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What it says on the tin really. Most of the discussion seems to be around rules changes and points values, but as a fluff/modelling/art/worldbuilding type person it's the little fluff additions that interest me most

Sure. Id be interested in hearing any of the new stories. Especially if any of it relates to nids tau or necrons.

A new artwork was leaked, which shows a fight against Magnus and his thousand sons. So maybe there's a piece of fluff that goes with it.
The image is also weird because the Eldar seem to be lead by Eldrad, but they also fight alongside an avatar of Khaine. But Eldrad is now with the Ynnari, so shouldn't have access to an avatar…
Here is the image:

fresus wrote:
A new artwork was leaked, which shows a fight against Magnus and his thousand sons. So maybe there's a piece of fluff that goes with it.
The image is also weird because the Eldar seem to be lead by Eldrad, but they also fight alongside an avatar of Khaine. But Eldrad is now with the Ynnari, so shouldn't have access to an avatar…

Unless eldar in-game do what players do. Putting in different detachments on the same battlefield. Is there fluffreason why Ynnari and craftworlds would absolutely refuse to work together?

tneva82 wrote:
Unless eldar in-game do what players do. Putting in different detachments on the same battlefield. Is there fluffreason why Ynnari and craftworlds would absolutely refuse to work together?

Ulthwé suffered a pretty big schism with the Ynnari thing, and the craftworlders don't really like Ynnari (they're very suspicious of them).
But they're still Eldar, and they would definitely team up against a greater enemy like Chaos. So if Magnus were attacking Ulthwé, Eldrad and his Ynnari friends would come to help, for sure.
I'm just curious to know if the above picture is clearly explained in the fluff, because you would need something major to have an avatar fighting, with Eldrad to the rescue, or if it's just a mashup of units that look cool, without more consideration.

I'm going to go with 'mashup of units that look cool', with little consideration regards feasibility.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
I'm going to go with 'mashup of units that look cool', with little consideration regards feasibility.

The structures behind reminds me of Craftworld buildings so maybe they are defending Ulthwe from Magnus.

Worth to remember Yvraine trolled Ahriman by breaking his Rubric in front of him, so there is a chance Ahriman told Magnus and they are tracking the Ynarri to *use* that power to free the Thousands sons.


P.S: on an unrelated note i noticed a curious snippet in Jain Zar storm of silence about Eldrad, he seems to value the Safety of Ulthwe even above his life, and in a moment he watchs his own Skein (in the novel he is younger and not yet the main Farseer of Ulthwe )
he notices that it may *last five lifetimes* wich ironically seems to validate the oddity about Eldar lifespan since the 2nd Ed 2000 years as average.

Lord Perversor wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
I'm going to go with 'mashup of units that look cool', with little consideration regards feasibility.

The structures behind reminds me of Craftworld buildings so maybe they are defending Ulthwe from Magnus.

Worth to remember Yvraine trolled Ahriman by breaking his Rubric in front of him, so there is a chance Ahriman told Magnus and they are tracking the Ynarri to *use* that power to free the Thousands sons.


P.S: on an unrelated note i noticed a curious snippet in Jain Zar storm of silence about Eldrad, he seems to value the Safety of Ulthwe even above his life, and in a moment he watchs his own Skein (in the novel he is younger and not yet the main Farseer of Ulthwe )
he notices that it may *last five lifetimes* wich ironically seems to validate the oddity about Eldar lifespan since the 2nd Ed 2000 years as average.

Very interesting. It's always bugged me immensely that the galaxy has seemed to have sprouted dozens of people who are miraculously over 10,000 years old. Eldrad, Cawl, Guilliman. It's like the new 'has killed an Avatar with his bare hands' fluff snippet that they throw into the background for every other character to make them seem awesome.

While I'm disappointed that it has turned out Eldrad is 10k years old (why? Handwavium), it is nice to put to bed the idea that eldar are that long-lived normally which jarrs massively with the Dark Eldar fluff.

Oh, speaking of interesting eldar fluff snippets from other new books, there's this from the Death Guard codex that plays perfectly into my 'Blightdar' conversions



Awesome

The new fluff doesn't seem to directly contradict your notion that Eldrad is effectively a Phoenix Lord of far seers. His soul would have dominance no matter how many Eldar later don his armor and his mantle.

Eldrad's exile from Ulthwé was temporary. They let him back in and while he's not allowed to openly manipulate the Eldar race any more, he's still pulling plenty of strings in a more subtle manner.

We learn this in Ghost Warrior. I'll note that he is still 100% aligned with the Ynnari, though, he just lives on Ulthwé in his office full of random knick-knacks again.

The book also seems to back up the idea that he really is just that old. Yvraine even makes fun of him for it.

 Robin5t wrote:
Eldrad's exile from Ulthwé was temporary. They let him back in and while he's not allowed to openly manipulate the Eldar race any more, he's still pulling plenty of strings in a more subtle manner.

We learn this in Ghost Warrior. I'll note that he is still 100% aligned with the Ynnari, though, he just lives on Ulthwé in his office full of random knick-knacks again.

The book also seems to back up the idea that he really is just that old. Yvraine even makes fun of him for it.

How is Ghost Warrior? Is it all plot or is there some action in it?

It strikes a good balance between action and plot, IMO

It's a very good book. The twist is very interesting and not what you would expect it to be going in, and any Eldar lore fan is going to absolutely geek out about one of the things that happens in it.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:


Oh, speaking of interesting eldar fluff snippets from other new books, there's this from the Death Guard codex that plays perfectly into my 'Blightdar' conversions

Spoiler:

The Serpent and the Fly

Vectoriums of the 5th and 6th Plague Companies engage in a naval battle with Craftworld Saim-Hann and its fleet around the moons of Bosphodia. Before they are driven off, the Death Guard successfully board the craftworld and spread their corruption through the territory of Wild Rider clan Sylthach. In desperation, Saim-Hann’s Seer Council orders ghost warriors to cut that part of the world-ship away with weapon fire. So devastating is the despair felt in that moment that it conjures Nurgle Daemons into the waystones of the surviving Sylthach clan members, possessing them and transforming them into aberrant, insectile half-breeds. Soon enough, tales of spiteful, Chaos-tainted Aeldari corsairs are prevalent throughout the Paragos Sub-sector and beyond.

Awesome

A truly horrible bit of fluff. GW writers are increasingly forgetting that Craftworlds are incable of travelling at FTL speeds and that using the Webway for one is both difficult, dangerous and entirely reliant on finding a tunnel big enough for the continent sized Craftworld to fit in. Saim-Hann in particular seems to pop up in random systems despite the decades or even centuries it would take to travel between them. The despair thing letting in Daemons is particualrly rubbish, pretty much every Craftworld would have fallen to Daemons millenia ago if that could actually happen.

How do they infect soul stones anyway? The whole point of them is that's impossible isn't it?

 Imateria wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:


Oh, speaking of interesting eldar fluff snippets from other new books, there's this from the Death Guard codex that plays perfectly into my 'Blightdar' conversions

Spoiler:

The Serpent and the Fly

Vectoriums of the 5th and 6th Plague Companies engage in a naval battle with Craftworld Saim-Hann and its fleet around the moons of Bosphodia. Before they are driven off, the Death Guard successfully board the craftworld and spread their corruption through the territory of Wild Rider clan Sylthach. In desperation, Saim-Hann’s Seer Council orders ghost warriors to cut that part of the world-ship away with weapon fire. So devastating is the despair felt in that moment that it conjures Nurgle Daemons into the waystones of the surviving Sylthach clan members, possessing them and transforming them into aberrant, insectile half-breeds. Soon enough, tales of spiteful, Chaos-tainted Aeldari corsairs are prevalent throughout the Paragos Sub-sector and beyond.

Awesome

A truly horrible bit of fluff. GW writers are increasingly forgetting that Craftworlds are incable of travelling at FTL speeds and that using the Webway for one is both difficult, dangerous and entirely reliant on finding a tunnel big enough for the continent sized Craftworld to fit in. Saim-Hann in particular seems to pop up in random systems despite the decades or even centuries it would take to travel between them. The despair thing letting in Daemons is particualrly rubbish, pretty much every Craftworld would have fallen to Daemons millenia ago if that could actually happen.

Jarring based on the whole 'chaos eldar are barely a thing' view prior to it, but it certainly opens up some interesting avenues with a bit of creative headcanon-ing (like most fluff to be honest).

What's the issue with the webway thing? Is it that the moons of Bophidia are nowhere near where Saim Hann should be? If so then that's a definite mistake. I can't see any other mention of the webway there.

Absolutely with you on the despair thing being ropey. Despair is basically Iyanden's character trait. If that's all it took then they'd all be gribbly insectile mutants (which is an awesome modelling opportunity btw). You could say that it has to be peaked despair in the presence of Nurgle daemons...but Iyanden is attacked by Nurgle daemons in the Fracture of Biel Tan and one of their few remaining heroes is killed. Again, should be gribbly bug-daemons by now.

Here's where the creative headcanon-ing comes in. Personally, I treat the eldar as only a shade above humanity when it comes to ignorance about how warpstuff works (they know enough more to be elitist about it, but certainly don't know as much as us omniscient observers do...and we don't know that much either). The story you read above is the party line on Saim Hann, or the rumours that filter out through the webway garbled like Chinese Whispers (considering the eldar principally communicate long-distance via word of mouth and harlequin interpretive dance, I'd expect a lot to get garbled).

Here's where the fluff for my Blightdar comes in. They're a group of (now Saim Hann) eldar who have given themselves over to Nurgle. Usually this would just result in Nurgle thinking 'more trouble than it's worth' and Slaanesh chowing down. However, this time Nurgle has a use for them. He tempted them with promises that he could save the eldar from Slaanesh. After all, he saved their mother-goddess from Slaanesh at the height of her power. "Come children, be with Isha. She waits for you...". So, now he has some puppets/pawns to use for his own purposes. What those purposes are, who knows? The Blightdar believe that they're offering a sure-fire way to free themselves from Slaanesh, which is what they're preaching.

However, will Nurgle simply hand them over/consume them himself when their purpose is fulfilled? What is their purpose? Does he have a specific thing he wants to corrupt and the Blightdar are his tool? Does he want to pry the eldar away from Slaanesh, weakening her power? Does he just want a few trophies to flaunt in her face? Who knows the motivations of a warp-god...

pm713 wrote:
How do they infect soul stones anyway? The whole point of them is that's impossible isn't it?

Apparently not...which must be pretty chilling for the eldar to find out...

Realistically there must be a relatively known way (among chaos certainly) to break soulstones. They're used in sorcerous rituals and deals with daemons, so there must be a way to get at the juice soulstuff inside...

You can smash them?

The problem I have with it is it feels less like adding a darker element and more like they forgot their own lore.

pm713 wrote:
You can smash them?

The problem I have with it is it feels less like adding a darker element and more like they forgot their own lore.

I'm sure there are less ham-fisted ways of getting into them

Agreed that it's a little clunky, but the potential for neat new headcanon and fluff writing is worth it IMHO

There's a neat moment in Asurmen when his brother's soul moves into its soul stone while he is possessed and we see the daemon infiltrating the soul stone only to get kicked out. Later, we find out that his brother's soulstone was incorporated into his daemon-killing sword. So, daemons can take over soul stones, but if they fail they've created an Illuminati soul that can be fashioned into a weapon capable of permanently killing daemon princes and the like.

Speaking of Nurgle and Eldar, there’s a rather interesting snippet about Iybraesil. I don’t know if it’s ‘new’ or not but I don’t recall seeing it before.

“The legends ... tell of a pact their ancestors made with the goddess Morai-Heg. Seven times seven of Iybraesil’s warrior women became the Crone’s deathly handmaidens so their sisters might (be) free of her cursing touch.” (my emphasis)

I’m probably reading too much into it, but having buddies who are far too interested in Grandpa has rather focussed my mind on him lately, and while 7-squared does have mythical precedent, that number in conjunction with striking a deal to escape corruption, death and decay seems to me to be skating a little close to that area...

Pilum wrote:
Speaking of Nurgle and Eldar, there’s a rather interesting snippet about Iybraesil. I don’t know if it’s ‘new’ or not but I don’t recall seeing it before.

“The legends ... tell of a pact their ancestors made with the goddess Morai-Heg. Seven times seven of Iybraesil’s warrior women became the Crone’s deathly handmaidens so their sisters might (be) free of her cursing touch.” (my emphasis)

I’m probably reading too much into it, but having buddies who are far too interested in Grandpa has rather focussed my mind on him lately, and while 7-squared does have mythical precedent, that number in conjunction with striking a deal to escape corruption, death and decay seems to me to be skating a little close to that area...

Those entrances are pretty much the same as 7th edition ones and not new.

The little entrances brings a bit more insight like the final one pointing Yvraine is actively seeking to unit all Eldar race together since the fall. Ulthwe spreading his forces all across the galaxy and beyond the Great Rift in order to save as many as possible allies against Chaos in the future or that all the Craftworlds aside two reported being active and functioning after the Great rift spreads.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

Lord Perversor wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
I'm going to go with 'mashup of units that look cool', with little consideration regards feasibility.

The structures behind reminds me of Craftworld buildings so maybe they are defending Ulthwe from Magnus.

Worth to remember Yvraine trolled Ahriman by breaking his Rubric in front of him, so there is a chance Ahriman told Magnus and they are tracking the Ynarri to *use* that power to free the Thousands sons.


P.S: on an unrelated note i noticed a curious snippet in Jain Zar storm of silence about Eldrad, he seems to value the Safety of Ulthwe even above his life, and in a moment he watchs his own Skein (in the novel he is younger and not yet the main Farseer of Ulthwe )
he notices that it may *last five lifetimes* wich ironically seems to validate the oddity about Eldar lifespan since the 2nd Ed 2000 years as average.

Very interesting. It's always bugged me immensely that the galaxy has seemed to have sprouted dozens of people who are miraculously over 10,000 years old. Eldrad, Cawl, Guilliman. It's like the new 'has killed an Avatar with his bare hands' fluff snippet that they throw into the background for every other character to make them seem awesome.

While I'm disappointed that it has turned out Eldrad is 10k years old (why? Handwavium), it is nice to put to bed the idea that eldar are that long-lived normally which jarrs massively with the Dark Eldar fluff.

Oh, speaking of interesting eldar fluff snippets from other new books, there's this from the Death Guard codex that plays perfectly into my 'Blightdar' conversions

Spoiler:

The Serpent and the Fly

Vectoriums of the 5th and 6th Plague Companies engage in a naval battle with Craftworld Saim-Hann and its fleet around the moons of Bosphodia. Before they are driven off, the Death Guard successfully board the craftworld and spread their corruption through the territory of Wild Rider clan Sylthach. In desperation, Saim-Hann’s Seer Council orders ghost warriors to cut that part of the world-ship away with weapon fire. So devastating is the despair felt in that moment that it conjures Nurgle Daemons into the waystones of the surviving Sylthach clan members, possessing them and transforming them into aberrant, insectile half-breeds. Soon enough, tales of spiteful, Chaos-tainted Aeldari corsairs are prevalent throughout the Paragos Sub-sector and beyond.

Awesome

Eldrad being 10k years old is 10 year old fluff, maybe older, he turned up in the fulgrim novel.... in which fulcrum killed an avatar with his bare hands.... ok point taken


Automatically Appended Next Post:
About the soul stone thing, in angel exterminatus fulgrim can access them to sacrifice the souls of the contained eldar, the emperor children actually consume them and seem to gain some sort of power from them.

 Imateria wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:


Oh, speaking of interesting eldar fluff snippets from other new books, there's this from the Death Guard codex that plays perfectly into my 'Blightdar' conversions

Spoiler:

The Serpent and the Fly

Vectoriums of the 5th and 6th Plague Companies engage in a naval battle with Craftworld Saim-Hann and its fleet around the moons of Bosphodia. Before they are driven off, the Death Guard successfully board the craftworld and spread their corruption through the territory of Wild Rider clan Sylthach. In desperation, Saim-Hann’s Seer Council orders ghost warriors to cut that part of the world-ship away with weapon fire. So devastating is the despair felt in that moment that it conjures Nurgle Daemons into the waystones of the surviving Sylthach clan members, possessing them and transforming them into aberrant, insectile half-breeds. Soon enough, tales of spiteful, Chaos-tainted Aeldari corsairs are prevalent throughout the Paragos Sub-sector and beyond.

Awesome

A truly horrible bit of fluff. GW writers are increasingly forgetting that Craftworlds are incable of travelling at FTL speeds and that using the Webway for one is both difficult, dangerous and entirely reliant on finding a tunnel big enough for the continent sized Craftworld to fit in. Saim-Hann in particular seems to pop up in random systems despite the decades or even centuries it would take to travel between them. The despair thing letting in Daemons is particualrly rubbish, pretty much every Craftworld would have fallen to Daemons millenia ago if that could actually happen.

Keep in mind that chaos and the effects of the warp are strengthened now as opposed to just a few hundred years previous fluffwise. Things that chaos couldn't normally do became possible when the galaxy ripped in half. A good example is poxwalkers, previously there was just 'the zombie plague' that did resident evil style zombies, but now there are dozens of different varieties that may not even need conventional biological means to spread. Some poxwalkers can spread the curse just by victims hearing their moans, becoming infected even if they are physically sealed off from the source. That's something which didn't happen before.

Also note that the individuals who became possessed were already residing in a section of craftworld infected by Death Guard plagues, something that the average grief-stricken eldar aren't dealing with

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
There's a neat moment in Asurmen when his brother's soul moves into its soul stone while he is possessed and we see the daemon infiltrating the soul stone only to get kicked out. Later, we find out that his brother's soulstone was incorporated into his daemon-killing sword. So, daemons can take over soul stones, but if they fail they've created an Illuminati soul that can be fashioned into a weapon capable of permanently killing daemon princes and the like.

Neat that does sort of fit with other fluff examples of possession (if someone can exorcise their daemon or resist possession, it imbues them with some sort of power).

Pilum wrote:
Speaking of Nurgle and Eldar, there’s a rather interesting snippet about Iybraesil. I don’t know if it’s ‘new’ or not but I don’t recall seeing it before.

“The legends ... tell of a pact their ancestors made with the goddess Morai-Heg. Seven times seven of Iybraesil’s warrior women became the Crone’s deathly handmaidens so their sisters might (be) free of her cursing touch.” (my emphasis)

I’m probably reading too much into it, but having buddies who are far too interested in Grandpa has rather focussed my mind on him lately, and while 7-squared does have mythical precedent, that number in conjunction with striking a deal to escape corruption, death and decay seems to me to be skating a little close to that area...

Neat as well I always like little fluff suggestions that could be nothing, or could be the hints of a conspiracy theory with horrifying consequences

 Formosa wrote:


Eldrad being 10k years old is 10 year old fluff, maybe older, he turned up in the fulgrim novel.... in which fulcrum killed an avatar with his bare hands.... ok point taken


Automatically Appended Next Post:
About the soul stone thing, in angel exterminatus fulgrim can access them to sacrifice the souls of the contained eldar, the emperor children actually consume them and seem to gain some sort of power from them.

Hah I suppose that belies my age somewhat in that I still view Eldrad being bonkers-old as newer fluff. It definitely strikes me that the Horus Heresy writers only had the most cursory knowledge of eldar fluff when they wrote the books. For instance, it seems like they literally ported eldar directly over from 40k (named characters and all), making the common error of not realising that the Fall was what kicked off the Great Crusade by wiping out the warp storms of the Old Night.

That particular interesting bit is one of my favourite nuances with the eldar fluff as it gives them a lot more potential for their culture to be dynamic and changing over the course of time, avoiding the common (and unrealistic) stereotype of elven-archetype cultures to be monolithic and unchanging over ludicrous timescales.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Keep in mind that chaos and the effects of the warp are strengthened now as opposed to just a few hundred years previous fluffwise. Things that chaos couldn't normally do became possible when the galaxy ripped in half. A good example is poxwalkers, previously there was just 'the zombie plague' that did resident evil style zombies, but now there are dozens of different varieties that may not even need conventional biological means to spread. Some poxwalkers can spread the curse just by victims hearing their moans, becoming infected even if they are physically sealed off from the source. That's something which didn't happen before.

Also note that the individuals who became possessed were already residing in a section of craftworld infected by Death Guard plagues, something that the average grief-stricken eldar aren't dealing with

Cool headcanon idea. I like it that Chaos are now able to pull off tricks that no-one thought they were able to. Bet that's taking quite a few Inquisitors by surprise...

It isn't headcanon when it's stated in official fluff...

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
There's a neat moment in Asurmen when his brother's soul moves into its soul stone while he is possessed and we see the daemon infiltrating the soul stone only to get kicked out. Later, we find out that his brother's soulstone was incorporated into his daemon-killing sword. So, daemons can take over soul stones, but if they fail they've created an Illuminati soul that can be fashioned into a weapon capable of permanently killing daemon princes and the like.

Neat that does sort of fit with other fluff examples of possession (if someone can exorcise their daemon or resist possession, it imbues them with some sort of power).

Well that IS how you get Harlequins. The prospect is possessed by a daemon. If they can cast it out, they become a harlie. If not...

 Happyjew wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
There's a neat moment in Asurmen when his brother's soul moves into its soul stone while he is possessed and we see the daemon infiltrating the soul stone only to get kicked out. Later, we find out that his brother's soulstone was incorporated into his daemon-killing sword. So, daemons can take over soul stones, but if they fail they've created an Illuminati soul that can be fashioned into a weapon capable of permanently killing daemon princes and the like.

Neat that does sort of fit with other fluff examples of possession (if someone can exorcise their daemon or resist possession, it imbues them with some sort of power).

Well that IS how you get Harlequins. The prospect is possessed by a daemon. If they can cast it out, they become a harlie. If not...

No it isn't.

There is no official GW source saying that. If you trace the line of evidence it all ultimately comes down to unsourced third party claims that that is what the Harlequins' "Ritual" involves. People made it up (likely conflating it with the old Illuminati from the Realms of Chaos) and others ran with it, thinking it was GW.

The only thing GW ever specifically said, and even that is arguably unofficial, is in the old Citadel Journal, in the test Harlequin Codex by Gav Thorpe where he alludes to the Harlequins having to go through a ritual (called the Ritual ), to free their souls from Slaanesh. However absolutely no other details are provided beyond that. I know this because I have that particular Citadel Journal.

Eldrad isn't with the Ynnari faction. It is stated in the codex that Ulthwe has splintered into 3 Factions. There is those who stayed on Ulthwe, Eldrads splinter group who are his followers there may be some from other craftworlds too and those who have joined the Ynnari.

They are said to have fought together a lot but they may have also fought against each other too. Though that might be Ynnari in general fighting against the Craftworlds.

Generally there is more fluff on each of the main craftworlds and also the minor ones and what they are doing now the years have advanced a load. For instance Biel-tan is said to not be destroyed and the Bonesingers are working to keep it from breaking up completely. Saim-hann stuff was quite interesting.

Neat! That's actually what I intended this thread to be: a summary of neat new fluff snipppets from the codex (although i'm one that views thread drift very positively ).

What's happened with Saim Hann?

Wait, they remembered that Saim-Hann exists? Colour me surprised.

Very little "happened" with Saim-Hann, just snippets about their views and way of life. Namely how they are less concerned than other craftworlds about the lesser races, though they cull Ork colonies as a matter of course and take a special point of hunting down and exterminating any Necrons. The other major snippet was how Saim-Hann is more direct in resolving disputes and debates by resorting to ritual combat, with all parties then accepting and supporting the result. The other craftworlds find this savage, while the Saim-Hann clans find this a way to save time and to cut through endless discussion and resolve even the most complex of issues.

So it seems Saim-Hann is more ritualistic, at least in some aspects, than other craftworlds. That and their obsession with honor might lead to them valuing form over pragmatism, at least as compared to their peers. My own interpretation only but I could therefore see the death of Gnosis Prime, when Saim-Hann gave a one day ultimatum for the Imperium to evacuate a whole hive world, as Saim-Hann following ritual form too even though they might have been aware of the impossibility of their demand. "The Ritual of Squatter Eviction dictates one day's notice be given regardless of length of illegal tenancy so that is what they get."