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I guy I used to know on-line had a few books history books published, he was always planning to write a history of Russia from the Tsars to the oligarchs called "Somehow it gets worse".
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I saw a intresting documentary about that period when the Navy crews rebelled against communists because they felt the revolution was not true to its roots.
They lost, though early on there resistance and such as quite symbolic.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
I saw a intresting documentary about that period when the Navy crews rebelled against communists because they felt the revolution was not true to its roots.
Probably, the Kronstadt uprising? One of the events that showed that the Bolsheviks went on the bloody path.
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
I saw a intresting documentary about that period when the Navy crews rebelled against communists because they felt the revolution was not true to its roots.
Probably, the Kronstadt uprising? One of the events that showed that the Bolsheviks went on the bloody path.
All revolutions end in failure. The American Revolution had the whisky rebellion, and the founding fathers' reaction to it was very hypocritical to say the least.
The French revolution was hijacked by Napoleon.
And the Russian revolution ended when Trotsky turned the guns on the sailors. From then on, it was a naked power grab.
Who knows what might have happened if Kerensky hadn't made the idiotic decision to launch another Russian offensive?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
I saw a intresting documentary about that period when the Navy crews rebelled against communists because they felt the revolution was not true to its roots.
Probably, the Kronstadt uprising? One of the events that showed that the Bolsheviks went on the bloody path.
The Kronstadt rebellion was also a fight between different visions of communism (anarchist vs authoritarian). The Bolshevik quickly showed that they would only accept their own view on the matter.
I saw a intresting documentary about that period when the Navy crews rebelled against communists because they felt the revolution was not true to its roots.
Probably, the Kronstadt uprising? One of the events that showed that the Bolsheviks went on the bloody path.
All revolutions end in failure. The American Revolution had the whisky rebellion, and the founding fathers' reaction to it was very hypocritical to say the least.
The French revolution was hijacked by Napoleon.
And the Russian revolution ended when Trotsky turned the guns on the sailors. From then on, it was a naked power grab.
Who knows what might have happened if Kerensky hadn't made the idiotic decision to launch another Russian offensive?
Depends on how you define "failure" in this case, The French revolution did actually liberalize France and heralded the end of feudalism and the aristocracy, even though it was a "two steps forward, one steps backwards" situation.
Same with the Russian revolution, say what you will about the Bolsheviks, but they were an improvement to the serfdom and tzardom that was before them.
It liberalized France at the expensive of Europe going to hell in a handcart!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
I don't doubt the good intentions of ordinary peasant people who just wanted a better life than abject poverty and Cossacks shooting you down.
But yeah, it spiralled out of control real bad.
The legacy of Communism will be with us for a long time. It provoked Fascism in Italy and Germany, and of course, China has been heavily influenced by Communism.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
Given that we've established in other threads that intention is what counts behind an action, surely the birth of communism is something to celebrate? It very quickly turned into the greatest gak sandwich the world has ever seen, but the intention at the outset was good and noble. The intention is what counts, right?
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
Given that we've established in other threads that intention is what counts behind an action, surely the birth of communism is something to celebrate? It very quickly turned into the greatest gak sandwich the world has ever seen, but the intention at the outset was good and noble. The intention is what counts, right?
The intentions of Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky were carried out. Murder and death on a scale that would give Hitler pause.
Lenin set up the first version of what would become the KGB. The death started then.
Happy anniversary to all comrades out there. Kinda a pity that the Soviet Union fell now. The party probably would have been epic.
Millions of his victims cry out for justice.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/07 17:13:05
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
Except that the goal of Nazism was to murder or enslave anyone who wasn't "aryan" and the goal of Communism was to provide equal opportunities and a decent standard of living to all mankind? And taking a look at Russia in 1917 and at Russia in 1957, they did a damn good job. From a rural agrarian backwater where people couldn't even read or write to a spacefaring nuclear superpower. Not bad. A pity that they forgot about the whole equality thing though.
Frazzled wrote: Millions of his victims cry out for justice.
In a few weeks time it will be Thanksgiving. May I remind you of the fact that you will be celebrating an even bigger massacre? Maybe you should change it into a national day of atonement for the massacre of indigenous Americans instead?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/07 17:22:35
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
Given that we've established in other threads that intention is what counts behind an action, surely the birth of communism is something to celebrate? It very quickly turned into the greatest gak sandwich the world has ever seen, but the intention at the outset was good and noble. The intention is what counts, right?
The intentions of Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky were carried out. Murder and death on a scale that would give Hitler pause.
Lenin set up the first version of what would become the KGB. The death started then.
So we agree the USSR quickly became the greatest gak sandwich the world has ever seen.
You're literally celebrating genocide.
I'm saying if intention is what counts, then the birth of communism is something to be celebrated. At birth, the USSR had good intentions.
Or maybe I'm trying to illustrate, in a cheeky way, that intentions an behind action doesn't matter jack squat and it's the actual outcome of those actions that matters.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
Except that the goal of Nazism was to murder or enslave anyone who wasn't "aryan" and the goal of Communism was to provide equal opportunities and a decent standard of living to all mankind?
And taking a look at Russia in 1917 and at Russia in 1957, they did a damn good job. From a rural agrarian backwater where people couldn't even read or write to a spacefaring nuclear superpower. Not bad. A pity that they forgot about the whole equality thing though.
Ask the "politially unreliable" people's how it worked out. As for the economy, Russia's economy is smaller than Brazil and killed millions of people for NOTHING. One hundred million died in China. 1/4 of the population died in Cambodia. Wherever it was put
Frazzled wrote: Millions of his victims cry out for justice.
In a few weeks time it will be Thanksgiving. May I remind you of the fact that you will be celebrating an even bigger massacre? Maybe you should change it into a national day of atonement for the massacre of indigenous Americans instead?
You're just jealous of our recent technological innovation-frying turkeys in peanut oil, and of course our latest invention: turduckin.
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
Given that we've established in other threads that intention is what counts behind an action, surely the birth of communism is something to celebrate? It very quickly turned into the greatest gak sandwich the world has ever seen, but the intention at the outset was good and noble. The intention is what counts, right?
The intentions of Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky were carried out. Murder and death on a scale that would give Hitler pause. Lenin set up the first version of what would become the KGB. The death started then.
So we agree the USSR quickly became the greatest gak sandwich the world has ever seen.
You're literally celebrating genocide.
I'm saying if intention is what counts, then the birth of communism is something to be celebrated. At birth, the USSR had good intentions.
Or maybe I'm trying to illustrate, in a cheeky way, that intentions an behind action doesn't matter jack squat and it's the actual outcome of those actions that matters.
I'm saying, from the start the Bolsheviks did not have good intentions.
EDIT: to be clear, I am not disparaging the Russians, or anyone alive, unless of course Lenin is attached to some sort of Golden Throne, just waiting for his time to strike...
OK thats wrong, I am still disparaging Malfred for stealing my socks.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/07 17:36:49
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
No, Nazi is an ideology based on eliminating all the people, not belongs to some fiction "aryans". Communism is an ideology of people's equality.
Hey if that makes you sleep better at night. Just be sure to skip over the parts about the dictatorship thing to re-order society, and what the Bolsheviks actually did.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
No, Nazi is an ideology based on eliminating all the people, not belongs to some fiction "aryans". Communism is an ideology of people's equality.
Hey if that makes you sleep better at night. Just be sure to skip over the parts about the dictatorship thing to re-order society, and what the Bolsheviks actually did.
Like bringing electricity and education to the poor?
Aye, the Bolsheviks did many things that were bad. But you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs, and they did far more good than they ever did bad. Nobody in history is completely good. Virtually every government has committed atrocities (you as American should know that better than most), but overall, despite the atrocities they committed, the Bolsheviks were a force for good. Their good acts outweigh their bad ones.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/07 17:55:34
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
No, Nazi is an ideology based on eliminating all the people, not belongs to some fiction "aryans". Communism is an ideology of people's equality.
Hey if that makes you sleep better at night. Just be sure to skip over the parts about the dictatorship thing to re-order society, and what the Bolsheviks actually did.
Like bringing electricity and education to the poor?
Most of the world managed that without slaughtering a portion of the population.
Now the real question is, was vodka better before or after the revolution.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/07 17:55:11
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Its like a thread celebrating the birth of Nazism, except of course the slaughter is a magnitude greater.
No, Nazi is an ideology based on eliminating all the people, not belongs to some fiction "aryans". Communism is an ideology of people's equality.
Hey if that makes you sleep better at night. Just be sure to skip over the parts about the dictatorship thing to re-order society, and what the Bolsheviks actually did.
Like bringing electricity and education to the poor?
Most of the world managed that without slaughtering a portion of the population.
That is not true. Do you know how many people have been slaughtered by your government and its predecessors? Did you forget your own civil war already? All the wars against native Americans? The massacre of people in colonies? There is no government on earth that hasn't slaughtered a portion of its population at some point in time. The only real difference is that in the West, this is all long ago enough that the people have forgotten, while in Russia it is more recent. And of course all of the russophobic and anti-communist propaganda that the West is so fond of that makes sure people in the West only know about the bad things that communism did, and not the good.
You're arguing that to bring electricity and education, you have to have gulags? Can you explain the connection to me?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Don't ask me, ask Iron Captain. He's the one arguing lots of people have to die to hook up the electric grid.
Must be a Matrix thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To be clear, celebration of ending the Czar and Boyars, good. Bolsheviks, bad. Very very bad.
To quote Ferris Bueller, "I am against isms."
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/11/07 18:19:16
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Like bringing electricity and education to the poor?
Aye, the Bolsheviks did many things that were bad. But you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs, and they did far more good than they ever did bad. Nobody in history is completely good. Virtually every government has committed atrocities (you as American should know that better than most), but overall, despite the atrocities they committed, the Bolsheviks were a force for good. Their good acts outweigh their bad ones.
"Sure, father and all my uncles were seized in the night by government agents with no explanation, but at least I have a lightbulb to learn to read by!
Communism, as practiced under Stalin and to a lesser extent his successors, resulted in the greatest genocide of the last 100 years. You can't handwave that away with some creature comforts and an improved literacy rate.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Like bringing electricity and education to the poor?
Aye, the Bolsheviks did many things that were bad. But you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs, and they did far more good than they ever did bad. Nobody in history is completely good. Virtually every government has committed atrocities (you as American should know that better than most), but overall, despite the atrocities they committed, the Bolsheviks were a force for good. Their good acts outweigh their bad ones.
"Sure, father and all my uncles were seized in the night by government agents with no explanation, but at least I have a lightbulb to learn to read by!
Communism, as practiced under Stalin and to a lesser extent his successors, resulted in the greatest genocide of the last 100 years. You can't handwave that away with some creature comforts and an improved literacy rate.
Exactly. For one brief moment the long suffering Russian people had a chance for a new and better way. The Bolsheviks ended that.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
6000 pts - 
4000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 
1000 pts
