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Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






Illinois

And I am concerned for the future of the Imperium.

The final entry in the "Third Tyrannic War" on page 31 of the new Tyranid Codex says that Hive Fleet Leviathan is headed for Terra, and Gorillaman (Ultramarines Primarch) is sending dozens of Primaris Chapters to the front lines. But I fear that this tactic will be completely useless.

In the Battle for Macragge, the Ultramarines suffered heavy casualties, and Calgar almost died. Sure, Behemoth was destroyed, but the Hive Mind probably learned from the tactics that they used against the Ultramarines and is probably ready to use them again (along with new tactics that other Hive Fleets have picked up)

On page 18 of the new Tyranid Codex, Calgar fought The Swarmlord again, and didn't suffer a scratch, but it also says that the Hive Mind "absorbed the Swarmlord's consciousness again, and having learned from its own death, its next reincarnation would prove the most dangerous ever encountered." This is basically bad news for the Imperium.

My question is, what do you think would happen if the Tyranids were to reach Holy Terra? Would Gorillaman destroy the Tyranid race, or would Terra be consumed by the Tyranids, marking the death of the Imperium?

On a side note, the Tyranid Swarm I am building is almost finished.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/13 13:34:50


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Hive fleet behemoth got wrecked at Maccrage.

Hive fleet Kraken got wrecked across several systems but most notably at Ichar IV, Lyandel and Miral.

Hive fleet leviathan has yet to get into a big war I think.

Thing is that the it's a bit missleading because all Tyranid fleets are actually heading for Terra. The Imperium just got lucky that the arrived from other spiral arms then the EoT was located in.

Also we know that not all hive fleets work togheter so it's possible that hive fleets will collide and wipe fight, which of course inevitably would lead to the winning hive fleet emerging with two fleets worth of biomass but would buy the Imperium time.

As to your question the hive fleet as it is now would probably get wrecked by the sol systems defences. It's the single most heavily guarded system in the universe, including Titan (GK homeworld) Mars (Admech homeworld) and of course Terra. It's defences are made up off fleets, a full chapter (Imperial fists), the entire officio assasinorum, the legio Custodes, the titan legions of mars, the GK, the sol fleet, the Inquisition headquarters military and the fleets and army of nearby systems. As it is now I don't fancy Leviathans chances. If leviathan was to devour everything on it's way from where it is now to Terra then it stands a pretty good chance of wiping out humanity methinks, which is exactly what Guilliman is probably trying to prevent.

Speaking of which during the second tyrranic war (vs kraken) Inquisitor Kryptman deviced his tactic of evacuating worlds and then exterminatusing them before the Tyranids could absorb them. I wonder if Guilliman will do the same. It's a very costly strategy but desperate times...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/12 23:25:03


His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
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Norn Queen






 Nerak wrote:
Hive fleet behemoth got wrecked at Maccrage.


In space. On the ground Behemoth completely fethed over Macragge. It was only when the hive ships were defeated/driven off and the constant supply of organisms was cut short that the tide began to turn on macragge.

Hive fleet Kraken got wrecked across several systems but most notably at Ichar IV, Lyandel and Miral.


Ichar 4 was the same. And Lyanden, and Miral. Notice a pattern?

Hive fleet leviathan has yet to get into a big war I think.


Leviathan has had the biggest space faring hive fleet tendrils thus far. And it's answered the only way anyone has managed to stop the tyranids in any engagement before it. The Baal System is all but completely consumed with the Blood Angles and almost all their successor chapters (only one didn't make it to the fight) being near extinction at this point. Many of their successors just don't exist. Then there is the battle in Octarious, where Leviathan has been in a non stop slug fest with the Orks in one of if not the biggest battle the Orks have ever engaged in. Certainly the most constant. Orks from all over the galaxy poor in to this fight because it's the greatest fight of any of their life times. Then there is the absolutely massive tendril heading for Terra. A few dozen SM chapters, several fleets of the imperial navy and all kinds of gak have been fighting that tendril through the last couple editions of the game. They have been doing everything they can to slow it down, and it hasn't noticably slowed while absorbing planet after planet and all the fallen biomass from the fleets of ships they have been trying to stop it with. The primaris support is a hail mary back up that Robby G. is sending them and they desperately need.

Leviathan has answered the only way Tyranids have been fought back by bringing bigger and more hive ships to the fight then anyone has had to deal with as yet. If you can't stop the hive ships there is nothing you can do to stop the ground forces.

Thing is that the it's a bit missleading because all Tyranid fleets are actually heading for Terra. The Imperium just got lucky that the arrived from other spiral arms then the EoT was located in.

Also we know that not all hive fleets work togheter so it's possible that hive fleets will collide and wipe fight, which of course inevitably would lead to the winning hive fleet emerging with two fleets worth of biomass but would buy the Imperium time.


This is also false. The imperium has several theories about why some hive fleets fight when they meet. Including that they are testing strategies against itself or sharing gathered DNA amongst the hive ships by devouring them. Hive Fleets are a category made up by the imperium to track the clusters of hive ships moving about and identify them. There is only one hive mind that controls all nids.

As to your question the hive fleet as it is now would probably get wrecked by the sol systems defences. It's the single most heavily guarded system in the universe, including Titan (GK homeworld) Mars (Admech homeworld) and of course Terra. It's defences are made up off fleets, a full chapter (Imperial fists), the entire officio assasinorum, the legio Custodes, the titan legions of mars, the GK, the sol fleet, the Inquisition headquarters military and the fleets and army of nearby systems. As it is now I don't fancy Leviathans chances. If leviathan was to devour everything on it's way from where it is now to Terra then it stands a pretty good chance of wiping out humanity methinks, which is exactly what Guilliman is probably trying to prevent.

Speaking of which during the second tyrranic war (vs kraken) Inquisitor Kryptman deviced his tactic of evacuating worlds and then exterminatusing them before the Tyranids could absorb them. I wonder if Guilliman will do the same. It's a very costly strategy but desperate times...


Kryptman did that vs leviathan, not kraken. It's what turned the tendril of leviathan toward octarius instead of terra. With how face orks repopulate Leviathan has been growing fat on the biomass gathered from that endless conflict and has adapted many new tactics and adaptations to match the orks. If that tendril wins and turns towards terra it will be the biggest single cluster of anyone has seen. Everyone is fethed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 00:33:15



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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If a hive fleet reached terra it would be crushed. The might of the imperium is too focused there for a single hive fleet to have much of an impact. But that isn't the problem. It's not even that the second, third, or fourth hive fleet to hit terra will be a problem. It's when the bulk of the galaxy has been hollowed out by main fleets & splinter fleets, and the tyranids are attacking terra for the 10th or 12th time. That's when there will be a serious problem.

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Vigo. Spain.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If a hive fleet reached terra it would be crushed. The might of the imperium is too focused there for a single hive fleet to have much of an impact. But that isn't the problem. It's not even that the second, third, or fourth hive fleet to hit terra will be a problem. It's when the bulk of the galaxy has been hollowed out by main fleets & splinter fleets, and the tyranids are attacking terra for the 10th or 12th time. That's when there will be a serious problem.


Nah man, until the 13th one we are safe.

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SoCal

 Galas wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If a hive fleet reached terra it would be crushed. The might of the imperium is too focused there for a single hive fleet to have much of an impact. But that isn't the problem. It's not even that the second, third, or fourth hive fleet to hit terra will be a problem. It's when the bulk of the galaxy has been hollowed out by main fleets & splinter fleets, and the tyranids are attacking terra for the 10th or 12th time. That's when there will be a serious problem.


Nah man, until the 13th one we are safe.


Swarmaddon?

Do Pariahs and Necron Pylons disrupt the Hive Mind?

   
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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Galas wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If a hive fleet reached terra it would be crushed. The might of the imperium is too focused there for a single hive fleet to have much of an impact. But that isn't the problem. It's not even that the second, third, or fourth hive fleet to hit terra will be a problem. It's when the bulk of the galaxy has been hollowed out by main fleets & splinter fleets, and the tyranids are attacking terra for the 10th or 12th time. That's when there will be a serious problem.


Nah man, until the 13th one we are safe.


Swarmaddon?

Do Pariahs and Necron Pylons disrupt the Hive Mind?


They're the high power torch to the shadow of the warp
   
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Cheyenne WY

The Hive Fleets are simply trying to return the four armed Emp to his rightful place, and cast down the false corpse that currently resides there....

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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Galas wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If a hive fleet reached terra it would be crushed. The might of the imperium is too focused there for a single hive fleet to have much of an impact. But that isn't the problem. It's not even that the second, third, or fourth hive fleet to hit terra will be a problem. It's when the bulk of the galaxy has been hollowed out by main fleets & splinter fleets, and the tyranids are attacking terra for the 10th or 12th time. That's when there will be a serious problem.


Nah man, until the 13th one we are safe.


Swarmaddon?

Do Pariahs and Necron Pylons disrupt the Hive Mind?

No, the hive mind is not a warp entity. The shadow is a side effect of what the nids do, not directly what they are doing.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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Let's see. In one corner we have designated mook faction #2, and in the other corner we have specific faction of the poster child faction upon which GW is pushing like mad.

Gee, I really don't know which one to hedge my bets on.

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The End Time story for 40K has already been pretty much written in the early days of hte 3rd eddition. Basically Abaddon launches the greatest Black Crusade ever seen, Eldar Phoenix Lord unite all Eldars for one last stand as the Webway crumbles on itself. The forces of Chaos and the Imperium duke it out in a gigantic war. The forces of Chaos destroy for all intend and purpose the Imperium, but are sealed away thanks to Eldars and Necron sacrifice and finally, the Tyranid come and eat the remaining forces in the galaxy which enjoys one last apocalyptic battle courtesy of the united orks. The only thing we don't know is exactly how all of this will play out. It's very probable that Leviathan will not reach Terra before Abaddon kills the Emperor and possibly Guilliman before himself being killed in the process. When Leviathan arrives, it's just to put the last nail in the coffin and make sure there is no real "victor" between Chaos and the Imperium. The 40K story line is pretty much structure like a classic tragedy with heroes as mighty as gods that live and die in glorious over the top fashion and in the end it ends badly for everyone villains and heroes destroy each other and the world belongs to no one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 05:59:38


 
   
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I.E. Nids are gunna win. Go report to your nearest GSC patriarch and join the winning team today.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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Long term: Nids win barring some deus ex machina like the Silent King turning up and being all "I have developed a nanovirus that spreads through the synapse web and kills everything hurrah lets have cake".

The fluff says they've eaten 12 galaxies before ours so the amount of biomass they have is incalculable. Its not a matter of if, just when.

Short term: Nah, nothing to worry about. Nids play the long game. It'll be millenia before they're even close to taking Terra.


 
   
Made in ca
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British Columbia

Sounds to me like it's mostly setting up a new Primaris DNA based unit of Nids somewhere down the line after they stop the tendril.

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SoCal

 Lance845 wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Galas wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If a hive fleet reached terra it would be crushed. The might of the imperium is too focused there for a single hive fleet to have much of an impact. But that isn't the problem. It's not even that the second, third, or fourth hive fleet to hit terra will be a problem. It's when the bulk of the galaxy has been hollowed out by main fleets & splinter fleets, and the tyranids are attacking terra for the 10th or 12th time. That's when there will be a serious problem.


Nah man, until the 13th one we are safe.


Swarmaddon?

Do Pariahs and Necron Pylons disrupt the Hive Mind?

No, the hive mind is not a warp entity. The shadow is a side effect of what the nids do, not directly what they are doing.


Where in the fluff is that stated? I've always heard the Tyranids were warp based in their psychic and synaptic powers.

   
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 Sim-Life wrote:
Long term: Nids win barring some deus ex machina like the Silent King turning up and being all "I have developed a nanovirus that spreads through the synapse web and kills everything hurrah lets have cake".

The fluff says they've eaten 12 galaxies before ours so the amount of biomass they have is incalculable. Its not a matter of if, just when.

Short term: Nah, nothing to worry about. Nids play the long game. It'll be millenia before they're even close to taking Terra.


Which is why I find tyranids rather boring army fluffwise. It's basically reverse deus-ex-machina.

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Regular Dakkanaut





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Galas wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If a hive fleet reached terra it would be crushed. The might of the imperium is too focused there for a single hive fleet to have much of an impact. But that isn't the problem. It's not even that the second, third, or fourth hive fleet to hit terra will be a problem. It's when the bulk of the galaxy has been hollowed out by main fleets & splinter fleets, and the tyranids are attacking terra for the 10th or 12th time. That's when there will be a serious problem.


Nah man, until the 13th one we are safe.


Swarmaddon?

Do Pariahs and Necron Pylons disrupt the Hive Mind?

No, the hive mind is not a warp entity. The shadow is a side effect of what the nids do, not directly what they are doing.


Where in the fluff is that stated? I've always heard the Tyranids were warp based in their psychic and synaptic powers.


At least in the older codexes (don't have the newest) their "psychic" was described as focusing the will of the hive mind and not actually using the warp.
   
Made in nl
Elite Tyranid Warrior




 Lance845 wrote:

Kryptman did that vs leviathan, not kraken. It's what turned the tendril of leviathan toward octarius instead of terra.


This is also false The cordon of exterminatussed worlds was a delaying/weakening tactic. Kryptman actually captured some Genestealers in a high-risk mission, put them in stasis and sent them off to the Orktarius empire. A big Genestealer cult quickly took root as a result of this, and their beacon drew that tendril of Leviathan to the Orks (this is called Kryptman's gambit, and is in essence also a delaying tactic). I love it when fluff characters apply common sense.
   
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 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
And I am concerned for the future of the Imperium.

The final entry in the "Third Tyrannic War" on page 31 of the new Tyranid Codex says that Hive Fleet Leviathan is headed for Terra, and Gorillaman (Ultramarines Primarch) is sending dozens of Primaris Chapters to the front lines. But I fear that this tactic will be completely useless.


Wait, I thought Leviathan was pretty much destroyed or MIA after Guilliman and Khorne saved the Blood Angels?
   
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West Yorkshire

Despite popular view in this, I think it would be a much harder battle than people expect. Yes, the imperium has a huge amount of defences around there, so if a lone fleet attacks, it would be decimated, a combination of 2 or 3 fleets would pose much greater threat. The Grey Knights would be largely hindered by the SITW. There may be a real possibility of the AdMech abandoning ship if they deemed potential losses too great, half of the Assassinorum temple would be largely irrelevant (Vindicares and Eversors would presumably be effective, but there's only so many.) Nearby systems would presumably be attacked first and even those that weren't may not even react in time due to the SITW drowning out the astronomicon. Basically, as soon as the assault starts, Whatever forces are there is all you will likely get barring extreme fortune or deus ex machina.

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Tristanleo wrote:
Despite popular view in this, I think it would be a much harder battle than people expect. Yes, the imperium has a huge amount of defences around there, so if a lone fleet attacks, it would be decimated, a combination of 2 or 3 fleets would pose much greater threat. The Grey Knights would be largely hindered by the SITW. There may be a real possibility of the AdMech abandoning ship if they deemed potential losses too great, half of the Assassinorum temple would be largely irrelevant (Vindicares and Eversors would presumably be effective, but there's only so many.) Nearby systems would presumably be attacked first and even those that weren't may not even react in time due to the SITW drowning out the astronomicon. Basically, as soon as the assault starts, Whatever forces are there is all you will likely get barring extreme fortune or deus ex machina.


Well tyranids are unlikely to be able to sneak assault Terra...What with main method of travel slower than warp travel and even that unusable near planets so decades long approach is not uncommon. You don't think Terra might not just you know...call for aid in advance? If lesser planets call help and get regiments of IG in preparation of tyranid assault one would presume Terra would be getting some help as well!

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tneva82 wrote:
Tristanleo wrote:
Despite popular view in this, I think it would be a much harder battle than people expect. Yes, the imperium has a huge amount of defences around there, so if a lone fleet attacks, it would be decimated, a combination of 2 or 3 fleets would pose much greater threat. The Grey Knights would be largely hindered by the SITW. There may be a real possibility of the AdMech abandoning ship if they deemed potential losses too great, half of the Assassinorum temple would be largely irrelevant (Vindicares and Eversors would presumably be effective, but there's only so many.) Nearby systems would presumably be attacked first and even those that weren't may not even react in time due to the SITW drowning out the astronomicon. Basically, as soon as the assault starts, Whatever forces are there is all you will likely get barring extreme fortune or deus ex machina.


Well tyranids are unlikely to be able to sneak assault Terra...What with main method of travel slower than warp travel and even that unusable near planets so decades long approach is not uncommon. You don't think Terra might not just you know...call for aid in advance? If lesser planets call help and get regiments of IG in preparation of tyranid assault one would presume Terra would be getting some help as well!


That is true, but there's the matter of planning it, I completely agree that it will be the long, slow road to Terra as any attempt at starting a cult would be quashed in no time (Or so you would expect) so that means that Terra would have to have the reinforcements arrive exactly on time for best logistical value (and we've all seen how well that works at times ). you can't just have a large force sat around for 10 years waiting for them to arrive as those men are needed on other fronts. Then there's the SITW, you have to be there before it smothers the astronomicon and blunts any reinforcement attempts. The important battles would be fought in the outlying worlds and in the space above Terra however as if the Tyranids ever come to control the space battle, that is when the war will be lost in my opinion.

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If Terra came under threat chances are the Imperium would pull every force it could to defend the Emperor and the seat of mankind.

It would actually be a neat way to basically strip the Imperium of Man of most of its armed forces; thus letting many of the lesser races get a stronger foothold. At present introducing new races is kinda tricky because the Imperium is everywhere and 100% xenophobic.

A huge cataclysmic battle with Chaos charging in to try and take advantage; with Tyranids charging for the beacon that is the Emperor; with The Imperium defending against all and with Orks coming because it will be the biggest WAAAARGH ever!

That would systematically clash all of the most numerous factions into one big war. An ideal time to basically cripple them all at once. That would leave more room for other minor factions to get a stronger foothold and also to allow the uprising of a few newer ones. As well as a new "fallen marines" chapter of course (because everything gets a new marine chapter)

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Well there already are many many many regiments on there, titan legions, battlefleet solar which itself is one of the most powerful fleets Imperium has, some space marines.

Necrons sent out fleet. One got through to mars soil and was destroyed there within minutes.

Seeing importance of Terra(take that out, humans are dead dead dead dead dead) you can bet they WILL have armies there in advance. Other fronts hardly matter if Terra falls as that's it. Good bye for humans.

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Pet theory - Tyranids have always said to be jumping Galaxy to Galaxy consuming all in their path and its generally agreed that the Emperior acts like a huge beacon to them at present; drawing them into the Galaxy.

Some have wondered if the Tyranids are not just consuming worlds; but fleeing something else that's deadly. Could be that its not so much the Emperor draws them, but also draws that which they fear most; hence a desire to silence the Emperor so that the Swarm can feed in peace on the Galaxy; since any sane invasion by the Tyranids would have them remain on the outer ring longer and building up ever more powerful fleets than simply charging into the interior.

It actually gives a good reason for why the Tyranids are so focused on getting to the Emperor, since the Hive Mind is not shown to be stupid and thus even if the Emperor attracts the Tyranids attention it makes no sense for them to rush the invasion and keep getting pushed back. As sane approach would be to nom the outer rings, consume them and build a vast fleet that is basically unstoppable.

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Sim-Life wrote:Long term: Nids win barring some deus ex machina like the Silent King turning up and being all "I have developed a nanovirus that spreads through the synapse web and kills everything hurrah lets have cake".

The fluff says they've eaten 12 galaxies before ours so the amount of biomass they have is incalculable. Its not a matter of if, just when.

Short term: Nah, nothing to worry about. Nids play the long game. It'll be millenia before they're even close to taking Terra.


Where in the fluff does it say that the Tyranids have eaten 12 galaxies before ours? I must have missed it if it's in the new Codex.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also how fast do the Hive Fleets travel? Is it like Star Trek warp speed? Or is it slower than, say, Warp 6? Or what?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 13:36:20


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 Sim-Life wrote:


The fluff says they've eaten 12 galaxies before ours so the amount of biomass they have is incalculable. Its not a matter of if, just when.

In fairness they could have lost a lot of biomass crossing the void between galaxies.

Plus the technology level of the Milky Way factions may be considerably greater than those the Tyranids have previously devoured.
   
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UK

As all Tyranid fluff is written from the viewpoint of studies done on them after their invasion there's basically nothing but guesswork and theories as regard to their activities prior to the invasion of the Galaxy. They might have eaten billions of galaxies; might have vast swarms out there in the cold void; they might take billions of years to cover the distance between or could take decades with some strange travel methods.

It's not even fixed that Norn Queens and hive-ships are the upper limit of the swarm. The Tyranids could just be a tiny exploratory tendril of a vast megafleet the like of which no mane could imagine.

That's one of the great things about Tyranids - almost everything is a mystery!

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