Switch Theme:

Beating a Baneblade?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






So ive faced IG a few times now as Chaos, with...About as good results as you can imagine using a melee centric force.

But this next opponent is bringing a baneblade and im wondering how I should even begin to tackle it? Loads of -AP? Just dakka it to death? Bring a knight?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

Shoot it in the face. Equivalent points in lascannons can blenderize it fairly trivially, depending on who shoots first.
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Lascannons and rockets really shouldn't have too much of a problem.
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Dogpile with heavy weapons, from multiple sources. Melta, Lascannons and anything with high AP values. Since melta is the best option, having it on units that can drop in at 9" or less is really helpful. You may need some anti personal weapons to chew through any infantry bubble-wrapping the tank to prevent you from getting close.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





USA

Pretty much what Unit1126PLL said.. just shoot lascannons at it, or use a dedicated superheavy killer unit. A single spartan will knock off an average of about 10 of its wounds in 1 volley for instance. Focus it down until it's gone or charge it with a hard hitter.

As a side note, you really shouldn't need to list tailor to beat an AM list with only one baneblade. If you're consistently losing against it, you're losing against the list, not the baneblade. Ask him politely if he's willing to tone down his list a bit if you find yourself losing too much against him and you're not having any fun.

- 10,000 pts 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

 vaklor4 wrote:
So ive faced IG a few times now as Chaos, with...About as good results as you can imagine using a melee centric force.

But this next opponent is bringing a baneblade and im wondering how I should even begin to tackle it? Loads of -AP? Just dakka it to death? Bring a knight?
If you can kill two Russ tanks, you can kill a Baneblade. They're no harder to kill than that. Whatever you would bring to fight a squadron of Russ tanks will work just as well against a Baneblade.

Theyre actually relatively squishy, particularly relative to every incarnation theyve had over the last decade or so. You should need an average of 20 BS3+ Lascannon shots to kill one (down from about 40 BS4 Lascannons in 7E and about 80 in 5E).

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






I know it seems a tad silly, but what are the odds that a batallion of Khorne Bloodletters and Heralds could mess up their army if given the chance to walk up? On the first charge they sport a 6 str -3 AP, and if I slap a CSM DP nearby, can reroll their hits too.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






slaaneshi obliterators and pray you get lucky with the rolls.

Using Endless Calcaphony, a unit of 3 have a chance to obliterate (heh) one in a single volley.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





One thing I'd recommend though, generally, spread out your heavy weapons where possible. Now that you can split fire easily and effectively, don't provide big juicy targets for enemy units. This is where the tactical squad actually starts to shine. Hiding a lascannon behind 4-9 other models and have several similar units on the table present a targeting challenge, and it's less likely your "one" anti-tank unit will get targeted or charged in close combat.

Melee-centric will be tough due to Strength issues and the Baneblade's ability to fight back and keep shooting regardless.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Get some Heavy Melee, dreadnought tore through my mine once it got to it.

Feed the poor war gamer with money.  
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Vaktathi wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
So ive faced IG a few times now as Chaos, with...About as good results as you can imagine using a melee centric force.

But this next opponent is bringing a baneblade and im wondering how I should even begin to tackle it? Loads of -AP? Just dakka it to death? Bring a knight?
If you can kill two Russ tanks, you can kill a Baneblade. They're no harder to kill than that. Whatever you would bring to fight a squadron of Russ tanks will work just as well against a Baneblade.

Theyre actually relatively squishy, particularly relative to every incarnation theyve had over the last decade or so. You should need an average of 20 BS3+ Lascannon shots to kill one (down from about 40 BS4 Lascannons in 7E and about 80 in 5E).


What? Poor lil Baneblade, I should've bought you when you first got a plastic kit*

On a more serious note, is playing with/against a BB actually considered fun/interesting? I have no experience with superheavies, but I might go with time...that WD spread with several Blades/Swords/Hammers was mighty tempting.

*the thing was half of what I'd have to pay now, too!

Looking for a Skaven Doomwheel banner to repair my Nurgle knights.  
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





 Binabik15 wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
So ive faced IG a few times now as Chaos, with...About as good results as you can imagine using a melee centric force.

But this next opponent is bringing a baneblade and im wondering how I should even begin to tackle it? Loads of -AP? Just dakka it to death? Bring a knight?
If you can kill two Russ tanks, you can kill a Baneblade. They're no harder to kill than that. Whatever you would bring to fight a squadron of Russ tanks will work just as well against a Baneblade.

Theyre actually relatively squishy, particularly relative to every incarnation theyve had over the last decade or so. You should need an average of 20 BS3+ Lascannon shots to kill one (down from about 40 BS4 Lascannons in 7E and about 80 in 5E).


What? Poor lil Baneblade, I should've bought you when you first got a plastic kit*

On a more serious note, is playing with/against a BB actually considered fun/interesting? I have no experience with superheavies, but I might go with time...that WD spread with several Blades/Swords/Hammers was mighty tempting.

*the thing was half of what I'd have to pay now, too!


Yes and no.

I have a shadowsword, and use it in most IG lists to fairly devastating effect. Some opponents have expressed that they like it, because they don't see the sort of thing a lot and it's nicely painted. Some opponents, especially those I play more frequently have requested I not field it in the future because it's presence alone has won me games this edition and it's oppressive to play against.

Here's the thing: a shadowsword or other titanic unit is like a ordinary tank, except there's no good way to neuter it besides blowing it up. Most things can have their effects mitigated with effective counterplay and maneuver. Even Scions and Conscripts can be rendered fairly ineffective at their task through a combination of positioning and having specific units available. Methods that work on lesser vehicles, like entering into CQC with it or taking cover, don't work on Baneblades, because they suffer no movement penalties and can maintain full effectiveness in melee or when they fall back. Baneblades are also effective against both Infantry and Tanks. Even Shadowswords are fairly potent against infantry with 10 Heavy Bolters.

I'm particularly concerned about Valhallan Titanic units, because they'll essentially never degrade, thus pretty much negating their final potential vulnerability.



As far as defeating them goes, filling them with meltagun and lascannon fire is pretty much the only effective solution.

Engage them at range if you can, melee only if they're almost dead and you think you can kill them, because they're completely immune to tarpitting and are themselves effective as tarpits. Overwatch is generally the final defiance of a ranged unit, however, a baneblade wants to be charged, since you do nothing to it's ability to shoot at you, but give it a free bonus set of ranged attacks and melee attacks it didn't have to work for. It's also very difficult to screen against it charging you, since anything short of Conscripts, 'gaunts, or boyz won't have enough models to withstand the withering hail of fire it puts out, and even those units can be finished off by the supporting IG force to allow it to get to whatever you were keen on keeping it out of melee with.



You can also raise the stakes and bring your own Titanic unit, especially one with a Macro weapon. That will solve your problem very nicely, and turn around the balance of power neatly.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/17 21:43:10


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in fi
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




[Expunged from Imperial records] =][=

 chrispy1991 wrote:

As a side note, you really shouldn't need to list tailor to beat an AM list with only one baneblade. If you're consistently losing against it, you're losing against the list, not the baneblade. Ask him politely if he's willing to tone down his list a bit if you find yourself losing too much against him and you're not having any fun.


This. Above all else, this. If someone is bringing a Super Heavy Tank it's not like it's the only thing doing heavy lifting in that list...

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Get some Heavy Melee, dreadnought tore through my mine once it got to it.


Yeah, those things (and equivalents) can destroy a Baneblade-chassis tank if given the chance, at least with IG's Index-rules. No idea how well they would work against a Codex-Baneblade-chassis. Anyway, getting them to melee is the trick.

"Be like General Tarsus of yore, bulletproof and free of fear!" 
   
Made in kr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Whiskey.
Lots of pregame whiskey.

   
Made in us
World-Weary Pathfinder





I'm curious if anyone has experience with Stormlords, How you feel about them on the table any interesting quirks etc.
   
Made in fi
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




[Expunged from Imperial records] =][=

 jeff white wrote:
Whiskey.
Lots of pregame whiskey.


I approve of this tactic.

"Be like General Tarsus of yore, bulletproof and free of fear!" 
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ignore it and secure objectives = automatic win
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





 Viridian wrote:
I'm curious if anyone has experience with Stormlords, How you feel about them on the table any interesting quirks etc.


I faced a renegade stormlord loaded up with mortars pre-codex, but I can't really comment on it because my Shadowsword deleted it in one turn.


Anyway, the Stormlord is mostly effective against infanty, but 4 Lascannons can still do something nasty to tanks. Notably, you can fill the cargo area with 18 gun teams.


If you don't intend to use the transport capacity, consider the Macharius Vulcan. The Macharius trades 6 Heavy Bolters/Heavy Flamers, the Lascannons, and the transport capacity for 10 extra vulcan gun shots and costing two-thirds the price of the Stormlord, which makes it fairly economical as an infantry-deleting device.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Viridian wrote:
I'm curious if anyone has experience with Stormlords, How you feel about them on the table any interesting quirks etc.


I faced a renegade stormlord loaded up with mortars pre-codex, but I can't really comment on it because my Shadowsword deleted it in one turn.


#balanced

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

 Marmatag wrote:
#balanced


It's a Shadowsword against a titanic unit, that is pretty much what it is supposed to do. It's not like it will always do it but with 4 lascannons and hitting on 3s it is really going to hurt any titanic unit.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
World-Weary Pathfinder





 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

I faced a renegade stormlord loaded up with mortars pre-codex, but I can't really comment on it because my Shadowsword deleted it in one turn.


Anyway, the Stormlord is mostly effective against infanty, but 4 Lascannons can still do something nasty to tanks. Notably, you can fill the cargo area with 18 gun teams.


If you don't intend to use the transport capacity, consider the Macharius Vulcan. The Macharius trades 6 Heavy Bolters/Heavy Flamers, the Lascannons, and the transport capacity for 10 extra vulcan gun shots and costing two-thirds the price of the Stormlord, which makes it fairly economical as an infantry-deleting device.


Well you can look at the load out and figure a lot of that out. I'm just wondering on times its been effective or utilized well. Like... if the transportation aspect has ever been warranted. It just seems like the Stormlord has some issues the vanilla Land Raider has being a transport / tank. What would be the best unit to utilize the transport aspect?(I don't play IG or SoB so maybe I don't see something). I like the look its a low key titanic and a bit edgy, like some kind of apocalypse version of a Razorback with AC.

Kind of want one for the fun of it, just exploring the idea. I honestly think the Macharius chassis is ugly as sin, the turret is beautiful though and points wise worth its weight for sure. Bell of Lost Souls did a thing on Macharius vs Stormlord. And yeah a volcano cannon deletes almost anything in a turn, is there a reason why you deleted it so fast? Or was it just cause it was big, shiny and a lot of points?
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





Viridian wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

I faced a renegade stormlord loaded up with mortars pre-codex, but I can't really comment on it because my Shadowsword deleted it in one turn.


Anyway, the Stormlord is mostly effective against infanty, but 4 Lascannons can still do something nasty to tanks. Notably, you can fill the cargo area with 18 gun teams.


If you don't intend to use the transport capacity, consider the Macharius Vulcan. The Macharius trades 6 Heavy Bolters/Heavy Flamers, the Lascannons, and the transport capacity for 10 extra vulcan gun shots and costing two-thirds the price of the Stormlord, which makes it fairly economical as an infantry-deleting device.


Well you can look at the load out and figure a lot of that out. I'm just wondering on times its been effective or utilized well. Like... if the transportation aspect has ever been warranted. It just seems like the Stormlord has some issues the vanilla Land Raider has being a transport / tank. What would be the best unit to utilize the transport aspect?(I don't play IG or SoB so maybe I don't see something). I like the look its a low key titanic and a bit edgy, like some kind of apocalypse version of a Razorback with AC.

Kind of want one for the fun of it, just exploring the idea. I honestly think the Macharius chassis is ugly as sin, the turret is beautiful though and points wise worth its weight for sure. Bell of Lost Souls did a thing on Macharius vs Stormlord. And yeah a volcano cannon deletes almost anything in a turn, is there a reason why you deleted it so fast? Or was it just cause it was big, shiny and a lot of points?


So, I've only seen the Stormlord's transport capacity used as a box for heavy weapons teams to ride in. Lascannons, Missile Launchers, and Mortars seem to be popular. It's very, very good in that respect, but if you're not loading it with crap I think you'd be better off with a regular Baneblade or a Macharius Vulcan.

I've heard proposals to load it up with something like special weapons squads full of Flamers to shove some hurt down someone's throat at close range, but never seen anyone actually do that.



As far as what to stuff in it goes, I'd probably fill it with delicate, cheap, and hard hitting antitank troops.



As far as making it my priority target? It needed to die, because if I didn't kill it, it and the mortars on board would decimate my screening troops. It also represented basically all of his anti-infantry ability in the entire army concentrated in one giant brick, so killing it also pretty much removed the potential threat to my Conscripts. Lords of War tend to create that sort of problem.

Marmatag wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Viridian wrote:
I'm curious if anyone has experience with Stormlords, How you feel about them on the table any interesting quirks etc.


I faced a renegade stormlord loaded up with mortars pre-codex, but I can't really comment on it because my Shadowsword deleted it in one turn.


#balanced


Well, what were you expecting? I brought a thing designed to kill giant tanks, and he brought a giant tank. That's what's expected to happen. His thing is designed to mulch medium and heavy infantry.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/18 22:43:47


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine




Oz

 RedCommander wrote:
 jeff white wrote:
Whiskey.
Lots of pregame whiskey.


I approve of this tactic.


Its surprisingly effective against most of life's problems. Except work. And liver disease.

 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: