Craftworld Wraiths

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**angelrei**

From what a friends told me wraithguard and blades will becoming T6 and wraithlords T8, so will this mean anyone running something like a warithost like from 7th will be hated again and have no friends? (baring in mind thats what my friend always told me when I used to ask him if I started eldar and wanted to start with a wraithhost back in 7th would always tell me

)

**fresus**

It's too early to tell, we need to get more info on the codex. Apparently the point cost remains the same, and the Iyanden relic could work well with wraithblades.
But we don't know what the wave serpent will look like; and wraithguards/wraithblades need them. There's also probably two more psychic powers we don't know about.
From the things we've seen so far, wraithblades and wraithlords are a bit better, but still not that great. Wraithguards are a bit better, but they would still benefit more from going Ynnari than from the Iyanden attribute/relic.

**Kdash**

I agree, its to hard to tell right now simply because each wraith unit is still a massive points investment.

You can still run a wraith list, and it'll now be stronger naturally with the toughness buff, relics, powers, stratagems and craftworld abilities, but you're still only going to be running 20 models.

**Arachnofiend**

Wraithguard are stronger against lasguns than they were before, wraithlords are stronger against plasma... pretty significant bumps up in durability, though it doesn't immediately jump out as being super OP or anything.

**AaronWilson**

There are some pretty big changes - If you're S4 you can still wound T8. Infact if you're S5 you now only need a 5+ to wound T8.

Due to the changes to the way wounding works, Wraithknight being T8 and Wraithguard being T6 isn't nearly as bad as it was.

**angelrei**

Well most of my eldar army consists of Wraithguard and blades, two lords, spiritseer and wraith Knight only becuase they looked cool. So looking forward to see what we get in the end and if I should be looking forward to be hated or frinedless or whatever like wraith host was in 7th and from what I hear IG this edition.

**hobojebus**

Well bolters will still wound on 5+ it only really effects guard players, it'll make weapons under str 12 need a 3+ but really its not that big of a change.

However I think wraith knights may make a comeback as you need to put 17 wounds on them to make them degrade the first time.

But really these alone won't make you TFG, we just have to hope they don't over buff eldar in general.

**Cpt. Icanus**

Going up in toughness is a big deal for both, as stated Lords are close to immune against bolters and most standard melee attacks, also 4+ for melta, charged plasma and missiles, while Guard get mowed down less from assault cannons. Those might be specific things, but both are widespread, so i think it helps a lot without breaking them.

**Elbows**

It's a needed bump for the cost. The way wounding works now, the Tough 5 and Tough 7 aren't quite as "tough" as they used to be. They're still slow, and have 8-12" range (outside of Wraithlords of course) so should be easy to avoid/handle. They definitely got better, but needed some help.

**craftworld_uk**

Posting the source here so everyone knows it's a real thing...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/15/coming-soon-a-new-codex-for-the-craftworlds/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/16/craftworld-focus-iyanden-oct-16gw-homepage-post-3/

The Psytronome looks interesting for doubling Wraithblades' offensive power.

**Dionysodorus**

Probably the only ones worth being concerned about are scytheguard. The others were definitely underperforming in the index. D-cannon Wraithguard suffer from very low damage output for their cost, Wraithblades are a slow CC unit, and Wraithlords were fairly fragile and forced to pay for a melee loadout. And it's not like T5 to T6 is that big of a deal; it's nice for heavy bolters and assault cannons but does nothing for lascannons, which are what you really wanted to be using against Wraithguard anyway.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Wraithhost was more hated for the cheap D-weapon spam in 7th. Since they're gone now (the D-strength stat), it's much less of a problem, especially since Wraithlords and Wraithguard/Wraithblade units were traditionally T8/T6 anyways.

It will make them strong, but not OP, which is good.

**wuestenfux**

It seems I need to order the new codex asap. Iyanden was always cool. Now they could become more than this.

**Imateria**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Wraithhost was more hated for the cheap D-weapon spam in 7th. Since they're gone now (the D-strength stat), it's much less of a problem, especially since Wraithlords and Wraithguard/Wraithblade units were traditionally T8/T6 anyways.

It will make them strong, but not OP, which is good.

I never understood the hate on the Wraith Host in 7th, sure it had lots of D but only the Wraithknight was a real problem, Wraithguard were a suicide unit that could easily be wiped before they did anything. There's a good reason why it was the Scatpacks that people feared and not the massed D.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I never did either but it's like the panick over Guard; people saw 30-point D-weapons and immediately declared the end of the world.

**Ruin**

"Wraithlords are becoming T8"

Did we slip back in time to 1999 or something?

**techsoldaten**

TBH I think Wraithlords and Wraithknights are a little too easy to kill in this edition. The toughness bump may help, but I feel like they need more.

Looking forward to seeing other command benefits, but it sounds like Iyanden is the subfaction for wraith-y models. The Wraithknight, in particular, regularly goes down to Lascannons turn one in the games where I face one.

**Vaktathi**

Theyre just being bumped back up to what Toughness they were previously it appears, nothing huge there, wont make them broken or anything. Particularly now that, as noted, the 7E D weapon insanity is gone.

**Xenomancers**

They need an invo save obviously.

**Galef**

I wonder if WKs got a T bump as well, but it hasn't been mentioned yet. T9 would certainly help against Lascannons. S9 would go form 3+ to wound to 4+, anything S8 would go from 4+ to 5+

One can dream. I'd be happy with an 80-100 point drop though and nothing else, especially with the Ulthwe attribute or the Alaitoc (if it turns out to be -1 to be hit).

**Niiru**

Wraithguard have gone from being good to still being good, just slightly tougher. No big deal either way there.

Wraithblades are now also a bit tougher, and the stratagem gives them a burst of suicide power for a turn, which could be useful. Slight buff, makes them a choice vs D-Scythes now at least.

Wraithlords are now also a bit tougher, but still not as good as imperial dreadnoughts, and still more expensive than they should be. As Iyanden their statline holds on a bit better though. A welcome buff, but still worse than dreadnoughts for the same points which is just blatent favourtism.

Wraithknights are still a complete waste of points. But we haven't actually seen any changes for them yet (if they get any). Even with the Iyanden non-degrading statlines, they're still much worse than an Imperial Knight for the same points.

So yeh, no reason not to run Wraiths right now, as they are far from overpowered. Eldar are looking to be pretty much mid-low tier this edition, with all the top half of the tier lists taken up with Imperium, Marines, Imperial Marines, Heretic Marines, and Imperium Heretics.

Don't know why they did such a copy-paste job on the Eldar codex so far. It's basically the Space Marine codex, but with "Space Marine" tip-exed out and "Eldar" written in in crayon. Except that they also added 20% to all the points costs.

**Bremon**

...we’ve seen what; 2 stratagems, 2 faction traits, a pie of psychic powers and that the autarch has a captain aura? Let’s not flip the table and set the book on fire just yet. We’ll see what the shattered remnants of my first army gets tomorrow, go Biel-Tan, go!

**Galef**

I don't mind copy-paste traits. There is still a variety of traits per faction and if each faction has similar traits, we are closer to fair.
What bothers me is when the traits do not align with pre-established lore.

Iyanden, for example, is the Wraith-construct CW. Yet out of the 2 traits we have seen so far, Ulthwe is actually more appealing for Wraith units.

**pm713**

I find it more odd that Black Guardians shoot better because they're better trained a bit of the time. Or they can activate a deploy able shield for cover but then it breaks or something. Plus it's just boring when everyone has FnP.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I actually agree that Uthwe's trait is better for wraith units.

In fact I think they might have gotten Ulthwe and Iyanden mixed up, as I feel like having pseudo-commissar for guardians is more in line with the disciplined Black Guardians than just giving them a 6+ "futuresave".

**Bremon**

That’s really nothing new. Looking at the Space Marine codex there’s certainly a disconnect between the way the game is played and the way GW thinks it’s played/wants it to be played. That disconnect leads to different chapters having specialization that is at odds with the fluff.

On another note, what are the odds that Alaitoc are space elf Raven Guard/Alpha Legion?

**Drake003**

If Alaitoc are like Raven Guard with the -1 to hit them over 12", I'd be very happy!

Be interesting dynamic with Shadow Spectres in particular, where essentially they only benefit when they themselves are not shooting the enemy, but makes them more surviveable in getting into range thanks to the cumulative -1s

Though Dark Reapers would be VERY happy with that trait!

**NurglesR0T**

Elite wraith armies will also be quite susceptible to Smite spam or any reliable source of Mortal Wounds.

Anecdotal, but I played a game the other night against a friends old 7th wraithwing list (dual wraith knights and a couple units of wraithguard/blade units. Mostly just focused on the knights and serpents and let the DG mortal wound bubbles stack up and deal with the other units until I was ready for them. Was actually a fun game

**MechaEmperor7000**

I would be happy too if that was Alaitoc's trait (certainly fits them better than the other two since that was actually the pathfinder's shtick before) although I hope they'll buff their snipers too so they can actually be the awesome snipers of the universe, rather than have Rattlings beat them out.

**Sarigar**

The bump in toughness helps Wraithguard against Assault Cannons. Locally, that is a pretty common Marine weapon I face off againsdt.