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Is there a way? Local guy claims Shadowsword, but that doesn't reliably hurt Magnus does it?

Nothing is gonna kill two Daemon Primarchs in decent time. So Kill the rest of their army is a better choice, the two guys together is around 900 points. So there can't be many units for the rest army. Alougth admittedly that is not an easy job because Tsons marine and Terminators are all quite tough, and the Deathguard Bloated Drone are incredibly tough.

It's more Magnus than Morty that I'm concerned about. Morty can be shot off the table (if I put all 2000 points of guard into him.) Magnus? I'm at a loss.

A spin on this same query: what if your opponent brought this wombo-combo to a 1k points game?

1k points of psykers?

I wouldn't play that opponent. Clearly they want something different from the game than I do as a casual player. Nothing about that game excites me.

I haven't faced Magnus yet but I had my first encounter with Mortarian tonight, 2k Death Guard vs Cadians. The 2 CP stratagem Overlapping Fields of Fire and a wall of fire took him down. In all it was roughly 6 lascannon shots, 6 missle launchers, 6 meltaguns, 8 overcharged plasma shots, a Battle cannon, a Punisher, and say about 25 lasguns to get it done. Admittedly, that was most of what I had in the army but he went down after killing a single 47 point squad of guys.

Audustum wrote:
A spin on this same query: what if your opponent brought this wombo-combo to a 1k points game?

That's like asking what you would do if Derek Jeter was on the little league team your kid is playing against. There's nothing you can do. They brought an all-star to a scrub match. Pick better game limitations. GW won't do it for you. Our Friday Night 1k games disallow anything over 12 wounds.

As for how to kill Magnus, volume of fire drops him turn 1 almost every game. Or puts him low enough that a few more wounds finish him off. He can only kill one or two units at most in a single turn so unless he just dropped your 750 pt titan then you should be coming out ahead. If you murder him before he even gets to go then you knocked off over 400 pts unscathed and all the psychic shenanigans he would have done.

You bring 30 Malefic lords and you kill them with Mortal wounds.

If someone wants to bring such a silly list against you, they should not be allowed to complain if you bring the cheesiest cheese against them.

As for how *I* would deal with them : I wouldn't. Where I play, LoW are only for "apocalypse" games (2500pts or more). If someone brought that against me at a tournament, I would just surrender and wait for next round.

Depends. What army are you using?

Morty is more durable pre-psychic buffs. How are you worried about Magnus over Morty when it comes to shooting him off the table?

Personally without a changling or 3 Deathshroud terms protecting their respected Primarchs both die pretty fast. I say this as I am running 5 Ravens and Guilliman. I mean they asked for this when they brought two Primarches :thinking:

Guards can pretty effectively do the same amount of Dakka to one of the primarchs. I'd aim for Magnus first as he does more damage Turn1 and prevents Warptime as well. Definitely the better target of the two. After psychic buffs, Magnus with a 3++, reroll 1s and Mort with a -1 to hit, (and potential +1 Toughness on Magnus) - that's when it starts getting hard. But that's 8th for you. It's definitely a "go first, win first" edition.

I killed Morty with a single squad of BA Devastators. I also brought a termie assault squad (3 ST/TH and 2 Light Claws) with a Sanguinary Priest in tow. The Deathshroud were more annoying with the range weapon that allows them to do D6 shots. Yeah, they're S3, but 2 units of 3 DS, Shots add up quick.

So I'm actually going to a tournament where I expect to see multiple Morty/Mag teams (about 60 people). Fortunately, it's a 2v2 tournament (1k each player) so we should have a bit more flexibility. It seems Psyker and Mortal Wound spam is the answer so far which is nice because I was considering playing Grey Knights.

I'm surprised on the LoW hate. We're unrestricted in my area. Your opponents' are likely bringing tournament or cheese lists so be ready to deal with it or be prepared to lose (which is fine too, we don't always have to win to have fun).

Audustum wrote:
I'm surprised on the LoW hate. We're unrestricted in my area. Your opponents' are likely bringing tournament or cheese lists so be ready to deal with it or be prepared to lose (which is fine too, we don't always have to win to have fun).

Agreed. Lords of war are not inherently more broken than any other units in the game. You should expect to see them at tournaments and that's fine. I was shocked by the suggestion of just sitting out a tournament game because of the other guy's army list. Why waste your time and money, and that of your opponent(s) if you aren't going to play? You'd be much better off staying at home.

Daemon primarchs are fine. Shoot them with lascannons, like you would any other model that's too big to hide anywhere. Repeat if required. Guilliman is a much bigger problem, ironically because he's smaller than his daemonic brothers. This means he tends not to receive sufficient lascannon shots to his face.

I do have a bit of an issue with Forgeworld's really big Lords of War, like the warhound. This is because I think FW doesn't write good rules (or even rules that work at all, in many cases), and this effect is magnified on a 1500 point model. This could be fixed if Forgeworld did write good rules, or if their broken crap was banned from competitive events.

Mandragola wrote:

I do have a bit of an issue with Forgeworld's really big Lords of War, like the warhound. This is because I think FW doesn't write good rules (or even rules that work at all, in many cases), and this effect is magnified on a 1500 point model. This could be fixed if Forgeworld did write good rules, or if their broken crap was banned from competitive events.

Just gonna mention: Warhounds suck. Don't be scared of Warhounds.

Audustum wrote:
So I'm actually going to a tournament where I expect to see multiple Morty/Mag teams (about 60 people). Fortunately, it's a 2v2 tournament (1k each player) so we should have a bit more flexibility. It seems Psyker and Mortal Wound spam is the answer so far which is nice because I was considering playing Grey Knights.

I'm surprised on the LoW hate. We're unrestricted in my area. Your opponents' are likely bringing tournament or cheese lists so be ready to deal with it or be prepared to lose (which is fine too, we don't always have to win to have fun).

I personally restrict myself to 1 LoW in an army unless I'm playing a full-blown Apocalypse. Superheavies aren't as OP as they were back in 7th, if you're banning LoWs in 2k games you should also ban Conscripts and similar OP stuff. Hell, I'll put it even stronger, if you don't allow me to bring Mortarion or my Knight in a 2k game I probably wouldn't even bother to play at all. I'm not advocating cheese lists but I didn't buy those models to collect dust on my shelf.

Besides all that, putting 2 LoW's in a 2k list is quite counterable.

Astra have no trouble blowing anything <Chaos> off the table. The firepower is already the most points efficient in the game, and then you add Vengeance for Cadia and Relic of Lost Cadia on top and its a blowout.

Audustum wrote:
So I'm actually going to a tournament where I expect to see multiple Morty/Mag teams (about 60 people). Fortunately, it's a 2v2 tournament (1k each player) so we should have a bit more flexibility. It seems Psyker and Mortal Wound spam is the answer so far which is nice because I was considering playing Grey Knights.

I'm surprised on the LoW hate. We're unrestricted in my area. Your opponents' are likely bringing tournament or cheese lists so be ready to deal with it or be prepared to lose (which is fine too, we don't always have to win to have fun).

No no no, Mortal Wound spam is NOT the answer. Magnus is the best Mortal Wound Spammer in the game and even he can't kill himself with it. In fact he's more likely to kill another Magnus with his staff in melee combat. Not to mention psykers like Magnus and Mortarion can try to deny your powers, negating more than half of the Smites used against them.

Volume of fire is how you kill them. Imperial Guard are the scariest army for me to go up against because they fire 80 billion times at Magnus. Sure, they only wound on 6 but with that many shots it's plenty of wounds. Magnus will always fail his save on a 2, or also on a 3 if he isn't buffed. Tank weapons and super heavies that fire seventy-five lascannons can blow through his defense just once for high damage, especially if you command reroll the damage. Primaris Space Marines can overcharge and nuke him with 2 dmg shots, normal Space Marines can spam autocannons and missile launchers at him, Death Guard can hit him a million times with mortal wounds and plague weapons, Khorne Berzerkers and Noise Marines can deal a lot of damage to him, Obliterators can literally solo kill him especially if you Death Hex him first, and AdMech just keeps nuking him with gunline spam that hits and wounds all the time seemingly.

Spam enough shots at him and Magnus will die. I even had a game where I finished him using Cultists when he had 3 wounds left. Throw your entire army at him and he will drop, ending the force multiplier effect and psyker benefits he brings.

Magnus is objectively easier to kill than Mortarion. If you can shoot Mortarion, you can shoot Magnus.

5 predators and killshot. Ez

Playing against both of them sounds miserable. Not even if you can kill them, how boring.

i wouldnt play them

And yet I bet you guys would bring a Knight in 7th edition or some other super heavy in this one. Try using Magnus or Mortarion and watch your opponent wipe the floor with them to learn how brittle they actually are. Fearsome and powerful for sure! Like deep striking Obliterators. But similarly simple to wipe off the field.

Pretty soon all the factions will have some sort of big centerpiece model in their lists. Primaris just got theirs, a mean super heavy tank that looks like a mobile fortress.

Boy oh boy! I reckon ol Maggie is purdy darn good. I played a 2v2 tourney against him. I tried to troll as best I could with no FW allowed and highlander format. Brought a stompa! We (Orks and Crons) faced Maggie (with 500pts of summoning) and Orks.

It was an unusual book mission. Some Psychic maelstrom or something. Maggie periled then went super nova. Stompa dead at the top of T1.

A little un fun.

Playing Guard use a Dominus Bombard to kill Morty

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Magnus is objectively easier to kill than Mortarion. If you can shoot Mortarion, you can shoot Magnus.

Doesn't Magnus have some insane re-roll invul save with a psychic buff? No way I'm getting first turn with mostly infantry.

 crimsondave wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Magnus is objectively easier to kill than Mortarion. If you can shoot Mortarion, you can shoot Magnus.

Doesn't Magnus have some insane re-roll invul save with a psychic buff? No way I'm getting first turn with mostly infantry.

Magnus has a 4+ invuln. The psychic buff makes it 3+. He has an aura that rerolls invuln saves of 1. The best he can get is a 3+ rerolling 1s which still fails on a 2 or a double 1.

Imperial Guard are mostly infantry and have little problem landing wounds on Magnus because when you're saving 40 times you're going to roll a few 2s.

In theory, it only takes 6 successful smites to remove him if you're Grey Knights. Mind you, he can deny the first 3 you attempt each turn, but still doable. The trick is positioning your guys such that Mags is the closest visible enemy to satisfy smite's targeting requirements.

Invuln saves only work if you actually get to roll against them, after all...

Would it be allowed to bring both these primarchs to tournaments?

 Arkaine wrote:

 crimsondave wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Magnus is objectively easier to kill than Mortarion. If you can shoot Mortarion, you can shoot Magnus.

Doesn't Magnus have some insane re-roll invul save with a psychic buff? No way I'm getting first turn with mostly infantry.

Magnus has a 4+ invuln. The psychic buff makes it 3+. He has an aura that rerolls invuln saves of 1. The best he can get is a 3+ rerolling 1s which still fails on a 2 or a double 1.

Imperial Guard are mostly infantry and have little problem landing wounds on Magnus because when you're saving 40 times you're going to roll a few 2s.

That's why I'm more concerned with Magnus. With my 25-30 drops, he's going first. With the type lists I like running, counting on a 1/5.5 (I guessed, you don't have to check the math) chance of wounding is pretty tough.

I don't like playing cheese ball stuff, but I guess turn about is fair play. I have dozens of Scions and 4 TPs I wasn't planning on playing anytime soon.

Ad Mech Kastalen Robots with Wrath of Mars deletes Magnus or Morty in a single turn.