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Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

Hey there!

What do you guys think is the best loadout for devs?
I am thinking about 4 Missilelaunchers, because of their tactical flexibility.
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




Either Missilelaunchers or lascannon.
   
Made in nz
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




Aeri wrote:
Hey there!

What do you guys think is the best loadout for devs?
I am thinking about 4 Missilelaunchers, because of their tactical flexibility.


I'm no expert on Marines, but missile launchers seem a bit weak at either role to me.

if you use the frag missiles against infantry, all you are really getting is about 7 marines worth of bolter rapid fire on average at a fairly expensive cost. If you use krak missiles against tough targets, they aren't too bad, but you are still far inferior to lascannons.
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




Tampa, FL

I know this answer sucks... but it depends.

I will elaborate so please excuse the length. I find that there are 5 basic loadouts I will use for my devastators depending on their purpose and the rest of my list. I play mostly infantry lists generally so I run a lot of Devs. I will list the loadouts from most common to least common in my lists.

3 Lascannons 1 Plasma Cannon: This is my go to. I will usually run 2 of these squads in a general Gunline or TAC style list. The lascannons give me the anti tank I need without running Preds or Dreads, and the Plasma Cannon is wonderful with +1 to hit, which you can give it every turn with the Signum. I usually run mine with ablative wounds depending on points to keep them alive longer. There isn't much in the way of downsides to this loadout unless your opponent has zero monsters or vehicles.

2 Grav-cannons 2 Multi-meltas Combi-melta on the Sergeant: This is my go to loadout if I am using a Drop Pod, Lias, or want close range fire support with Strike from the Shadows. These guys will put the hurt on pretty much anything and really affect how your opponent deploys. A concern is that if they know what they are doing and have the models they can deploy in such a way as to keep your options limited as to targets making them less useful unless you have them in a pod or with Lias and can delay them coming in. The combis are usually the first thing I will cut if I need the points also.

3 Missile Launchers 1 Plasma Cannon: Much as with the Lascannons this is a simple loadout, and generally is useful if you don't have the models for more Lascannons or you have plenty of Lascannons and want to have the flexibility of shooting hordes too. The downside to this loadout is that it pays extra for its flexibility. Kraks are generally worse than Lascannons at big stuff, and Frags are generally worse than Heavy Bolters or Grav at killing the little stuff.

4 Grav-cannons: This is pretty good at killing most things. I would argue that it is better than the Missile option, but at worse range. Range and cost are the two main downsides, though variable damage is something to consider as well. Another expensive, versatile option that sacrifices range for better specialization against infantry.

4 Heavy Bolters - This is the go to if you subscribe to the idea that 1 Lascannon team and 1 Heavy Bolter team is better than 2 Missile teams. I use them typically in place of Tac Squads and Intercessors if I am skipping the Battalion. Great screening units and good at killing infantry for their price. The biggest downside is that there are better anti light infantry options through other platforms.

Hope that helps and I'm happy to answer any questions you have. Cheers!
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Lascannons or Grav-Cannons. If you run the numbers Grav-Cannons are better against vehicles than Lascannons, better than HPCs against MEQ/TEQ, and better than Heavy Bolters against light infantry. Having 4 shots and a -3 modifier is really good.

All you have to do is get them closer, but imo it's worth it. In my armies I tend to take one squad with Lascannons that hangs back, and one squad with Grav that pushes forward.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/15 00:48:31


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




4 lascannons. 3 lascannons and a plasma cannon is an acceptable alternative. 4 multimeltas for deep strike or transport shenanigans. Lascannons is the general answer though.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Missile Launchers are bad this edition. Unless you houserule the D6 hits to 2D3 they are worthless.

You want 3 Lascannon and 1 Plasma Cannon. The use of a Signium with the Plasma Cannon means that you can roll a 1 to hit and not overheat. You'll still miss (because a natural 1 always misses regardless of modifiers) but you won't overheat because the roll is still a 2.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/15 00:58:59


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I think it is important to remember the power of ablative wounds.

I try to run 2 heavy weapons, a heavy bolter, bolter, chainsword sarge and a cherub. Makes your guys much harder to remove (hitting on a 3+ wounding on a 3+ saving on a 4+ takes 10-12 shots to start taking out anything worth anything, throw in another 4-5 shots to get rid of they heavy bolter)

I'd rather run 2 squads of these than one of 4 ML for the extra 100 or so points.

Heck you can even survive a smite or two.

Like the other posters in this thread I tend to favor las-cannons or grav depending on what chapter I'm running (raven guard for sweet infiltrating grav, grav w/ guilliman is probably one of the best combos in the game if you can keep them alive and in range) and how many las-cannons I'm already bringing to the table (seems consensus is around 8-10 las cannons worth of alpha shooting @ 2k points)
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I try to have some combo of 4-10 lascannons/missiles and 4 meltas at 1k. Monsters and tanks are the killiest things used against my marines; it all needs to be dealt with as early as possible, the chaff can be cleaned up after. At 2k I’ll be seeing so many drones, dreads, nidzilla, etc. that I’ll need more than 10 lascannon at 2k to prevent a tabling lol.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I'm actually gonna suggest something radical. Any Devastator squad should have 1 ML in it just so you can activate the Flakk strategem.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I have not used devastators very much as I have been more focused on Primaris. However I have used them in a mechanized theme build alongside guard. Ill take 4 devastator squads all in razorbacks with assault cannons. I arm the Devs with a cherub and 1 lascannon. Using Salamander CT you get full re-rolls for the lascannon and can negate the heavy penalty with the signum. It works really well as a versatile and reliable loadout regardless of if you use them to camp in the back or advance in the razorback.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




What chapter are you playing as? This can have a big impact on what type of devs you should take. In my local meta we have a raven guard player who takes 10 man dev squads with 4 multi meltas because it's so easy to get them in range. I am a Salamander and space wolf player, my wolves use missile launchers on the long fangs and I find its always pretty useful thanks to their tactical flexibility. My Salamanders however go laz cannons because my tacticals are all 5 man squads with a plasma cannon. Overcharge doesn't mean jack when I can reroll a one to hit.

Having said all that, plasma is fun. Las cannons do exceptional against bigger targets. And missile launchers are perfectly fine (though I would be happier if they only cost 20pts instead of 25) if you want your devs to have tactical flexibility. Unless your opponent runs a lot of t8 targets the difference between krak missile and laz cannon is -2Ap vs -3Ap, or 5+ vs 6+ save normally if the target gets a save. And if the target has an invulnerable save even that doesn't matter as much.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I’d argue Salamander tacticals are better because of objective secured and more CP.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




1999 points
1 Roboute Gulliman
2 Techmarines
9 Devastator squads (5 man, 4 ML, (8 Armorium Cherub))

You'll eat every piece of armor, or horde infantry, you'll come across. 36+8 Missile launcher shots, re-rolling all hits and wounds - yeah, good luck enemies.

Missile Launchers (even if you don't spam them), are honestly underrated. They're just so versatile.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/11/15 02:49:14


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Bremon wrote:
I’d argue Salamander tacticals are better because of objective secured and more CP.

Objective Secured isn't a great bonus. If the opponent really wants 5 Tactical Marines dead...they'll be dead. At least with Devastators you get the Signum and Cherub. That really does a lot for offense.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I'd just like to point out that against a lot of targets, krak missiles are almost as or just as good as lascannnons. The frag mode is not awesome, HOWEVER, with 48" range, you can supplment other small arms fire and push units into battleshock, which is doubling that particular damage.

If you fire 4 missile launches in frag mode, that is 4D6 shots, which averages out about as well as 8D3.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Bremon wrote:
I’d argue Salamander tacticals are better because of objective secured and more CP.

Objective Secured isn't a great bonus. If the opponent really wants 5 Tactical Marines dead...they'll be dead. At least with Devastators you get the Signum and Cherub. That really does a lot for offense.
2 extra command points in an army that struggles to get many is worth it. Plus, if they’re shooting Tac marines (or a single weapon Dev squad) you’re either about to be tabled or in a good spot lol.
   
Made in ca
Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot





Australia

Aeri wrote:
What do you guys think is the best loadout for devs?


Lascannons and Missile Launchers tend to be good multi-purpose weapons. Lascannons can take out a lot of different targets, but do tend to struggle against infantry. But let's be honest - If you didn't build your list well enough to have anti-infantry capabilities or it's got to the point in the game where you're relying on Lascannons to take out infantry, then you've probably lost already. Missile Launchers are similar in the sense that at least one of their weaknesses is dealing with a lot of MEQ infantry since Frag Missiles don't tend to do much since D6 shots is unreliable and they have no AP.

With the above in mind, I still think they are good generic weapons, especially if you're using Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics or something that's equivalent on them.

The other Heavy Weapons are situational and can also depend on how you use them. For example - Multi-Meltas are best put in a transport rather than sat on an objective or foot-slogged.

Aeri wrote:
I am thinking about 4 Missilelaunchers, because of their tactical flexibility.


Good thought but only if you're trying to make a generic list. If you only have one Devastator Squad, then Lascannons may be the better option but if you have more than one, then equipping one with Missile Launchers is a decent idea.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Bremon wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Bremon wrote:
I’d argue Salamander tacticals are better because of objective secured and more CP.

Objective Secured isn't a great bonus. If the opponent really wants 5 Tactical Marines dead...they'll be dead. At least with Devastators you get the Signum and Cherub. That really does a lot for offense.
2 extra command points in an army that struggles to get many is worth it. Plus, if they’re shooting Tac marines (or a single weapon Dev squad) you’re either about to be tabled or in a good spot lol.

It's much easier just to pay the Scout tax. Once Rowboat gets his eventual nerf Tactical Marines won't even be below mediocre near him. So I'd rather just get the reliability of Devastators and Scouts for screening.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

Thanks for all your input!

I play dark angels right now, so no Girlyman cheese for me
I don't like spamming Mortis dreads or predators, so I guess the obvious choice really are lascanons.

Sometimes I bring a squad of black Knights that offer massive plasmafire. But the don't have the range to cover the whole field.

Don't have my index with me (on my way to work) - how many points is a 5 man last squad roughly?
   
Made in au
Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight




Tasmania

Aeri wrote:
Thanks for all your input!

I play dark angels right now, so no Girlyman cheese for me
I don't like spamming Mortis dreads or predators, so I guess the obvious choice really are lascanons.

Sometimes I bring a squad of black Knights that offer massive plasmafire. But the don't have the range to cover the whole field.

Don't have my index with me (on my way to work) - how many points is a 5 man last squad roughly?



They are 165 w/o the cherub. this is compared to the 190 that a quad Lascannon Predator costs. That's a 25 point discount for a drop in durability vs common anti-personal weapons such as an assault cannon, but a bump in durability vs. anti tank weapons. They also have a slight increase in offensive capability before damage, and are more versatile and can take advantage of elevated positions and cover.

I do realise this thread isn't comparing them to predators, but its a pretty interesting comparison to take into account.



4,000pts Grey KNights
10,000+pts Dark Eldar
4,00pts Necron
5,000pts Eldar
Other Imperium : I stopped counting around 20,000pts
Maybe its time to invest in a titan? 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I’d rather pay extra to have two squads with a cherub and 2 lascannons. More ablative wounds, more flexibility and more reliability than a quadlas pred.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Bremon wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Bremon wrote:
I’d argue Salamander tacticals are better because of objective secured and more CP.

Objective Secured isn't a great bonus. If the opponent really wants 5 Tactical Marines dead...they'll be dead. At least with Devastators you get the Signum and Cherub. That really does a lot for offense.
2 extra command points in an army that struggles to get many is worth it. Plus, if they’re shooting Tac marines (or a single weapon Dev squad) you’re either about to be tabled or in a good spot lol.

It's much easier just to pay the Scout tax. Once Rowboat gets his eventual nerf Tactical Marines won't even be below mediocre near him. So I'd rather just get the reliability of Devastators and Scouts for screening.
Well, you do you, but his rumoured nerf is +25pts, and a signum doesn’t make a devastator better than a salamander lascannon Tac marine. But again; you do you.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




A Signum and Cherub makes the Devastator Lascannon WAY better with Salamnders though. Run them with two Lascannons initially, and then add another Lascannon with another meat shield.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

What do you guys do squad size? I know its rather common to keep them 5 strong but this has always bothered me that you are more or less loosing HW's right away.

I always run these sorts of squads 8-10 maybe i'm missing a trick?

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Guilliman benefits missile launchers better than he does lascannons.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 Latro_ wrote:
What do you guys do squad size? I know its rather common to keep them 5 strong but this has always bothered me that you are more or less loosing HW's right away.

I always run these sorts of squads 8-10 maybe i'm missing a trick?


Tough call. You could take those 5 ablative wounds and put them in a 2nd Dev squad, give them heavy weapons too and suddenly your ablative wounds have dakka!

A lot of it will depend on what you are arming the squad with. If you are going Grav, HB or MM then extra bodies are good as they will normally be in range to shoot. If you are taking a long range ML or LC squad then those extra bodies are going to be standing there, not doing much waiting to catch bullets.

I don't find my Devs take too many casualties. I play quite aggressively so my opponent is usually more worried about the Hellblasters, Razorbacks, Dreadnoughts and Vet squads trying to fill his face with plasma and assault cannons to take much notice of the heavy weapons plinking away from the back field. If he dedicates his effort to eliminating them (and they are normally in cover) then that means my short-ranged units will be in his face unscathed and contesting mid-field objectives.

Heads I win, tails they lose.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/16 12:12:41


I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

 iStompya wrote:
Aeri wrote:
Thanks for all your input!

I play dark angels right now, so no Girlyman cheese for me
I don't like spamming Mortis dreads or predators, so I guess the obvious choice really are lascanons.

Sometimes I bring a squad of black Knights that offer massive plasmafire. But the don't have the range to cover the whole field.

Don't have my index with me (on my way to work) - how many points is a 5 man last squad roughly?



They are 165 w/o the cherub. this is compared to the 190 that a quad Lascannon Predator costs. That's a 25 point discount for a drop in durability vs common anti-personal weapons such as an assault cannon, but a bump in durability vs. anti tank weapons. They also have a slight increase in offensive capability before damage, and are more versatile and can take advantage of elevated positions and cover.

I do realise this thread isn't comparing them to predators, but its a pretty interesting comparison to take into account.




It's a very interesting comparison!

In my mind I am comparing VenDreads/Dreads (TwinLas or TwinAuto), Predators (2Las, PredAuto/TwinLas) and Devs (Quad Las/ML).
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




I keep seeing folks with 5 man dev squads and 4 expensive weapons in them. I can't help but notice that 5 man marine teams can get blicked pretty quick. Since the weapons are so expensive, is there any sense to equipping less than the full 4, so 2 casualties doesn't start immediately removing them? I was messing around with 5 man teams with only 2 LC each, that way I can take a few wounds without kissing goodbye to a 25 pt heavy weapon. Plus with more squads it spreads around the Signum bonus and I can get an armor cherub. I haven't really played around with it in an actual match and was wondering if anyone who has can give me some insight. Thanks.

"The Ultramarines are here to save us!"

"Those are the Sons of Orar."

"O R they!" 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

Gwarok wrote:
I keep seeing folks with 5 man dev squads and 4 expensive weapons in them. I can't help but notice that 5 man marine teams can get blicked pretty quick. Since the weapons are so expensive, is there any sense to equipping less than the full 4, so 2 casualties doesn't start immediately removing them? I was messing around with 5 man teams with only 2 LC each, that way I can take a few wounds without kissing goodbye to a 25 pt heavy weapon. Plus with more squads it spreads around the Signum bonus and I can get an armor cherub. I haven't really played around with it in an actual match and was wondering if anyone who has can give me some insight. Thanks.

Not that it matters worth gak for "competitive", but 5-man squads should only have 2 heavy weapons anyways (combat squad) per the Codex Astartes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/17 19:25:46


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




5 man dev squads are only alpha competitive. They work as a drop in alpha strike, but not starting on the board (which, if you're doing LCs, they will)
   
 
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