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I have been playing matches at my store where there is virtually no way of removing an enemy off an offidian archway or numinous occulum via mellee. They and all tournaments use base to base and ONLY base to base measuring (baddice http://baddice.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/bloodandglory2017_AoS_Championships.pdf ). So for example; All the mighty lords and all their bloodreavers, couldn't hit pink horrors on top of an archway. Cant move close enough, can't charge them, cannot close combat them, PERIOD. So you need some sort of ranged to take that on. It means that in a vacuum, a fight between equal points one unit versus another... the ranged unit that gets on top of some second story terrain WILL win and cant even be touched if the other unit is only melee. Seems really stupid to me that 20 pink horrors in a sea of only melee units WILL still win. No one can climb up there because there is no space to fit a base either... large units that under model to model measuring could hit a target on a balcony, cannot at the store or these tournaments... That seems really against the spirit and intent of the game. As it stands its a "houserule" that everyone just uses (i am not against it entirely... i dont want people piling their bases on mine and modeling to abuse this happens too. So its well and good to stop those shenanigans... but it really hurts big models that are assembled exactly as depicted on box...). Next I want to talk about an errata GW put out in their attempt to deal with this. https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_rules_en.pdf under movement section;

" Q: Please clarify when/if it is necessary to count vertical
movement as part of the distance a model moves, especially with
regard to climbing scenic walls. If the height of the wall exceeds
a model’s movement, is the wall unclimbable, or can it be
climbed over multiple turns? Can a model run up the wall?
A: The vertical distance needed to climb up and down
a wall counts as part of the distance a model is able
to move. This may require a model to spend several
turns climbing an especially high wall (you will need to
remember how far it has climbed each turn). Models
can run while climbing a wall. Note that models which
can fly ignore scenery (and other models) as they move,
and therefore the vertical distance is not included when
working out how far they have moved.
Q: A model cannot move through scenery but can move across
it or climb it (unless it is stated otherwise on the scenery
warscroll, I presume). Are my Drakespawn Chariots allowed
to climb a Fortress Wall or move down from a Witchfate Tor or
Fortified Manor?
A: For simplicity and ease of play, the core game rules
allow any model to climb any piece of scenery. If you
wish, you may want to say that models are only allowed to
move to places that they could reach ‘in real life’, but you
will need to apply a certain amount of common sense
and discretion in order to make such a rule work well.
Q: Are models/units allowed to ‘climb up’ trees on the Citadel
Wood bases?
A: Yes. For simplicity and ease of play, models are
allowed to climb up and down any type of scenery "

So when I tried to say that I COULD in fact charge a unit on a wall via this errata, I was met with only critisism and denied. Told that it ONLY affects move in movement phase (although its called a "charge MOVE") (in essence they were saying charge move is a "move" only when it works for them...) Whole store was doing this, manager told me I could not win unless i still had shooting left... Now according to Baddice, they use EVERY errata... So I would think it would be that models CAN charge terrain like this, just the height of said terrain would be added to the charge distance... Everyone at the store tells me I am wrong and that the errata makes no sense so they wont use it...

So the question is: Who is doing this right?

I havent actually been to a tournament to know for sure... I do think that simply having high ground should just make you invincible to melee that seems wrong and unbalanced. If its true though... why not run a Tzeentch daemon list and just abuse the hell out off the ruling? Fill every conceivable second floor terrain with pink horrors (which will be impossible to remove off an objective if ones there by simply splitting, makeing you waste several units dedicating firepower at one or three turns minimum if you only have one unit shooting them.) With ranged superiority, one could easily focus fire out all enemy ranged threats and then just laugh after thats done "nah nah you cant touch me now, nah nah". Seems like a stupid annoying way to play but hey, abuse it if its true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone who has been to a tournament and dealt with this, please tell me whats correct. Can i charge the unit and refer to this errata, or can I simply not touch the unit in melee? If I can, i need something to back my argument up (more so than showing them the errata as that didn't work for them)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Felt gakky to play against someone . I ran blades of khorne with no ranged except a slaughterpriests ability (opponent killed both first, knowing slaughterpriests can pull units out of place). We played a few more turns. I get up to his objective only to realize I actually cant do anything at all and should have conceded turn one because all along I had no hope of touching the unit defending the objective... Felt really stupid and gakky. I feel bad for khorne players. But hey feth us for "not building a balanced list".

You have it right. The people trying to make their models unattackable in melee are being TFG. You have RAW and a FAQ literally stating things in your favor. If they insist that a 'move' only applies during the movement phase then feel free to move your units out of coherency during charges and pile in, since a unit only needs to finish a move in coherency and obviously those don't count.

Honestly, that someone is even trying to that is pathetic. If push comes to shove, use the 4+ rule, that way you have at least a 50% chance of being able to get in melee.

Move all your models to the other side of the archway. Now he doesn't have LoS and has to either move away from the second floor, or stand their impotently. Make sure to describe it this way as any player who wants to interpret the rules this way will likely have heard the word "impotent" a time or two and it'll likely hit a little close to home.

I'll agree in that all rules support your way of doing it.
They are simply interpreting the rules to best suit them (even though the rules clearly state how this works)

I would suggest some form of ranged however.
Running into a balewind vortex will be a royal pain as you literally canny fight them in combat atall.
Only option is to try and avoid a caster that now has improved range.

Ally in an a wizard and reserve 100 points for your own vortex. Have him arcane bolt the dude on the enemy vortex every turn. If they try to nuke your wizard it means the Slaughterpriests live long enough to blood bind, if they nuke the Slaughterpriests then the wizard nukes them. A crude option and not totally effective but it helps.

Do they also limit flying models to engage? Seems ridiculous if a flying creature would not be able to charge.Otherwhise consider Running a couple of thirsters at a tournament with this kind of rules...

While on a vortex nothing may charge him period.

 auticus wrote:
While on a vortex nothing may charge him period.

I think he's talking about the balcony in regards to flying models charging.

Whoops! My bad.

 minisnatcher wrote:
Do they also limit flying models to engage? Seems ridiculous if a flying creature would not be able to charge.Otherwhise consider Running a couple of thirsters at a tournament with this kind of rules...

Yes. Unless they have room to fit up there with the enemy models. A flying unit does have some chance but only if there is enough space for it. Otherwise no, doesn't matter if its archaon and they are around dhorgar's groin. If the base isn't within half an inch end of charge, he on his flying mount cannot fight. Convincing someone of the moving on walls errata is even harder with a base of his size...

Well you COULD put the edge of his base on the ledge and the bottom of his base on the ground

But yeah they are full of crap.

This is finding a loophole in a houserule, seems quite lame TFG stuff if you try to win on that...

As you can base how you want in this game, you could always pull a massive 12" tower base size (Height) and be done with it. They can measure from that point instead. MAke a base especially for the occasion to fit models on when you face TFG.

Myself, I would not attend a tournament with such lame house ruling more then once. This kind of stuff is toxic to a player base imho. I would probably even stay away from the hosting club/store for all eternity if a tournament judge agreed with your opponent.