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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User



Canada eh?

Hi all,

Brand new to the 40K universe (though I have several years under my belt with various other tabletop games), and I'm really confused with all the load out options for the various models. I'm used to buying model A, and he's exactly the same as everyone else's model A. After reading tons of articles on "Use X weapon with your ABC troops when staying back shooting, but Y weapon if you want them to be strong in assault", I don't really know how this is accomplished. Assuming I don't have extras lying around from previous models (specially anything with "plasma" or "laser" in it), do you literally buy a box of tactical squad units and a bunch of plasma gun bits (or whatever) from some bitz store or another, and build things that way, for pretty much EVERY unit? Shields on librarians, jet packs on whatevers, the list goes on... It seems like you almost need to know what you want your ending army to look like before you start collecting. Am I ruining my dark imperium models by building them stock with only what comes in the box, dooming them to low point games forever? Or do you simply magnetize everything, all the time, for every unit you buy, so the option is there if you want it?

tl:dr

When starting, do you literally buy a box of assault marines and addition sprews of bitz for all combinations of load outs you may ever want?


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/09 13:17:55


~ SA 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Some boxes have options so for squad of tacticals you want flamer you have flamer in box, for squad with plasma you have plasma.

After buying bunch of boxes you often have large number of spare pieces. This is often called "bits box" and allows customization in future.

And yes many use bits stores etc. And yes knowing what your army will be in the end is very helpful if you are looking for competive list. That's why many plan it out in advance and then buy all rather than unit at a time.

And magnetization is popular option as well especially since rules change so often.

As for what I buy that depends unit I'm building.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






It is vital to have a good idea of what the final army is supposed to be like.

This is a major hurdle to getting started in 40K. Lots of people start collecting models and they hit a point about a year in where they've built their army piecemeal, figured out how the game works but are still loosing most of their games because they don't have a coherent army. Lots of them quit around that point...

If you can find an experienced player to help you put together an army list that suits how you'd like to play that'll give you something to work towards.

Also - do remember that WYSIWYG is not part of the rules anymore (It does make things much easier for you and your opponent. Also, many tournaments enforce it for that reason.) so you can decide to use other weapon loadouts regardless of what you put on the model.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/09 13:37:10


 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Welcome to Dakka and the hobby.

The number of choices can be a bit intimidating. With the Dark Imperium box you should be pretty safe just building it. At least the marine half, I can’t really speak for the chaos side.

Magnets are a solid option, but not everything needs that level of customization. The other option is the swap shelf. For example, I’ve got a number of tactical squads at their “shelf” deployment. So squad 1 is ML/F with a bolter sarge, 3rd squad is LC/P with a combi plas sarge, etc. But on the shelf below I’ve got extra random guys with special/heavy weapons who can sub in when needed. You can pick up an extra box of tactical marines and just use the power armored bodies to build all the weapons from the devastator box (which has more guns then bodies). This gives your overall collection a great deal of flex when it comes to building lists.

Unless you play in a hyper competitive meta, a lot of the choices are not going to be game breaking. I don’t think its the best use of points to give a tactical sarge a powerfist, but it can come in handy from time to time. But if you tighten up your list building, he might sit on the shelf later collecting dust. That said, editions come and go. My 3rd ed captain with a power sword and stormbolter sucked pretty hard for 4th-7th editions, but now in 8th he’s back to being a viable wargear load.

   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

I think the Dark Imperium models are all just mono-pose, and don't come with any extra bits. If you're just getting started you're probably fine to build them as-is.

Generally when you buy a box of models it will come with various different weapons - although not always enough to allow for every possible combination of what the squad could take...
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User



Canada eh?

Thanks for the replies guys, lots of good suggestions. I think I've been resisting the idea of magnetizing because a previous attempt at it didn't go so well. Like anything else though, it's a skill which should (supposedly) improve with practice. Nice to hear that WYSIWYG isn't SPECIFICALLY in the rules. I agree, it makes things easier on everyone if my models are (battle reports are brutal to watch when they aren't), but we're a pretty casual bunch, so I'll talk to them and feel out the mood on it, and try not to stress so much. I REALLY like the idea of shelf swap, and I can see myself doing this over magnetizing. I'm a hobbyist first and a gamer second, so buying and building additional units (within reason) with some varying load outs seems an attractive possible solution.

Thanks for the replies all!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/09 14:29:40


~ SA 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Usually what I do is when going to build a unit I open the army list and see what options are available and how I'm allowed to equip them. Then I pick the stuff that I think might be useful or cool.

Most often if you change your mind many years later, you can either cut the old weapon off or it'll snap off where it was glued (especially if you just use a tiny dab, enough to hold it) and replace it with a new weapon.

Worse case if you can't get the weapon off, you can cut the hand or arm off and replace the limb as well.

We're gonna need another Timmy!

6400 pts+ 8th
My Gallery
____________________________
https://www.patreon.com/kaotkbliss
 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User



Canada eh?

kaotkbliss wrote:
... (especially if you just use a tiny dab, enough to hold it) and replace it with a new weapon. Worse case if you can't get the weapon off, you can cut the hand or arm off and replace the limb as well.


LOL that's a good point. I have a habit of over gluing, so I'll keep that in mind. It seems like the models are quite light weight, so it probably doesn't take, much does it? And like you said, nothing is permanent. I'd rather not have to hack of a limb, but I always COULD if it was important enough to me.

~ SA 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman



Tampa, Florida

Marines are quite easy to magnetize as their wrists are almost the perfect size for the tiny magnets and most of the guns already have a hand attached. You can give it a shot but beware it's very easy to put too much glue on the magnet and wind up with permanently attached hands by accident. Arms for melee weapons can also be magnetized pretty easily, you just need to drill out a hole for the magnet to sit in, otherwise they stick off the model too far.

Or you can just do what we all seem to do eventually, collect build and paint so many dudes you have every possible combination ready to go.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





IandI wrote:
Or you can just do what we all seem to do eventually, collect build and paint so many dudes you have every possible combination ready to go.


GW's preferred method LOL

We're gonna need another Timmy!

6400 pts+ 8th
My Gallery
____________________________
https://www.patreon.com/kaotkbliss
 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





You could also simply play Necrons .

Without magnets the hobby will become even more expensive, so if budget is a problem for you, I'd seriously consider magnetizing. I personally magnetized near everything, helbrute arms, jump packs, icons, special weapons, CC weapons, havoc launchers...
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

kaotkbliss wrote:
IandI wrote:
Or you can just do what we all seem to do eventually, collect build and paint so many dudes you have every possible combination ready to go.


GW's preferred method LOL


I’d say I’m ashamed to have more captains on the shelf then there are in a Marine Chapter, but that would be a lie. Something about being a marine player that just tends to make them accumulate. They are so much fun to build and paint.

At least the newer ones are magnetized. Which should in theory slow down my desire to build more. But probably wont.

I really need to reevaluate my shelf deployment for 8th and see what I need to do to modernize my force. Probably need to make a handful of new sergeants. Again.

   
Made in ca
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






It depends on how you play the game. Some people feel the need to ensure that every bit of their army is optimized and make regular changes to respond to the meta. Other players build a force they like and challenge themselves to do the best with the troops they have available.

Neither way is right or wrong, but there's no need to jump on the treadmill if it doesn't appeal.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User



Canada eh?

 Asmodai wrote:
It depends on how you play the game. Some people feel the need to ensure that every bit of their army is optimized and make regular changes to respond to the meta. Other players build a force they like and challenge themselves to do the best with the troops they have available.

Neither way is right or wrong, but there's no need to jump on the treadmill if it doesn't appeal.


Thanks Asmodai, that's nice to hear. I've never really been a min-maxer, and play in a more casual drink beer while we game kinda meta (At least in other games up until now). I'd like to have a range of options, but not feel the need to be constantly swapping if/when there's changes in my local meta. Tabling each other ASAP with cheese lists is never really our goal, so it's nice to think I can learn to play with a fun army and not be laughed out of the room for having the "wrong" weapons on whatever units I field.

~ SA 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Kapuskasing, ON

I'm a hobbyist first and gamer second as well. Either case it's very good to have a solid idea what your final army will look like. I also found it helpful to look up what's on all the sprues beforehand which allowed me to plan out the order which I buy the boxes this way my bit box is efficiently used from the get go. Some people keep multiple armies and swap them as flavours of the week change. Each time building very specific armies for competitive meta. Others stick to a faction and keep building a horde of different units for their collection and can easily select what they want each edition change. Then there's a whole bunch in between. I'm more of a hobbyist and continue to build my ork horde. If you are a hobbyist and unconcerned with the ever changing game rules then I'm sure you'll want a bit of everything from your faction built around a core theme.
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






I never bother to magnetise infantry, It is just not worth the effort. It is probably a good idea to magnetise the main guns of expensive vehicles though.

   
Made in au
Furious Raptor




Sydney, Australia

 Crimson wrote:
I never bother to magnetise infantry, It is just not worth the effort. It is probably a good idea to magnetise the main guns of expensive vehicles though.


This is how I do it too - a mix of the magnets and the "swap shelf". I'll magnetize my dreadnoughts (Helbrutes) and my tanks to allow me to have all the options I might want to have without having to buy and paint fifty different variations on the theme. As for the special/heavy weapon troopers, I generally find it easier to have alternate blokes standing around ready to sub-in if required. I find it's easier on the paint too, as the constant changing of weapons on smaller models (in my experience) means it's easier to bump something and take a chip of paint off. Especially when dealing with the metal or resin models.
   
Made in us
Killer Khymerae





Midwest USA

I'm extremely new to WH40K as well. I have Dark Imperium as well as a Tactical Squad of SM. In building the 10 man squad I was challenged by not really being able to tell what the individual weapons are let along what to include :( I'd rather know before hand what each weapon is, and Pro's and Con's for each prior to gluing. Thant information is hard to get for a Noob I suspect.

Bill
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

When I had marines, I did actually have sufficient different weapon types to do a "use X weapon for this, Y weapon for that" options.

I DID have a battle company, though.
52 Bolter marines (6 tac squadsx7 + 2 dev squads of 5)
6 Meltaguns, 6 flamers, 6 plasma guns
6 of each heavy weapon.
Sgts armed with a variety of weapons from basic to vets tooled up.
4 different "captain" models with different gear.
And that was in addition to the 12 drop pods, 12 rhinos, 4 land raiders, 4 vindicators, 2 whirlwinds, 3 predators and 3 razorbacks.

This army was, however, assembled over about 20 years

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Grimoir wrote:
I'm extremely new to WH40K as well. I have Dark Imperium as well as a Tactical Squad of SM. In building the 10 man squad I was challenged by not really being able to tell what the individual weapons are let along what to include :( I'd rather know before hand what each weapon is, and Pro's and Con's for each prior to gluing. Thant information is hard to get for a Noob I suspect.

Bill


Welcome to Dakka and the Space Marines.

What weapon to use, and what targets they work best at is a very heavily debated topic, and changes with each codex drop and edition change. Here is a real quick and dirty overview. The stock 10 man tactical squad has one special, one heavy, the sarge, and 7 guys with basic bolters.

Special weapons:
(Note: there are a lot of variants in specific miniatures for the guns over time, but they should look roughly like the ones below)

From the left
Flamer: Good vs. light infantry, close range, nice defensive perk (helps when you get charged)
Meltagun: Good vs. tanks, very short range
Plasmagun: Good vs. tough infantry and light vehicles. Two fire modes, dangerous to use if you want to get the most out of it (it can overheat and kill you) decent range.
Gravgun: Similar to the plasma, better then low power, but not as good as overcharged. medium range

Heavy weapons:
(again, different looking guns from various kits over the years, especially missile launchers, but should share visual cues with these)

From the left:
Missile Launcher. Jack of all trades, master of none. Flexible, decent range.
Multimelta: Close range anti-tank.
Plasma Cannon: Like the plasmagun, but bigger with better range.
Grav Cannon: again, like it’s smaller brother, a middle of the road version of plasma. Short range
Lascannon: Long range anti-tank
Heavy Bolter: Decent anti-infantry fire. good range, cheep.

The assorted close combat weapons and pistols are for the sarge, as is the combi-weapon (which is a special weapon combined with a bolter). What’s hot, and what’s not for them varies wildly, and would require a lot more effort then I can give right now. One common thought is to give the sarge a combi to match the special in the squad. or just run him bare-bones (bolter, or bolt pistol/chainsword) to keep points down. But I’ve run all sorts of combos with some success. If he’s your first sarge, you might just want to give into your inner fanboy and build him so he looks cool, point efficiency be damned. The pistols are reasonably priced for the first time in a long time, and the power sword is not going to break the bank. Go wild.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/21 00:09:47


   
 
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