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We've been constantly sold the tale that the Imperium is losing the ability to produce advanced equipment OR has decided that it's more efficient to produce cheaper/ easier to maintain vehicles and equipment for the front-lines.

Yet somehow after the Imperium has been split asunder, it has the tech AND/OR the abundance of materials to throw into making super-advanced vehicles/equipment.

How? If they can make stuff like this and the Grav repulsor -----

they could have been making Mastodons or other 'lost' tech.

Is Rowboat crippling Imperial production in other areas to simply supply his Primaris?

The way I have interpreted it is that Cawl has been stockpiling this stuff for the last 10,000 years in secret, which is why we are suddenly seeing lots of new / old technology pulled from seemingly nowhere.
He also seems to have led a palace coup amongst the Mechanicum hierarchy, with the backing of Guilliman, as they seem to be swallowing his massive tech heresy for now.

But eventually the stockpiles will wear thin and his relationship with Guilliman will become strained, then we can only hope that we see some more cool stories evolve out of the wrangling between the more conservative and radical elements of the Imperium.

I do like the idea of Roboute abusing his new position to suck resources into the Primaris project which is bleeding other organisations in the Imperium white.

You're acting surprised that the Admech has the ability to spit out virtually anything at a blistering rate, but doesn't because normally it just doesn't care? This is what happens when a high level Magos forces them to care about the Imperium's well being beyond the status quo. Logistics isn't an issue for the Admech at all considering they can construct artificial moons or pump out entire fleets. This is also the same faction whose basic infantry can kill a planet by simply shooting their guns too much, yet almost never bring that kind of devastation to bear for the sake of the Imperium.

The AdMech COULD build so much more new technology, and even old techology in bucketloads. The issue is stigma and ritualisation of technology. For example, the Traditionalists only us STC technology and with that being a limit resource, there can only be a certain variety of vehicles. For example, if there is 20 STC blueprints for Rhino based vehicles, including 5 dfferent Razorbacks (HB, HF, LC, AC, LasPlas), then only 5 variants can be made, even though Plasma Cannons are totally doable and easy, and there's even working prototypes, because they aren't STC they can't be done.

Then you can have the ritual issue. Making a bolter shell takes a relatively short time compared to say, a tank, but it would be a hell of a lot quicker if you didn't have to complete a sermon every time you add the propellant, and building a starship could be done in half the time if you didn't have to coat the thing in holy oil derived from Neptune's atmosphere. If every cog, nut, bolt and rivet has to be hand-engraved with the right symbols before it can be put into place, it takes a lot longer to do.

The Imperium could *always* have developed and progressed, but for its religious approach to technology, keeping everything obfuscated behind litanies and ritual.

Cawl must be considered an arch heretic by many for dabbling, experimenting and *gasp* progressing technology! Still, he hasn't gone completely new, he's largely bolted other bits of old and new tech to make an amalgam... but it's the closest the Imperium has had for progress and new toys for 10,000 years.

...apart from Centurions we're meant to believe were there all along.
And Stormravens.
And Land Raider variants.
And grav weapons.
And Dreadknights.
And... well, I could go on. The retcon is strong with GW!

Thankfully the background progression in 8th does give GW room to add new things without pretending they have always been there.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The Imperium could *always* have developed and progressed, but for its religious approach to technology, keeping everything obfuscated behind litanies and ritual.

Cawl must be considered an arch heretic by many for dabbling, experimenting and *gasp* progressing technology! Still, he hasn't gone completely new, he's largely bolted other bits of old and new tech to make an amalgam... but it's the closest the Imperium has had for progress and new toys for 10,000 years.

...apart from Centurions we're meant to believe were there all along.
And Stormravens.
And Land Raider variants.
And grav weapons.
And Dreadknights.
And... well, I could go on. The retcon is strong with GW!

Grav weapons at least were there the whole time. They were a solid bit of Rogue Trader lore. Marines even had a specific shoulder pad designation for a grav gunner.

 Deadshot wrote:
The AdMech COULD build so much more new technology, and even old techology in bucketloads. The issue is stigma and ritualisation of technology. For example, the Traditionalists only us STC technology and with that being a limit resource, there can only be a certain variety of vehicles. For example, if there is 20 STC blueprints for Rhino based vehicles, including 5 dfferent Razorbacks (HB, HF, LC, AC, LasPlas), then only 5 variants can be made, even though Plasma Cannons are totally doable and easy, and there's even working prototypes, because they aren't STC they can't be done.

Then you can have the ritual issue. Making a bolter shell takes a relatively short time compared to say, a tank, but it would be a hell of a lot quicker if you didn't have to complete a sermon every time you add the propellant, and building a starship could be done in half the time if you didn't have to coat the thing in holy oil derived from Neptune's atmosphere. If every cog, nut, bolt and rivet has to be hand-engraved with the right symbols before it can be put into place, it takes a lot longer to do.

This plus they like all imperial orgonisation are semi rivals, and Don, t quite act as a united front or want to give a rival too much power.

Now if thr ad mech decide to turn there full power and resources to a task then they can transform entire planets, built fleets and produce at a rate no other race can match.

However it takes alot for them to do so. If the admech and cawl threw the fill power behind arming the primias. They could easily have regiments of war machines lined up, thousands of suits of Armour and many hundred overlords lined up on parade grounds.

Also older tech like marstadons or storm birds may not have been forgotten just not viable or in demand ernough to war rent mass production.

Imperial technology is still STC-based. The AdMech hoards STC templates. Cawl, being as old and powerful as he is, likely has a significant personal hoard of STC templates that he simply wasn't willing to share (pretty much the entire AdMech in a nutshell) until Guilliman made him share it.
Old technology like Mastodons are probably based off templates that are no longer extant (something that happens when the Forge World a template is held gets destroyed).

 Otto Weston wrote:
We've been constantly sold the tale that the Imperium is losing the ability to produce advanced equipment OR has decided that it's more efficient to produce cheaper/ easier to maintain vehicles and equipment for the front-lines.

Yet somehow after the Imperium has been split asunder, it has the tech AND/OR the abundance of materials to throw into making super-advanced vehicles/equipment.

How? If they can make stuff like this and the Grav repulsor -----

Spoiler:

they could have been making Mastodons or other 'lost' tech.

Is Rowboat crippling Imperial production in other areas to simply supply his Primaris?

Well, the Imperium is enourmous. Cawl only had to produce enough equipment for a few hundred thousand Primaris. He probably did it on the sly using leftover martian manufacturing budgets.... Compared to the normal Imperial armies and star fleets, a few hundred thousand Primaris and their equipment is a round off error. Even with the higher tech.

In addition to the Ad-mech not wanting to "innovate," they also don't want the rest of the imperium to ever get too strong. They're the empire within an empire, and they want the Imperium to be just strong enough to protect the Adeptus Mechanicus, without ever being so strong it might think it doesn't desperately need them.

 argonak wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
We've been constantly sold the tale that the Imperium is losing the ability to produce advanced equipment OR has decided that it's more efficient to produce cheaper/ easier to maintain vehicles and equipment for the front-lines.

Yet somehow after the Imperium has been split asunder, it has the tech AND/OR the abundance of materials to throw into making super-advanced vehicles/equipment.

How? If they can make stuff like this and the Grav repulsor -----

Spoiler:

they could have been making Mastodons or other 'lost' tech.

Is Rowboat crippling Imperial production in other areas to simply supply his Primaris?

Well, the Imperium is enourmous. Cawl only had to produce enough equipment for a few hundred thousand Primaris. He probably did it on the sly using leftover martian manufacturing budgets.... Compared to the normal Imperial armies and star fleets, a few hundred thousand Primaris and their equipment is a round off error. Even with the higher tech.

In addition to the Ad-mech not wanting to "innovate," they also don't want the rest of the imperium to ever get too strong. They're the empire within an empire, and they want the Imperium to be just strong enough to protect the Adeptus Mechanicus, without ever being so strong it might think it doesn't desperately need them.

They hide alot of best tech. They only give what they allow people to have. They also hold so much back for own armies because no one wants to over gun your enemies.

They hide some insanely powerful weaponry in there vaults and forgeworlds, they have alot more tech than they deploy on a regular basis. There ships are upgraded to levels no one else has.

They have rad guns, and alot of skitari etc etc they Don, t share outside the ad mech.

So what you guys are saying is that Cawl is a Levelist -

http://calixipedia.wikia.com/wiki/Levelists

Surprising that he hasn't been assassinated yet.

The Mechanicus never seems to want to play nice at all with the rest of the Imperium. How/why they haven't been forced to comply vs being repeatedly slapped on the hand for not, you know, helping (Beast Arises, for example) is beyond me. Titans? lol But yeah, I felt the same way when the Primarily Better Marines came out of no where with super tech in a backwards, technologically devolving empire (especially when compared to the Old Night). like, dude, how many times could the imperium have used super-super humans and super super heavy tanks? I mean, yeah, maybe he was awaiting for Rowboats permission, but come on, he didnt ask permission to mess with traitor legion gene seed- lol he even wanted to make traitor legion primaris marines, but Rowboat was all LOL NO BRO, AND NO TO EVERYTHING ELSE YOU EVER ASK ME BECAUSE OF THIS.

Jaeduece wrote:
The Mechanicus never seems to want to play nice at all with the rest of the Imperium. How/why they haven't been forced to comply vs being repeatedly slapped on the hand for not, you know, helping (Beast Arises, for example) is beyond me. Titans? lol But yeah, I felt the same way when the Primarily Better Marines came out of no where with super tech in a backwards, technologically devolving empire (especially when compared to the Old Night). like, dude, how many times could the imperium have used super-super humans and super super heavy tanks? I mean, yeah, maybe he was awaiting for Rowboats permission, but come on, he didnt ask permission to mess with traitor legion gene seed- lol he even wanted to make traitor legion primaris marines, but Rowboat was all LOL NO BRO, AND NO TO EVERYTHING ELSE YOU EVER ASK ME BECAUSE OF THIS.

No one has slapped them down, because its generally considered unwise to piss off the guys who keep your ships flying and make your weapons when you're trying to fight a war. The Imperium's relationship with the Ad-Mech has always been complicated. The Emperor was the only one who could have truly reigned them in, and he was too busy making use of them to bother. There's no one now with the influence to threaten them, and if they ever withdrew their support from the Imperium it would be the end. The tanks would stop moving. The planes would stop flying. The hives would die.

Not to mention that 'knowledge is a power, guard it well' so transfer of templates or FW certification to produce something not so commmon is a big deal - AMs are not big on sharing even among themselves...