Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all, maybe this has been talked about already, but does anyone have experience using Reivers? I am planning a space marine force myself and just bought a 5 man box, contemplating a second. How have they fared for people?

I really like the idea of using them to distract from the rest of your forces using the bolt carbines and grav-chutes, just drop them down in a ruin and wipe heavy weapons squad or something, if they get killed then your opponent probably gave them a fair amount of attention, if they survive they can charge something next turn and likely do some damage.

What do you all think?

They're kinda good with carbines, imo. Capping and harrassing. Also, taking them without grav or grapple gives you a 90pt primaris unit, with decent bolters, and close range debuffs, if that's your kinda thing! All in all, they really suffer from having no weapon options that deliver -AP, which restricts their role something fierce.

They are worthless. Ive tried them in any config you can imagine.

8th is a shooting game and their carbines don't pull weight needed to be useful. You wont be killing any heavy weapon squads and such as they will also be in cover, so its a "who rolls more 1s " fest. Opponent wont care, as they know Reivers suck.

Tried them also with close combat, transport and chaplain and they killed a single guy, because of their weapons being crap. No AP in melee makes them worthless again.

They look cool, but after those games and the 0 options they have to be useful, they wont see play ever.

Their weapons not having any AP value, I really struggle to see any use for them. They're supposed to be close combat specialists but the only thing they could really kill with any considerable efficiency is cultists and little tiny tyranid bugs. Even then they don't do so well at that because their attacks are only strength 4.

I just don't understand Reivers. Hopefully chapter approved will fix them. They aren't good objective cappers because they aren't troops.

 walkiflalka wrote:
Hi all, maybe this has been talked about already, but does anyone have experience using Reivers? I am planning a space marine force myself and just bought a 5 man box, contemplating a second. How have they fared for people?

I really like the idea of using them to distract from the rest of your forces using the bolt carbines and grav-chutes, just drop them down in a ruin and wipe heavy weapons squad or something, if they get killed then your opponent probably gave them a fair amount of attention, if they survive they can charge something next turn and likely do some damage.

What do you all think?

I haven't tried them yet, but with bolt carbines they're cheaper (by 3 points) than intercessors with auto-bolt rifles. So there's that. They're not really a dedicated CC unit, no matter what GW thinks, they're just another all rounder space marine unit. Which Space Marines don't need more of. They're really just intercessors with a different deployment option and a cc upgrade option.

They do look pretty kick ass though, so I'll definetly pick up a kit eventually to go with my other primaris. They really needed an option for meltabombs or something.

I definitely hear the criticisms and I'm a bit worried myself, having bought some simply because they look cool. However, I am hopeful that they will be useful, if you drop them on top of a building and take advantage of their 24'' range they might make a good distraction, especially against armies like guard or elder where their bolters will actually kill stuff. In cover they have a 2+ and 2 wounds so anything short of supercharged plasma or anti-tank weapons should have trouble removing them, and if they do use those weapons on them they have distracted your opponent.

That said, I really think all the primaris squads should have had special weapon options, even if they were just regular melta, plasma, flamer type weapons. Or combi-weapon sergeants. To me the primaris options are actually looking quite lacking, and 2 wounds doesn't seem very impressive in 8th.

IMO fixed reivers would be they get the combat blade AND the bolter and pistol, and the blade does -1 rend. AND they can buy a power sword on the sergeant, he can take melta bombs and one can take a special weapon or melee weapon. To me THAT would be an amazing squad without being broken.

Actually, their Heavy Bolt Pistols and Krak grenades both have -1 AP.

In my experience, All the Primaris infantry did okay with Ork Boys in melee. Reivers did a little better. The best my Inceptors ever performed was behind the gunline. The gunline Fell Back, and the Inceptors slaughtered the Boys.

If Reivers had 2 HB Pistols and 2 Combat Knives, then I think they could really be interesting. If they had access to an Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, they could be game changing.

Deep Strike Reivers are a 1 Turn speed bump.

True, they do have krak grenades. I find the -1 on the pistol to be odd if you aren't running them with blades, as the -1 is enough to tempt you to fire the pistols at MEQ or something but I still would wager that the bolters are better. I think if they could take an auxiliary grenade launcher they could actually perform their CC support role well, and if they had the option of better cc weapons as well they would be great.

That being said they aren't crazy expensive and running 10 might not be completely foolish. What do people think of running two squads of 5 deep striking behind enemy lines with a jump pack chaplain? They could potentially deep strike out of sight then charge the next turn, or they could simply provide a ranged distraction that can defend itself in cc.

Thoughts? Might be too much of a point sink for what they do, but then again 10 of them is not much more than 3 inceptors. Less depending on loadout.

I’m thinking of running 5 with carbines and chutes, or 8 in a repulsor with knives as an escort for my characters.

They aren’t amazing and I’m not sure they have any real use. The best thing about them might be their stun grenades, denying overwatch and letting other units charge stuff safely.

I play imperial fists so my carbine guys will ignore cover, making them marginally less forgettable.

They're amazing vs mellee-oriented opponents. Infiltrate behind enemy lines and kill all the scoring units. This will force the opponent to either split his forces or not get backline points at all.

 koooaei wrote:
They're amazing vs mellee-oriented opponents. Infiltrate behind enemy lines and kill all the scoring units. This will force the opponent to either split his forces or not get backline points at all.

Do they have killing potential? Not so much.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
They're amazing vs mellee-oriented opponents. Infiltrate behind enemy lines and kill all the scoring units. This will force the opponent to either split his forces or not get backline points at all.

Do they have killing potential? Not so much.

Their killing potential is pretty weak, yes. They clearly need access to melta bombs, or something like them.

They are very good at killing off other people's troops and scoring units. The kind of small units that people often leave at the back holding objectives are very vulnerable to primaris guys turning up and murdering them. A 5 man unit will have 11 or 16 attacks, plus a bit of shooting, which is far from trivial for something like a unit of sniper scouts or a heavy weapon squad to deal with.

There's also a great deal of value to having any kind of unit that has deep strike in your army. I didn't have that at the GT heat just gone and it would have been very useful. Managed to qualify anyway, just. Threatening your opponent's back-field even a little bit gives them something to worry about, which can cause them to make mistakes.

Overall I think that a unit with grav chutes and carbines is worth its price. It's an asset that should well be considered, but not an auto-pick and not straightforward to use.

The other thing I'm considering is putting 8 in a repulsor to go with my characters. Their job would be mainly to tie things up and make a nuisance of themselves, rather than to kill all that much. Chucking stun grenades around can cause people a lot of grief and tying up gunline units can win games.

Ive been using a unit of 6 with knives and grav chutes. Like everything in the marine arsenal, they can be awesome or completely useless depending on the task you give them.

I generally try to drop them on turn 1 within line of sight of a smaller T3 infantry unit (10+ cultists/guardsman unit, 5 man sisters unit etc) but out of sight of everything else if possible. 6 shots hitting on 3's wounding on 3's, at -1 is usually enough to strip a few wounds and make overwatch ineffective, if you make the charge great; 19 attacks from such a small unit will likely do some good damage.
The key thing is keeping them enough out of LOS that the opponent feels they have to move units to fire on them.... which is great. Also, for their points, they will without a doubt take more fire than they are really worth just because they are in the other board half.

Just dont go treating them like berzerkers or terminators- they are specifically aimed at removing infantry and thats about it

I’ve been planning on 3 5-man squads with knives and grapnels or gravchutes, in a Salamander Detachment, while the rest of my army is in an Ultramarines Detachment. The Reivers with get some re-rolls from the Sal CT while everyone else gets buffs from Big Bobby G.

duWhee wrote:
I’ve been planning on 3 5-man squads with knives and grapnels or gravchutes, in a Salamander Detachment, while the rest of my army is in an Ultramarines Detachment. The Reivers with get some re-rolls from the Sal CT while everyone else gets buffs from Big Bobby G.

Salamanders are not the chapter I'd pick for reivers. They have quite a lot of low-power attacks, which are not optimal for a single reroll.
Instead I'd actually go white scars. The ability to tie units in cc is extremely valuable against gunlines. Reivers can stun a unit so it loses overwatch, charge it, then consolidate into multiple others. It's very effective against parking lots.

That said, I think three squads is pretty excessive. Reivers aren't that killy, and something will be required to actually make the bad guys die.

I would agree that Salamanders chapter tactics aren't the best for them, however, I'm going to be running Salamanders anyway and it's not a bad chapter tactic. It also helps their stun grenades hit, and it really helps make a krak grenade pretty effective, even against a high toughness tank, if they ever get to use one.

What does everyone think of using them in conjunction with a storm talon? First turn, have supersonic storm talon zoom up to their back field, drop the reivers in cover nearby, blast some grunts, and have fun watching your opponent struggle with target priority next turn. They will likely shoot at the storm talon and the odds of your reivers surviving to get into CC would be pretty high I would think. Also the storm talon can go into hover next turn, not move and hit a tank on 2+ with lascannons. At the very least it will force your opponent to devote a fair amount of attention to their back field while you move up the bulk of your force.

I think this would pair well with a whirlwind, allied guard mortars, or any other unit that could still give them fire support from across the battlefield.

A great use of a stormtalon is charging shooty units like tanks on turn one. Anything without the fly keyword (and some superheavies and stuff) will then lose its shot in the following turn.

For best results, charge one tank and consolidate so you engage at least one more of them. I've even once managed it so that the enemy tank couldn't fall back, meaning they couldn't shoot my plane as it was locked in cc. Then in my turn it flew off. I was ready to charge in with my repulsor to replace it, when my opponent conceded - in turn two.

This should help to take the heat off your reivers. And they can pin other units, while occasionally hurting them a bit.

I'm honestly not a fan of Carbines because I can get Intercessors to do the same thing but without the Deep Strike.

I see them as an expensive alternative to CCW Scouts (though of course the Deep strike and infiltration are gonna be different in play) and definitely think they should be used as such. Have them bully a unit or use them as a meat shield. Get Black Templars for a 48% chance to hit the enemy with a charge.

Hope this isn’t too thread necromancyish, but I found this thread useful and wanted to contribute after I’d had a chance to try the unit.

I built a unit of five reivers because I wanted the shock grenades to use with my Ravenguard army. Using SftS on reivers and vanguard vets, I figured they could negate overwatch for my assaulty vanguards on alphastrikes.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the reivers. They’re too slow to keep up with jumppack vets and characters in an alpha assault, and they don’t have enough damage output to be a threat when the jumpers leave them behind. Against opponents who fly (I played them against suit spam Tau and mech DE) they can’t pin anything, can’t catch anything in CC.

They got the drop on a commander suit, put a scratch on his paint, and then he jumped away, and they were too slow to get back in the game. They struggled to finish off one minsize DE warrior unit (after a strafing run left only the sergeant, he spent the rest of the game chasing the last kabbalite warrior around the backfield).

Overwatch turned out to be not a problem with the RG warlord trait and a couple of stormtalons to negate it. I thought shock grenades would make the difference, but not so much.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of Carbines because I can get Intercessors to do the same thing but without the Deep Strike.

I see them as an expensive alternative to CCW Scouts (though of course the Deep strike and infiltration are gonna be different in play) and definitely think they should be used as such. Have them bully a unit or use them as a meat shield. Get Black Templars for a 48% chance to hit the enemy with a charge.

Reivers with carbines are identical but two points cheaper. Just lose objective secured really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
Hope this isn’t too thread necromancyish, but I found this thread useful and wanted to contribute after I’d had a chance to try the unit.

I built a unit of five reivers because I wanted the shock grenades to use with my Ravenguard army. Using SftS on reivers and vanguard vets, I figured they could negate overwatch for my assaulty vanguards on alphastrikes.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the reivers. They’re too slow to keep up with jumppack vets and characters in an alpha assault, and they don’t have enough damage output to be a threat when the jumpers leave them behind. Against opponents who fly (I played them against suit spam Tau and mech DE) they can’t pin anything, can’t catch anything in CC.

They got the drop on a commander suit, put a scratch on his paint, and then he jumped away, and they were too slow to get back in the game. They struggled to finish off one minsize DE warrior unit (after a strafing run left only the sergeant, he spent the rest of the game chasing the last kabbalite warrior around the backfield).

Overwatch turned out to be not a problem with the RG warlord trait and a couple of stormtalons to negate it. I thought shock grenades would make the difference, but not so much.

Yeah I don’t have any reivers, but they really so lack oomph. Sarge should at least get a power sword option imo.

The lack of access to heavy, power or heavy weapons really hurts Primaris in all of their units. I know, is done this way so they don't superseed the normal marines ones, but still...

I used them as part of my Raven Guard force.

I tried to use them as killy units, which obviously was a mistake.
After a bit I started using them to get within 3" of things that would make a nuisance of themselves like heavy weapon models, elite units with high LD, etc.

Making a unit of, say, Crisis Suits or Stealth Suits drop a point of LD before having to take a morale test was a big help.

 argonak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of Carbines because I can get Intercessors to do the same thing but without the Deep Strike.

I see them as an expensive alternative to CCW Scouts (though of course the Deep strike and infiltration are gonna be different in play) and definitely think they should be used as such. Have them bully a unit or use them as a meat shield. Get Black Templars for a 48% chance to hit the enemy with a charge.

Reivers with carbines are identical but two points cheaper. Just lose objective secured really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
Hope this isn’t too thread necromancyish, but I found this thread useful and wanted to contribute after I’d had a chance to try the unit.

I built a unit of five reivers because I wanted the shock grenades to use with my Ravenguard army. Using SftS on reivers and vanguard vets, I figured they could negate overwatch for my assaulty vanguards on alphastrikes.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the reivers. They’re too slow to keep up with jumppack vets and characters in an alpha assault, and they don’t have enough damage output to be a threat when the jumpers leave them behind. Against opponents who fly (I played them against suit spam Tau and mech DE) they can’t pin anything, can’t catch anything in CC.

They got the drop on a commander suit, put a scratch on his paint, and then he jumped away, and they were too slow to get back in the game. They struggled to finish off one minsize DE warrior unit (after a strafing run left only the sergeant, he spent the rest of the game chasing the last kabbalite warrior around the backfield).

Overwatch turned out to be not a problem with the RG warlord trait and a couple of stormtalons to negate it. I thought shock grenades would make the difference, but not so much.

Yeah I don’t have any reivers, but they really so lack oomph. Sarge should at least get a power sword option imo.

While correct, I don't think the offense of an Assault 2 Bolter is worth -2 points to lose Objective Secured, which is a rare occasion I WANT the rule.

Yeah, I haven't had a chance to use them yet, and I'm definitely thinking that they will be used for tactical reasons not for killing, primarily. I'm thinking the best option is the deep strike and carbine route. Deep strike onto an objective, or to deny some kind of objective, potentially max range away from an enemy target, and harass lightly armoured troops with bolters, try to charge things like devastators. They can certainly remove heavy weapons teams well against guard. Other than that I don't see them killing a ton. That said, these guys should be tough to shift in cover, and if they dedicate heavy weapons to removing them then they are proving a distraction and are probably useful tacticaly that game via taking pressure of everything else.

I still have hope that they have their uses, but they really, really should have a sergeant with access to the sergeant equipment list IMO, this would fix them. Or if the unit could buy 1-2 power swords in addition to whatever else.

I definitely agree that Reivers would be better if they could give their Sergeants proper weapons. In fact I think this is a weakness across the Primaris range, perhaps affecting the captain worst of all.

This approach of only giving you options that the model comes with is very limiting. It means most relics aren't available to Primaris guys. Meanwhile would anyone seriously consider giving their hellblaster sergeant a plasma pistol?

I agree with the above use of deep striking carbine reivers. I think that gives you a cheap, useful unit that will often come in handy for taking objectives and bullying units like Eldar rangers and SM scouts (or at least, my cover-ignoring ones will be useful for that).

One option that I am considering is putting ~8 of them in a repulsor with my captain and librarian. Their job would be to chop up conscripts if necessary, but more often to tie up other uints in cc. Stun grenades to stop things from firing overwatch should be a really big help against things like tank companies. The reivers will then hopefully be able to tie up a few of them in combat.

It would be nice if they could actually hurt the tanks in cc but, failing that, preventing them from shooting is a start.

Mandragola wrote:
I definitely agree that Reivers would be better if they could give their Sergeants proper weapons. In fact I think this is a weakness across the Primaris range, perhaps affecting the captain worst of all.

This approach of only giving you options that the model comes with is very limiting. It means most relics aren't available to Primaris guys. Meanwhile would anyone seriously consider giving their hellblaster sergeant a plasma pistol?

I agree with the above use of deep striking carbine reivers. I think that gives you a cheap, useful unit that will often come in handy for taking objectives and bullying units like Eldar rangers and SM scouts (or at least, my cover-ignoring ones will be useful for that).

One option that I am considering is putting ~8 of them in a repulsor with my captain and librarian. Their job would be to chop up conscripts if necessary, but more often to tie up other uints in cc. Stun grenades to stop things from firing overwatch should be a really big help against things like tank companies. The reivers will then hopefully be able to tie up a few of them in combat.

It would be nice if they could actually hurt the tanks in cc but, failing that, preventing them from shooting is a start.

Can't use the stun grenade against vehicles.

Well, at the very least if you know a Cities of Death game is coming (or a game in some sort of crazy multi-level complex like the oil rig table they showed for shadow wars back then), you can count on their vertical movement to really make a difference there.

Lemondish wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I definitely agree that Reivers would be better if they could give their Sergeants proper weapons. In fact I think this is a weakness across the Primaris range, perhaps affecting the captain worst of all.

This approach of only giving you options that the model comes with is very limiting. It means most relics aren't available to Primaris guys. Meanwhile would anyone seriously consider giving their hellblaster sergeant a plasma pistol?

I agree with the above use of deep striking carbine reivers. I think that gives you a cheap, useful unit that will often come in handy for taking objectives and bullying units like Eldar rangers and SM scouts (or at least, my cover-ignoring ones will be useful for that).

One option that I am considering is putting ~8 of them in a repulsor with my captain and librarian. Their job would be to chop up conscripts if necessary, but more often to tie up other uints in cc. Stun grenades to stop things from firing overwatch should be a really big help against things like tank companies. The reivers will then hopefully be able to tie up a few of them in combat.

It would be nice if they could actually hurt the tanks in cc but, failing that, preventing them from shooting is a start.

Can't use the stun grenade against vehicles.

Yeah I just spotted that myself. That makes them a hell of a lot less good. I played against a dark angels player last night, using my reivers for the first time. Was all ready to throw a stun grenade at a bike squad when I noticed it wouldn’t do anything. Now having a rethink!