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I've been involved with GW for decades now. First and foremost, I'd consider myself a hobbyist. I prefer customizing my models more than playing or painting. So, to get some discussion going, what the heck is up with GW lately? I was really interested in the Death Guard release until I realized that the models are, for the most part, not pose-able.

1. Biologus Putrifier - Monoposed
2. Blightlord Terminators - Monoposed, some weapon swaps
3. Dark Imperium - Monoposed (obviously)
4. Deathshroud Bodyguard - Monoposed
5. Easy to Build: DG Plague Marines - Monoposed
6. Easy to Build: DG Poxwalkers - Monoposed
7. Foetid Blight-drone - Monoposed, some weapon swaps
8. Foul Blightspawn - Monoposed
9. Mortarion - Choice between two arm poses, otherwise monoposed
10. Nauseous Rotbone - Monoposed
11. Plague Marine Champion - Monoposed
12. Plague Marine Icon Bearer - Monoposed
13. Plague Marines - Monoposed, some weapon swaps
14. Plagueburst Crawler - Monoposed, some weapon swaps
15. Scribbus Wretch - Monoposed
16. The Plague Brethren - Monoposed
17. Typhus - Monoposed

Look, I'll give the Plaguecrawler and the Blight-drone a pass because they're vehicles and those are normally not pose-able. The rest of the army is made up of things with two arms and two legs (before mutations!). Barring the odd weapon swap, there isn't a truly pose-able kit in the entire army at this point. It turns me off from the entire army.

Do we think this is going to be the new standard? I understand that the recent Primaris releases were largely not pose-able either. I think the Dread was the only thing that could really be posed.

character should also be left out, they hardly ever make pose-able characters

terry wrote:
character should also be left out, they hardly ever make pose-able characters

I only partially agree with this statement. Unit upgrades like the Champion, Icon Bearer and maybe even the Apothecary would historically have been included in the box as upgrade bits. Take a dude, glue on a power fist, plague sword and the fancy helmet. Boom, Champion. Take a dude, glue on the icon arm. Boom, Icon Bearer. Take a dude, glue on the apothecary backpack, should pad and narthecium. Boom, Apothecary.

I'll agree that named characters are generally not pose-able. Charging $25 for a unit leader with no upgrades and no ability to pose seems crazy.

Doesn't change my point that nothing is really pose-able in the army.

Kits since i believe the sigmarines have all been mono pose, actually i think it goes as far back as blight kings or skaven storm vermin. though there has been an increase in bits to doodle on your mono poses.

whatever is going on its been planed for a long time.

though personally out side of some character models i dont mind.

and most of the new kits dont have integrated arms so building variate is hardly an issue.

Like how many strange custom poses do you need for a space marine, or imperial guardsmen. there might be some argument for wakky chaos.

This sucks. It means we will never have poseable Sisters of Battle.
I hate you GW.

If for a model to be posseable, it needs to have the torso and the legs separated, and being able to pose the arms isn't considered "poseable", yes. All the recent models have been "Not-poseable" because all have the torsos or at least half of the torso and the legs in one fixed pose.

Characters have been mono-pose since they started doing plastics in blisters back at the beginning of 8th edition WHFB back in 2010. You can't count those because the last pose-able character kit for 40k was what, the Terminator Chaos Lord?

Including characters, easy build kits, and vehicles just looks to be a poor attempt at padding and creating a big list. It boils down to the three units, the Blightlords, Deathshroud and Plague Marines. The Blightlords appear to be as pose-able as any other terminator unit and the plague marines appear to have some arms which are standard marine arms which allow some movement. It is really the Deathshroud which are full mono-pose.

Putting together some of the new Primaris kits and while they are mono-body, their arms are still fully pose-able in the range of other mono-body kits that go back a decade. Had to deal with this when assembling the Black Orc plastic kit when it came out last decade.

 Desubot wrote:
Kits since i believe the sigmarines have all been mono pose, actually i think it goes as far back as blight kings or skaven storm vermin. though there has been an increase in bits to doodle on your mono poses.

whatever is going on its been planed for a long time.

though personally out side of some character models i dont mind.

and most of the new kits dont have integrated arms so building variate is hardly an issue.

Like how many strange custom poses do you need for a space marine, or imperial guardsmen. there might be some argument for wakky chaos.

It's not an issue of 'strange custom poses'. It's an issue of playing an army and not wanting your dudes to look exactly the same. For something like Intercessors, it's not much of an issue as they each look more or less identical to begin with. If I have two units, it just looks like a bunch of consistently equipped Intercessors. With Plague Marines, there is a ton of detail. They don't all look the same and aren't all consistently equipped. If the Champion is mono-posed, every unit of Plague Marines will have the same Champion model. At best, you can build him with or without a helmet. It gets repetitive very quickly.

If you combine the DI set with the Plague Marine box you have 14 models with unique poses. You're right the champions would be an issue, but honestly, who is going to buy the standalone Champion model anyway?

This is already a thread in the 40k general section, and I left a more lengthy reply to this subject there. But ultimately I don't really mind these monopose DG models because they're still relatively easy to convert and customize, while giving you detail and dynamic poses that wouldn't be possible otherwise. I like them a lot more than multipart marine kits where you can rotate the hips but they all end up looking the same anyway. I'm all for it.

The thing that burns my biscuit is that each of these kits only comes with one or two of each special weapon.

I tend to prefer monopose models if it means the poses look more natural, which it usually does. It's a bit annoying when the only available pose looks a bit derpy though.

I haven't really followed the death guard releases to have an opinion on them specifically though, I'm talking in the more general sense.

Personally I'm fine with it - probably because I play mostly metals anyway, and it's never impacted how I like the models - they're still great.

I do think the direction they're headed is very much:

Buy it.
Build it.
Play it with what's in the kit.
Done.

An easier approach to new gamers, etc. I do think it sucks that wargear options have disappeared from many codex entries --- however I only play casual games and I don't care at all if you show up "Hey I bought a plasma pistol for my Captain..." or whatever. Cool, just pay the points.

Guys? Have you ever looked at GW's old line? Most of it is made up of mono-posed models, especially the old metals. Characters have long been sculpted as a single pose, some with minor variation such as an arm that can be rotated or a head swap. Look at the Dark Eldar Mandrakes (or anything else in the Dark Eldar Elites section) as an example of entire units being mono-pose.

We're noticing this more now because of the intro kits and one-off games such as Kill Team and such along with single character models being released in a clamshell pack. Units like the Thousand Sons and Doom Guard troops are still very much multi-pose with many options on the sprue.

Sounds like I'm in the minority here. Oh well. Such is life. It does mean that GW is far less likely to get my gaming dollars in the future. If I'm stuck with mono posed models, I'm going to pick the system with the best rules. 40k definitely doesn't have the most well written rules out there.

Star Wars Legion is looking more and more like it will replace 40k for me when it hits around January or so.

I also prefer the old multi pose models. Space Marines and Tyranid Warriors were just fun to play around with, that way. The Harlequins are the last multipose minis I can recall being released, but their leg poses are too extreme to work well outside of a few torso and arm combinations.

If I wanted to play a game where units had no loadout or personalization options, I would play Warmachine. Monopose=not buying.

It's not really hard to kit out and customize these newer models. The thing that sucks is that you will have to obtain extra sprues in order to get all the weapons you want.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
If I wanted to play a game where units had no loadout or personalization options, I would play Warmachine. Monopose=not buying.

Loadout options is a different issue to monopose. You can have a monopose model with weapon options.

As for personalisation options.... they're made from plastic, grab a knife and some glue and go at it. They're a hell of a lot easier to convert in to your own creation than the old days of metal models.

 Luciferian wrote:
It's not really hard to kit out and customize these newer models. The thing that sucks is that you will have to obtain extra sprues in order to get all the weapons you want.

Yeah... in an infinite universe, all things are possible. Conversion is always a possibility. What's really missing is the ability to easily kit bash. Without separate and compatible components, it's very difficult and time consuming to add real variety to your army. The old school Marines are a great example of a model line designed for kit bashing. You can swap arms between almost any Marine, including a decent number of the mono-posed blister packs. Death Guard units aren't like this. You can't easily swap arms around, even in the same kit. You can't swap legs. You usually can't swap heads or shoulder pads. Maybe you can swap back packs.

While the detail on GW models has improved over time, the ability to easily kit bash has dropped to almost non existent levels.

Were there ever a lot of multipose models? Any two-handed weapon, like a bolter, lasgun, shuriken catapult or whatever, has to be sculpted for one pose. Take a basic tactical marine. The bolter + arms can't be reposed unless you want to convert. The legs are static. You basically get control over which way he's looking and nothing else, unless you want to bring out your knife and green stuff and convert him, which you can still do with a new Death Guard marine.

Oh, and for many truly multipose models, most of the poses looked rather stupid. I'd rather have more of the same than the Ministry of Silly Poses.

When a games console is in its last death throes, they always seem to release it in bright yellow with a pokemon game bundled with it.

I kinda feel this is how 8th edition has gone.
Simplified rules and simplified figures.

GW can make by far the best figures, yet they're simplifying them for the pokemon crowd, as they did with the rules.

(And no, I'm not saying GW are in their death throes, probably the opposite)

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
When a games console is in its last death throes, they always seem to release it in bright yellow with a pokemon game bundled with it.

I kinda feel this is how 8th edition has gone.
Simplified rules and simplified figures.

GW can make by far the best figures, yet they're simplifying them for the pokemon crowd, as they did with the rules.

(And no, I'm not saying GW are in their death throes, probably the opposite)

Ignoring the fact GW are financially doing very well at the moment. The figures aren't simplified. They're absolutely caked in detail that takes way longer to paint than older models that had a more simplistic design.

And in spite of being monopose they often have no less parts than previous multipose models.

They're definitely not simplified models.

And the rules needed simplifying, they were absurdly and unnecessarily complicated due to GW building on the same core rules for 18 years (3rd edition through 7th). 3rd edition was also intended as a simplification of the rules coming from 2nd edition.

No, the change to monopose isn't for the sake of simplification, it's so they have more control over the models' poses and in many cases to have more natural joints. Look at the shoulders of the old multipose Marauders compared to the monopose Kairic Acolyte models, the Marauders are the ones that look like bad action figures, the Acolytes are some of the best human models GW has made.

I'd say it's because GW wants models that look better in catalogues as they know many gamers are sold on such things.

Primaris were not monopose, so no. It is just a thing they did because of the artistic direction they went in with the Death Guard I guess. For armies that are less individualistic and covered in mutations and gribbly bits (and thus require simpler miniatures) they are probably going to do multipose again.

 Kriswall wrote:


Yeah... in an infinite universe, all things are possible. Conversion is always a possibility. What's really missing is the ability to easily kit bash. Without separate and compatible components, it's very difficult and time consuming to add real variety to your army. The old school Marines are a great example of a model line designed for kit bashing. You can swap arms between almost any Marine, including a decent number of the mono-posed blister packs. Death Guard units aren't like this. You can't easily swap arms around, even in the same kit. You can't swap legs. You usually can't swap heads or shoulder pads. Maybe you can swap back packs.

While the detail on GW models has improved over time, the ability to easily kit bash has dropped to almost non existent levels.

Uh, did you see the picture? Those guys have pieces from the Putrid Blightkings, Mark III Tactical Squad and Possessed. I did all of that in one evening and the hardest thing I had to do was cut off a couple of heads and hands and use a file. They all still have pretty standard shoulder joints so arm swaps are easy, too. Pretty much as easy as it's ever been, plus you get to play with some really cool poses that would take a LOT more work to create with a more interchangeable kit. Telling me they're impossible or even difficult to convert and personalize doesn't really work because I know, from actually doing it, that's not true. If I made a squad of 14 guys by combining the DI and Plague Marine boxes then every single one of them would be totally distinct in a way that IS very difficult to achieve with a regular multipart kit.

 Kriswall wrote:
While the detail on GW models has improved over time, the ability to easily kit bash has dropped to almost non existent levels.

Not really, they just made it so you actually have to use a knife to do it now. They've even had some videos on Warhammer TV showing kit bashes of monopose models.

I want you to go further back in your history as a hobbyist and think of any nurgle kits that have not been mono pose. There are very few of them.

Plague drones...

Yup, that is it as far as I can recall. Sure, non nurgle minis, like the daemon prince have had other poses, but the Nurgle daemon prince does not. Even when you add in the fantasy side, Nurgle specific models have pretty much always been mono pose. As for armies that are mono pose in the past. Chaos Daemons are all very mono pose save for a few models. Plague drones, Daemon prince... soul grinder? Daemonettes had joints in their shoulders and neck I guess.

This isn't anything new.

 Kriswall wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:
It's not really hard to kit out and customize these newer models. The thing that sucks is that you will have to obtain extra sprues in order to get all the weapons you want.

While the detail on GW models has improved over time, the ability to easily kit bash has dropped to almost non existent levels.

Bull

Building some Primaris marines right now with Intercessor bodies, Reiver arms, and FW shoulder pads. Able to use the power sword from the Mk IV set no problem. There is still plenty of interchangeability with new kits. The Plague Marine troop kit isn't out and you've already declared it unkitbashable.

Heck last week they showed up some conversion by Duncan using Stormcast and Arcanists.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/04/converting-your-own-free-city-oct-4gw-homepage-post-3/

 silent25 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:
It's not really hard to kit out and customize these newer models. The thing that sucks is that you will have to obtain extra sprues in order to get all the weapons you want.

While the detail on GW models has improved over time, the ability to easily kit bash has dropped to almost non existent levels.

Bull

Building some Primaris marines right now with Intercessor bodies, Reiver arms, and FW shoulder pads. Able to use the power sword from the Mk IV set no problem. There is still plenty of interchangeability with new kits. The Plague Marine troop kit isn't out and you've already declared it unkitbashable.

Heck last week they showed up some conversion by Duncan using Stormcast and Arcanists.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/04/converting-your-own-free-city-oct-4gw-homepage-post-3/

Managed to get a sternguard powersword in sheath on a primarus marine as well.

 Cream Tea wrote:
Were there ever a lot of multipose models? Any two-handed weapon, like a bolter, lasgun, shuriken catapult or whatever, has to be sculpted for one pose. Take a basic tactical marine. The bolter + arms can't be reposed unless you want to convert. The legs are static. You basically get control over which way he's looking and nothing else, unless you want to bring out your knife and green stuff and convert him, which you can still do with a new Death Guard marine.

Oh, and for many truly multipose models, most of the poses looked rather stupid. I'd rather have more of the same than the Ministry of Silly Poses.

Agreed.

As I posted a few days ago in one of the daily threads on this topic:

Let's not kid ourselves here.

The classic multipose model is really 4 sculpts of each body piece that can be combined into minor variations of the "taking a poop standing up" pose with little rotation really possible in the belt and shoulder joints before it starts looking unnatural. Most of the time, an army of 10 different monopose sculpts will usually look more diverse than an army of "multi-part" sculpts that are really just the same model looking slightly more to the left or slightly more to the right.

Example:

See if you can spot the two starter box Plague Marines that share the same legs/rear torso piece.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:
Were there ever a lot of multipose models? Any two-handed weapon, like a bolter, lasgun, shuriken catapult or whatever, has to be sculpted for one pose. Take a basic tactical marine. The bolter + arms can't be reposed unless you want to convert. The legs are static. You basically get control over which way he's looking and nothing else, unless you want to bring out your knife and green stuff and convert him, which you can still do with a new Death Guard marine.

Oh, and for many truly multipose models, most of the poses looked rather stupid. I'd rather have more of the same than the Ministry of Silly Poses.

Agreed.

As I posted a few days ago in one of the daily threads on this topic:

Let's not kid ourselves here.

The classic multipose model is really 4 sculpts of each body piece that can be combined into minor variations of the "taking a poop standing up" pose with little rotation really possible in the belt and shoulder joints before it starts looking unnatural. Most of the time, an army of 10 different monopose sculpts will usually look more diverse than an army of "multi-part" sculpts that are really just the same model looking slightly more to the left or slightly more to the right.

The most you can mess with is the arms and straight torso swaps for other kits like jump pack dood with standing legs instead of running legs.

thats about it.

 lord_blackfang wrote:


See if you can spot the two starter box Plague Marines that share the same legs/rear torso piece.

I know which ones they are because I've been working with them. Those two models are also posed more closely to a poop squatting marine than any of the others, and as a result are probably the easiest candidates for straight up head and arm swaps. However, their pose is also the least interesting and fun to work with by far.

Conversely, in order to recreate even that model with something like the Mark III Tactical Squad kit would take more bits from more sprues, and it just wouldn't look as natural. Trying to recreate the other poses in the DI set with TAC bits would require cutting and re-positioning nearly every joint. In fact, I have to do more work on the bits I'm taking from other kits than I do on the DI models themselves.