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can I get a couple of lookovers to see if anyone spots any problems with this list from a legality standpoint? need to confirm it for a tournament tmrw.

listed points and power level.

basic idea is to sit two shadowswords with two big conscript bubble wraps. hide my commanders in there letting me use the relic and warlord trait to farm mine/opponent CP on a 5+

the other commander holds the relic of lost cadia to let the shadowswords reroll hits and wounds of 1 (or everything against chaos) once.

the astropath with Tuk'Sah takes the bullgryns into reserve. casts psychic barrier on them with Take Cover stratagem for a 2++ from reserve.

The last astropath walks up directly behind the shadowsword casting -1 to hit on it. may also dump 20 conscripts in the tank if I don't need a super huge screen.



SUPER HEAVY DETACHMENT 3CP
Regiment - Cadian

LORDS OF WAR
Shadowsword 410 26
Twin Heavy Bolter and Hunter Killer

Shadowsword 404 26
Twin Heavy Bolter

Stormlord 652 26
2 Lascannon/Heavy Flamer
2 Heavy Stubbers
Twin heavy Bolter

AUXILARY SUPPORT DETACHMENT -1 CP
Eversor Assassin 70 4


Points Power
VANGUARD DETACHMENT 1CP
Regiment - Cadian

HQ
Company Commander - Warlord 31 2
Master Commander
Bolt Pistol, Kurov's Aquila

Company Commander 31 2
Bolt Pistol, Relic of Lost Cadia

TROOPS
20 Conscripts 60 3
20 Conscripts 60 3

ELITES
Astropath 15 1
Nightshroud, Laspistol, Dagger of Tuk'Sah

Astropath 15 1
Nightshroud, Laspistol

6 Bullgryns 252 14
Brute Shields, Bullgryn Mauls

Doesnt look like a fun list to play against :-)

Just remember that, as soon as the conscripts are gone (which will be after turn 1) your tanks will propably be charged. So leave a few inch for them to fall back so they can shoot freely.

Believe me, you dont want to get charged by assault terminators or something alike without a place to fall back. The heavy bolter/flamer will only get you so far...

It's been a lot of tweaking to get it perfect!
Added a second squad of conscripts for that reason.

I set them up in two lines so you've really got to go through both units.

But with that said a tank is doing 9 attacks hitting on 2 at s9 ap2 dmg d3 with a stratagem.

Plus overarching with a volcano cannon on a 5 with another stratagem. They're ruthless in combat too.

While this looks like a static gunline it's actually not. First two turns i hide and shoot and then everyone rolls out and drives into whatever I can find.

I've tested 4 games and won 3 of them by devastating margins.

The one I lost was because I deployed in a bad spot and realized my tanks couldn't fit through terrain so I got pinched. That will probably be the biggest issue but we'll see!

Relic of Cadia Plus the vengeance for Cadia stratagems will make quick work of magnus/morty lists. Solid chance to shoot them both down on turn one, pretty much guaranteed by turn 2.

Only thing i'll ask is - is the Astropath an "OFFICER"? Not got my codex yet, due to my baneblade still being stuck "on order" :(

Cos if not, he can't take the dagger relic due to it being FAQ'd to INFANTRY OFFICER only.

Also, curious question, with only 2CP spare after using the take cover on the bullgryns, how are you finding your flexibility in terms of their use?

Wish you the best of luck in the event though.

Interesting, he is not an officer. I'll have to tweak who takes what relics since I've only got two officers. Good catch!

I haven't used the invul bullgryns yet but even with normal saves they were super great. With the cp factory list I'm having no issues with cp


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reviewed it and missed that in the faq. Means I'll only be able to take relics on the two commanders. Always taking the aquila.

Will take relic of Cadia if I'm facing a nasty magnus/morty list where I want a turn of devastating firepower to hit and wound. If I think the mission calls for infiltrate I can do that instead with the dagger.

Thanks for the catch!

The tournament requires I pick wargear and powers before and they last the whole weekend but this is a stratagem letting me add extra relics so I'm safe. My chosen relic will stay as the aquila and I'll cycle the other two as needed.

so a couple of questions.. i run a similar 3 Titanic list with 2 Stormlords and a Transport.

Flamer sponsons.. expensive and i have found they struggle to get back points. I have actally ditched sponsons for more things. Maybe a command squad full of plasma that can ride in the stormlord.

Have you considered trying the Banehammer ? S8 shots means you are rolling 2+ to wound on almost everything.
What really makes the Tremor cannon shine is its ability to half movement and prevent advancing of the unit you shoot at.. i have found this to be a huge advantage.

Transport capacity is smaller but it doesnt look like you are transporting much.

ShadowSwords are just great. they delete pretty much whatever they shoot at.

How do you fit in the Eversor ? not sure how the assasin works in this list ? is it worth the points.. im sort of interested in how it functions.

Going Battalion.
you could shave 20 pts somewhere and run 2 bare bones troop units and a Conscript squad and now you have 2 more CPs

Why Nightshrowd on both astropaths ? why not add Psychic barrier to one and now a unit can get -1 to hit and +1 save ?.

Bullgryns... how do they fit in the list ? counter assault ? aggressive assault from the Stormlord ?

Infantry Cadians.. how do you find that regiment working for this list ? i have been trying out Mordians for the extra leadership and counter strike abilities. Also the "Form firing squad" order comes in very handy when targeting characters.

I am still trying out regiments for my super heavies. recently its been Catachen and Tallern. I still want to see if Cadian and Valhallan might be better ?

good questions. I usually buy stuff used but in this case couldn't find any so I bought them outright and it cleaned me out. now that theyre all painted I doubt id change one over but it may be worth looking at the Banehammer for future options.

while I don't explicitly say I will use transport in this list, I do expect to use it at least once. I will only double-bubble wrap the conscripts if im facing a brutal alpha strike list. if im careful I can even make sure someone cant get within 24" to plasma me. can definitely make sure someone cant charge me on turn one and usually on turn 2.

BUT if someone isn't going to alpha strike me I will often keep 20 conscripts in the stormlord and then have it deliver them midfield to help support an objective with bodies.

agree on the shadowswords.. they're ridiculous. and for 400 or so points I don't think anything matches them. the volcano cannon is reliable and you can expect to usually get about 4 hits through on something. should translate to 3-4 wounds on ANYTHING you shoot at.. considering youre ignoring all armour saves (basically.. -5 ap) and 2d6 damage per shot.. its a great tank. I faced an alpha legion army with no vehicles and the volcano cannons still did work killing havocs and other units that could hurt me. shoot a volcano cannon at a squad of 5-10 guys across the board and you know youre going to hurt them.

I didn't feel the need for sponsons on the shadowswords since they tend to hang very far back. the lascannons and heavy bolters are too unreliable and don't do enough damage considering the cost.

on the other hand, the stormlord pushes up so while its expensive to run 4 sponsons of heavy flamers.. its a huge huge bonus. huge range, (10" move and 8" flame) and on average about 28 hits at s5 ap1.. that's awful. the tank is almost impossible to charge because of the overwatch. the flamers are amazing against negative hit armies which are a real bane to my shadowswords (pardon the pun)

if im going to run sponsons I figured id put them all on one basket.

also never forget how useful the tanks are in close combat if you give it the Crush Them stratagem. every game has seen me surprise an opponent by just backing the tank over a unit sent to kill it and then driving away and shooting something else.


this list is made of catachan models (and was using catachan rules until I decided to go cadian). my eversor is a Sly Marbo conversion for cool points. for 70 points hes a great character killer, and a real pain to deal with. ill often use him alongside infiltrating bullgryns (dagger) who will be buffed to a 2++ if I can get an astropath near them (hide one in the stormlord and have him jump out).

now you cant shoot the assassin, he can cause a real mess. I take him as an auxillary detachment at -1 cp.

I don't need a battalion really for more CP.. im starting the game with 6 but I get mine back on a 5+ and I take the warlord trait to get CP when my opponent uses them on a 5+. I haven't run out yet.

I haven't run the bullgryns with the 2++... well see how they do in the tournament. im not the wisest player so I expect to misuse them but typically the plan would be to infiltrate them and buff to cause havoc. now that I cant cast use the dagger on a psyker that doesn't work. still.. I can always infiltrate halfway up the board on a turn where the astropath can get into range to cast the spell.

I took nightshroud on both astropaths because its SO good. when one of them dies, I want to make sure the other one can still have it. psychic barrier is sweet too, but most guns im scared of don't care about +1 to save on the tanks.

-1 to hit on a stormlord means I can move it up out of the bubble and dare scions to drop plasma attack it. in a test game my friend dropped 3 command plasma squads and 2 regular squads and probably lost a 3 of his guys to overheats on the 2 instead of the 1.

as far as infantry I cant really say.. conscripts I usually don't even remember to shoot with. they are only there to die and get in the way (I sound like a commissar).

my display board is a desert with a sarlacc pit.. was supposed to be a tallarn army before they changed to not allow 3 infiltrating superheavies.

catachan is HUGELY beneficial to the stormlord to reroll one dice on each twin heavy flamer for shots. its useful on the shadowswords too but not game breaking.. usually got me one extra shot per turn.

with catachan you can take harker to give rerolls of 1.. but when he dies or you move away that is gone. plus you have to deply right on top of each other to get the bonus. staying stationary as cadian gives me the same bonus but lets me deploy in two corners and use one squad of conscripts to screen each.

I liked catachan for the strength bonus and attack bonus from straken for bullgryns...

until I realized they don't count as catachan so I cant make them 5 attacks (with a priest) and s8 lol.

lastly.. Cadia has two HUGE perks

1. relic of lost cadia is a game changer against magnus or mortarion. reroll all hits and wounds with 2 shadowswords and a stormlord? magnus is toast in one turn, even with changeling. theres a solid chance of killing them both in a turn.

2. cadian stratagem overlapping fields of fire is also huge. 2 cp isn't cheap but if you need to kill something and your list is faming CP anyways (which really.. every guard list should be doing. its the best warlord trait by a mile) then its not a big deal. have the stormlord unload into magnus if needed.. get one wound through.. and now everything else is hitting him at +1 rerolling 1s for stationary.. that's awesome.

plus.. if my opponent plays defensive with magnus (not likely) and doesn't guard the changeling well then my eversor is almost guaranteed to appear and get the charge to kill him. that's why I like the eversor so much.. the 3d6 charge means he has a great chance to kill a character left exposed.


long winded answer... im a new guard player but I LOVE this book. every unit is useable and combos well. ive played weak codexes for years and its nice to be playing something not only strong but also fun, fluffy and flexible.


I just finished reading Shadowsword so my next list will probly be 2 shadowswords, stormlord and a baneblade.

but that will not do well against serious opponents lol

yea .. i was running my Banehammer with 4 flamer sponsons. loaded with 3 command squads of Plasma guys. I found the result to be sort of a mixed bag. My opponents would focus so heavily on that tank that the flamers almost never did anything. Using a different regiment on it might work.. i tried Tallern with mixed results as well.

I found that i could use the 200pts better (brought in Celestine) and now the Banehammer actually gets to where i need it to dump rapid fire shots into my opponent.
(i use the mordian order to plasma characters.. has been very good so far)

Never ran my tanks as Cadian so im going to try that out. Still will more than likely keep the infantry as mordian for now. I like the added leadership and overwatch... but the mordian order to be able to target Characters with rapid fire weapons is amazing.

Looking at your use of assasins in the list got me thinking about the culexus. I play against alot of psychic shenanigan lists. and im thinking a Culexus might work wonders. Going to test it out to see how that works.

Good luck with your army !

After the tournament (I placed 20 out of 90, took one stupid loss in game 1 because I'm dumb, had full points in next 3 games, game 5 I one shotted magnus and almost tabled but lost 21-19 because I couldn't shoot the brimstones and the worthwhile objectives weren't in my half) I have to agree with the Banehammer

For all the reasons you said it's way better than the stormlord
Shadowswords kicked ass. Never needed two tho

I'm dropping to one shadowsword, 2 Banehammer with flames, 4x5 ratling snipers, 2 eversors and a culuxes.

If love to fit celestine but can't find the points

My stormlord saved my add every game. It's unchargable with the flamers and they deal with hit modifier armies.

Even on its last wound it's still just as effective.

ok..wow. So a big change to your list then to gain the flamers on both Banehammers very interesting. im assuming the Bullgryns are going back on the shelf.

I might be tempted to go back to all flamer sponsons to see the results. maybe overloading on them (8 total) is the way to go ? who knows..would like to see those results.

BTW i switched over to full CADIA the last few games.. and i must admit the Regimental rules/Strategems and the Relic just are so darn good. Last night i played against ALpha legion and its was almost an unfair game. I one shotted his Magnus turn 1 and removed his StormEagle with the second Shadowsword.

Culexus was great shutting down Chaos powers. im tempted to go with 2 of them... however i want to try the Eversor.

I ran a spearhead detatchment to bring in 6 morter teams which work great when near the relic..reroll all hits and wounds. Brims go bye bye.

never missed the lack of CP due to the other relic and Trait.

I did find that after the 2 big units were gone the Shadow sword struggled to find targets.. however they did go after other multi wound units.

If your going to run a second Banehammer.. check out the Doomhammer. Same transport capacity but fewr shots and possibly more damage due to s10 -5 ap D6 wounds that allow 2 dice if at 30 or less inches. Its a Shadowsword lite with transport capacity.

Im wondering if Tallern might be best for the Superheavy detatchement. Not sure if Cadia is necessary.. but it might be situational. To be able to keep those auto hitting burner tanks moving at full speed might be the best... plus they can move advance and shoot now.

Im going to try some of these ideas out. i have a tourny in 2 weeks.

BTW... how did your tournament rule on the Cadian Relic ? did they allow you to use it mulitple times or only once ? could you unveil it during overwatch ?

only once for the relic, none of the janky multi use business.
cant unveil during overwatch as far as I know but that never came up.

never needed to when using the stratagem to hit on a 5+ for overwatch.

I really think if taking 3 superheavies the way to go is 1 shadowsword and 2 other. the doomhammer seems fine but I don't need transport capacity. your idea about the banehammer gun got me thinking.

after using the stormlord for the tournament I realized that it was my MVP but NOT because of the transport or Vulcan gun. it was the double flame sponsons. theyre expensive yes.. but insanely good. (the 4 lascannon shots is also nothing to sneeze at).

the banehammer gun is tough enough to kill anything of note other than knights or maybe primarchs quickly. taking one shadowsword fixes that problem. as you said.. 2 shadowswords is an expensive overkill investment. I never had a scenario where I was thinking 'im sure glad I have two of these' unless it was a case where I foolishly let one die.

the movement handicap on the banehammer is so awesome and it still has range and a ton of shots so I think it will end up doing a lot of good. tallarn is ok for superheavy in my opinion but I also never felt the need to advance and shoot. usually the boards were too congested to get a ton of movement anyways. im sticking with catachan because of rerolling the flame dice.

while relic of lost cadia is sweet, the stratagem Vengeance for Cadia is just as good and using it every turn against chaos will have the same end result.

as for assassins I wouldn't recommend running one eversor. he was useless on his own. I like the idea of running 3-4 supported by a culuxes.. the shooting modifier means the cul can stand up front and soak everything. then multiple eversors shooting pistols at 4 good shots each and 8 attacks on the charge can actually kill targets.

one eversor was getting nothing done on his own. 3 of them throwing melta bombs and charging in close will probably clear out manticores etc.

im super pumped on this new list... 2 should help and 20 ratlings will really help neuter characters. I thought about adding 2 vindicares but the movement screen of the ratling on turn 1 is just so useful.

yea.. the banehammer slowing down units was awsome.. IMHO very under rated. i was looking at 2 Evisors with the Culexus. only problem i see is some sort of screening unit to push back deep striking units.

Went up against Scion heavy / basalisk/manticore heavy list and found i need a screen. Wouldnt want the assasins having to deploy in the back to make a gap since they need to go forward.

could run a unit of conscripts or was looking at 3 morter units. big bases spread out make a huge gap

Conscripts are great for it. That's why I'm taking ratlings. Deploying outside of my deployment zone but 18" away from my models means there is no space outside of 9 in between. Just gotta watch for warp time drops and celestine etc