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So, at the time that Fulgrim ratted on Curze to Dorn and Curze then proceeded to beat Dorn like the little bitch he is, had Fulgrim gotten the sword? Was Fulgrim still loyal at that point, in the process of falling, or off of the deep end? Is it possible Fulgrim was trying to drive Curze towards the traitor side by encouraging a violent confrontation?

I had always thought it was before. There is a short story that covers the confrontation, and one about Konrads escape. It is a bit strange that Kurze kills a few EC Guards and Fulgrim just kinda lets it slide.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I had always thought it was before. There is a short story that covers the confrontation, and one about Konrads escape. It is a bit strange that Kurze kills a few EC Guards and Fulgrim just kinda lets it slide.

I've read both, but they give few hints and no solid answers.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
beat Dorn like the little bitch he is

Did Dorn touch you in a bad place or something?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
beat Dorn like the little bitch he is

Did Dorn touch you in a bad place or something?

Dorn is the worst.

Thats literally impossible though, as Lorgar exists. Mortarion exists. Perturabo exists.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
beat Dorn like the little bitch he is

Did Dorn touch you in a bad place or something?

Dorn is the worst.

*citation needed*

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Thats literally impossible though, as Lorgar exists. Mortarion exists. Perturabo exists.

Perturabo exists because Dorn called back the fleet kicking Perty's ass as said battle was in progress.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Thats literally impossible though, as Lorgar exists. Mortarion exists. Perturabo exists.

Perturabo exists because Dorn called back the fleet kicking Perty's ass as said battle was in progress.

EmpNorton thinks the Primarchs should be utterly flawless and never make mistakes during the confusion of the fogh of war...

or something

Emp there seems to be a fan of Alpharius.

Dorn sawed Alpharius in half.

:p

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Thats literally impossible though, as Lorgar exists. Mortarion exists. Perturabo exists.

Perturabo exists because Dorn called back the fleet kicking Perty's ass as said battle was in progress.

I’m pretty sure Dorn wasn’t aware of what was happening. He recalled his fleet and they withdrew, following his orders out of loyalty.

 Crazyterran wrote:

Dorn sawed Alpharius in half.

Alpharius: "Cut off the hydra's head and 2 more shall grow in its place!"
Dorn: "OK, how about if I chop your hands off and then saw you in half?"
Alpharius: "Umm, yeah, that'll probably do it."

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Thats literally impossible though, as Lorgar exists. Mortarion exists. Perturabo exists.

Perturabo exists because Dorn called back the fleet kicking Perty's ass as said battle was in progress.

EmpNorton thinks the Primarchs should be utterly flawless and never make mistakes during the confusion of the fogh of war...

or something

Look. Dorn *is* responsible for training his Legion to be so mindless and inflexible that they obeyed orders from an idiot who had no idea what was going on instead of killing a Primarch. That part was no accident or coincidence.

You do remember that the entire boarding party except for one man was slaughtered right? And that the order to withdraw had come months earlier only reaching the fleet at the time when the Warp Storms would have allowed them to run?

He didn't just randomly decide, now is the time to order a regrouping, he ordered it as soon as he learned of the other Legions that joined the Rebellion. Its likely, probable infact, that the message was allowed to reach the Fleet when it did, by the gods to better make sure that the Iron Warriors didn't lose.

To be fair Peturabo was portrayed as losing to a much smaller force because apparently the tactics to counter Sigismund leave you completely vulnerable to a different stratagem. Seems like void warfare is a game of rock-paper-scissors to that author.

Having said that, the situation could have changed with the Iron Warriors gaining the advantage and more importantly, Polux had no idea what was going on at Terra. For all he knew it was under siege and desperately needed reinforcements. Returning when the order was received makes sense. He would have been unsure if the passage through the Warp Storms would only last for a short period of time and fighting to the end with Peturabo could have left him with no way to return to Terra and provide important forces.

As for Dorn, sending the order was entirely reasonable. Him not being prescient is a good thing. Blaming the outcome of the Battle of Phall on him is highly unfair.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
To be fair Peturabo was portrayed as losing to a much smaller force because apparently the tactics to counter Sigismund leave you completely vulnerable to a different stratagem. Seems like void warfare is a game of rock-paper-scissors to that author.

Having said that, the situation could have changed with the Iron Warriors gaining the advantage and more importantly, Polux had no idea what was going on at Terra. For all he knew it was under siege and desperately needed reinforcements. Returning when the order was received makes sense. He would have been unsure if the passage through the Warp Storms would only last for a short period of time and fighting to the end with Peturabo could have left him with no way to return to Terra and provide important forces.

As for Dorn, sending the order was entirely reasonable. Him not being prescient is a good thing. Blaming the outcome of the Battle of Phall on him is highly unfair.

and listening to those orders even when it's possiable ignoring them could have killed a Primarch is pretty forgivable. History is FULL of examples of a glory seeking commander ignoring a fall back order because he's convinced he can win, only to get multched when the foe he thinks he's beating turns out to just be bait for a trap his CO saw coming

Is hating Dorn and Perturabo even possible?

 Jollydevil wrote:
Is hating Dorn and Perturabo even possible?

This is the Internet. For every conceivable combination of things, there us at least one person that hates it.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Jollydevil wrote:
Is hating Dorn and Perturabo even possible?

This is the Internet. For every conceivable combination of things, there us at least one person that hates it.

I don't know if I would want to live knowing that.

 Jollydevil wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Jollydevil wrote:
Is hating Dorn and Perturabo even possible?

This is the Internet. For every conceivable combination of things, there us at least one person that hates it.

I don't know if I would want to live knowing that.

Anyways, has anyone figured out if this incident happened before or after Fulgrim got the sword?

The Cheraut incident occurred in 984.M30 according to HH2 - Massacre. The Cleansing of Laeran is the EC's first known action after Ullanor, putting it in the latter half of 000.M31.

DarkSoldier wrote:
The Cheraut incident occurred in 984.M30 according to HH2 - Massacre. The Cleansing of Laeran is the EC's first known action after Ullanor, putting it in the latter half of 000.M31.

Thank you.