be affected by one order per turn.
- Voice of Command

Think it is all going to come down to how one personally views the words 'Under their Command.'

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/10/10 18:01:23


8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 JinxDragon wrote:
This unit may issue one order per turn to the soldiers under their command at the start of their Shooting phase. Orders may only be issued to INFANTRY units within 6" of this unit that have the same <REGIMENT> keyword as this unit. To issue an order, pick a target unit and choose which order you wish to issue from the table below. A unit may only be affected by one order per turn.
- Voice of Command

Think it is all going to come down to how one personally views the words 'Under their Command....'

Does the rule make sense without the troublesome phrase which has no clear rule meaning?

This unit may issue one order per turn... (snip)... at the start of their Shooting phase. Orders may only be issued to INFANTRY units within 6" of this unit that have the same <REGIMENT> keyword as this unit. To issue an order, pick a target unit and choose which order you wish to issue from the table below. A unit may only be affected by one order per turn.

Yes it does. Then its safe to conclude that its just fluff.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

That sentence has annoyed me in the past (not often I agree with JD I know) and I wish they'd dropped it. I have come to accept consensus it is just fluff and has no bearing on rules application.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

I was going to make a similar argument, stating there is no Mechanics for determining if a Unit are 'soldiers under their command...'

Could make an 'as intended' argument by stating the whole Rule was meant to be that very Mechanic:
Infantry Unit = Soldiers
Same <Regument> = Under Their Command

So... if I issue an order to my own Unit, I have issued an order to soldiers under my command!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/10 19:55:12


8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Tank Commanders / Pask are different they don;t have "Voice of Command" but "Tank Orders"

- they specfify a Friendly <Regiment> or < Cadian> (Pask) Leman Russ within 6"

Which they are themselves so they can currenlty issue orders to themselves?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 18:12:34


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

JhonnyHell,
I don't think you understand just how often that happens.
My number one hatred is colloquially using a 'defined word,' and many an argument is nothing more then Game Workshop doing just that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 18:14:48


8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 Mr Morden wrote:
Tank Commanders / Pask are different they don;t have "Voice of Command" but "Tank Orders"

- they specfify a Friendly <Regiment> or < Cadian> (Pask) Leman Russ within 6"

Which they are themselves so they can currenlty issue orders to themselves?


Depends on the wording.

Does it say Leman Russ, or does it say LEMAN RUSS? I'm assuming Tank Commanders are not Leman Russ' but have the LEMAN RUSS Keyword.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Happyjew wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Tank Commanders / Pask are different they don;t have "Voice of Command" but "Tank Orders"

- they specfify a Friendly <Regiment> or < Cadian> (Pask) Leman Russ within 6"

Which they are themselves so they can currenlty issue orders to themselves?


Depends on the wording.

Does it say Leman Russ, or does it say LEMAN RUSS? I'm assuming Tank Commanders are not Leman Russ' but have the LEMAN RUSS Keyword.


It says LEMAN RUSS and both Tank Commanders and Pask have the keyword LEMAN RUSS

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 18:44:19


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in nl
Bounding Assault Marine






HIWPI, Pask has the ability to order around a "friendly Cadian Leman Russ", and his own datasheet specifies 'Cadian' and 'Leman Russ' keywords with the same capitalization as the special rule. We can also stat he will be friendly towards himself.
I'd say his orders can work on himself.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

It's Keyword based now so he can self-order as he has that Keyword.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's Keyword based now so he can self-order as he has that Keyword.
Except the Index FAQ had a special snowflake FAQ ruling preventing him from doing so, thus the uncertainty.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's Keyword based now so he can self-order as he has that Keyword.
Except the Index FAQ had a special snowflake FAQ ruling preventing him from doing so, thus the uncertainty.


Aware of that, was answering the OP's question, and an Index FAQ isn't relevant to the Codex. It's nice and certain now as they tidied it up. Unless they FAQ it away again later, of course!

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's Keyword based now so he can self-order as he has that Keyword.
Except the Index FAQ had a special snowflake FAQ ruling preventing him from doing so, thus the uncertainty.


You keep calling it a special snowflake ruling. Why? Tank Orders (Index version) specifically disallowed ordering CHARACTERS. Knight Commander (Index) gives permission to order other CHARACTERS. As such, Pask could not order himself (due to Knight Commander) and Tank Commanders could not order themselves due to Tank Orders.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

He believed it incongruous with other similar rules, and just likes saying 'special snowflake' for some unknown reason. Not a fan of the phrase myself.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Doesn't matter what the Index FAQ says at this point. Same reason you'd not continue to use the FAQ from 7th edition. Outdated rules are outdated rules.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Happyjew wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's Keyword based now so he can self-order as he has that Keyword.
Except the Index FAQ had a special snowflake FAQ ruling preventing him from doing so, thus the uncertainty.


You keep calling it a special snowflake ruling. Why? Tank Orders (Index version) specifically disallowed ordering CHARACTERS. Knight Commander (Index) gives permission to order other CHARACTERS. As such, Pask could not order himself (due to Knight Commander) and Tank Commanders could not order themselves due to Tank Orders.
Tank Orders does not disallow ordering Characters.

"Tank Orders: Knight Commander Pask can issue orders to a friendly CADIAN LEMAN RUSS at the start of your Shooting phase. To issue a Tank Order, pick a target LEMAN RUSS within 6" of Knight Commander Pask and choose which order you wish to issue from the table to the right. Each LEMAN RUSS can only be given a single order each turn."

He can even specifically order other characters, while there is no mention of disallowing to order himself.
"Knight Commander: Knight Commander Pask may use the Tank Orders ability twice in each of your turns. Resolve the effects of the first order before issuing the second order. Note that Knight Commander Pask can issue orders to other CADIAN LEMAN RUSS CHARACTERS"

RAW he can order himself because he meets the criteria of "a friendly CADIAN LEMAN RUSS". There is no prohibition on ordering Characters like regular orders.

However, GW made the special snowflake ruling (because that's what it is, an FAQ ruling that ignores the Rules) to disallow it, and most likely will again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/11 10:23:31


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

I think its great tank commanders can order their own tank. it was silly that they couldn't order their own crew. And with the discount on normal LRBTs, it still makes sense to not bring an HQ.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Happyjew wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's Keyword based now so he can self-order as he has that Keyword.
Except the Index FAQ had a special snowflake FAQ ruling preventing him from doing so, thus the uncertainty.


You keep calling it a special snowflake ruling. Why? Tank Orders (Index version) specifically disallowed ordering CHARACTERS. Knight Commander (Index) gives permission to order other CHARACTERS. As such, Pask could not order himself (due to Knight Commander) and Tank Commanders could not order themselves due to Tank Orders.
Tank Orders does not disallow ordering Characters.

"Tank Orders: Knight Commander Pask can issue orders to a friendly CADIAN LEMAN RUSS at the start of your Shooting phase. To issue a Tank Order, pick a target LEMAN RUSS within 6" of Knight Commander Pask and choose which order you wish to issue from the table to the right. Each LEMAN RUSS can only be given a single order each turn."

He can even specifically order other characters, while there is no mention of disallowing to order himself.
"Knight Commander: Knight Commander Pask may use the Tank Orders ability twice in each of your turns. Resolve the effects of the first order before issuing the second order. Note that Knight Commander Pask can issue orders to other CADIAN LEMAN RUSS CHARACTERS"

RAW he can order himself because he meets the criteria of "a friendly CADIAN LEMAN RUSS". There is no prohibition on ordering Characters like regular orders.

However, GW made the special snowflake ruling (because that's what it is, an FAQ ruling that ignores the Rules) to disallow it, and most likely will again.


I was referring to Tank Orders that generic Tank Commanders had, did not realize that it was worded differently for Pask. Even then, it is clear that the intent was that he could not normally order Characters, without the Knight Commander rule, as otherwise giving permission to order Characters does nothing.

Either way, that ruling does not apply unless you are using the Index.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey guys,

I have a question about orders too.

I know in the past you had to issue an order an resolve it immediately. In 8th I think the wording doesn`t state it implicitly.
I'm confused now. Can I issue orders at the beginning of my shooting phase and then resolve them later?

Thanks
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Subscan wrote:
Hey guys,

I have a question about orders too.

I know in the past you had to issue an order an resolve it immediately. In 8th I think the wording doesn`t state it implicitly.
I'm confused now. Can I issue orders at the beginning of my shooting phase and then resolve them later?

Thanks
The ordered unit does NOT have to immediately act. All Orders do is give a buff to a unit for as long as the order says to buff them.

As for what "the start of their Shooting phase" means in regards to issuing orders, it could be argued either way, that they all must be given together at the start, or that you can pick and choose when to give them by activating units to shoot.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/12 13:19:13


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Agreed. You issue all orders you want to at the start of the Shooting Phase, but they can do them whenever during the phase, as you're no longer told to resolve immediately (as further evidenced by the 'until the end of the phase' wording in each order).

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

Move move move and fix bayonets are the exceptions, as both say to do immediately.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks for your answers.

It all made sense to me until I read the Company Commander rules.
"Resolve the effect of the first order before issuing the next one." To me it implies to use the order immediately, because all orders have to be issued at the start of the shooting phase.
Have I missed sth?
   
 
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