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Looking to complete my Tallarn force. Seeing the perks for vehicles and Heavy weapons with their troop mobility is nice, but is it worh it? I have seen a lot of Catachan and Cadian forces but no Tallarn or Valhallan. Would like advice on building/using them efficiently. I see that a lot believe the Catachans and Cadians are the best to run, going the guard route (lots of speculation there), so I want to know what you chaps think on what ways a Tallarn force would best be utilized on the field compared to others.

 Greyguy13 wrote:
Looking to complete my Tallarn force. Seeing the perks for vehicles and Heavy weapons with their troop mobility is nice, but is it worh it? I have seen a lot of Catachan and Cadian forces but no Tallarn or Valhallan. Would like advice on building/using them efficiently. I see that a lot believe the Catachans and Cadians are the best to run, going the guard route (lots of speculation there), so I want to know what you chaps think on what ways a Tallarn force would best be utilized on the field compared to others.

The Tallarn abilities are a little more challenging to make use of, whereas Cadian and Catachan are obvious in how you play them.

The Tallarn regiment trait is all about mobility. This means you don't want to bring heavy weapon teams, but special weapons are great. Pack in the plasma, and start advancing around the battlefield. Its also hugely beneficial to vehicles. But really we don't play on battlefields big enough to kite enemies on. So you're mostly just going to be trying to drive around the side while shooting and trying to stay away from the enemy.

The ambush stratagem is great. You can drop 3 LRBTs and two infantry squads in someone's back line. This can really ruin someone's day.

But the thing to remember, is that your entire army doesn't have to be tallarn. You can split it up by detachment. Bring a detachment of Tallarn sentinels and infantry, and have them run up and down the flanks. Or ambush a detachment of LRBTs. Meanwhile your other detachment of cadians holds the line and pounds the crud out of the enemy with artillery.

Part of it is because most guard players own Cadians and Catachans. The other part is Cadian and Catachan traits are brutally obvious and simple to make work, whereas Tallarn you need to really know where your strengths lie and build to them. Tallarn have one of the best traits in the guard, it just takes a bit more work to get the use out of it. Their tank order in particular paired with their trait is excellent, and their baneblades are stupidly dangerous if you can tokyo drift one into an enemy unit and use the "Crush them" strategy at the right time.

Basically, anything that's a vehicle that wants to move with heavy weapons gets better, so things like Sentinels and sponson russes are obvious choices right off the bat. Short ranged russes like Punishers and Demolishers get more use out of tallarn due to their speed, and the tank order allows you to move/move/fire or move/fire/move, which any tau player will tell you is amazing. Combined with their outflank ability, Tallarn are the most mobile IG force hands down and it can really catch people off guard.

As for their infantry, they play radically different from other regiments. Where most will want to stay still or at least have reasons to bring a heavy weapon, Tallarn really don't care that much and should be advancing around the table nonstop or riding into the battle on transports. This helps you keep up with your tanks, should you bring them, or play keep away with enemy units. In addition, Tallarn meltas are going to be some of the scarier ones out there due to the fact that they can advance and fire it with no penalty.

To give you an idea Tallarn are next on my list for IG. I already own Cadians, Catachans, and Valhallans and specifcally want Tallarn next as they're one of the more unique regiments out there. They offer a lot of potential for a player trying to do something different. I don't know if they're the most perfect and competitive list out there, but they certainly give you a lot of options other regiments don't have. Their benefits are really hard to prove/disprove with mathhammer so other than obvious situations like a superheavy regiment or something they don't jump out to people as much as the Catchan reroll explosives and the Cadian reroll 1 abilities do.

The local guy who ALWAYS has the cheesiest army won a tournament last week with a mixed Tallarn/Vostroyan force.

I'm assembling a Tallarn force to ally with my existing AdMech to give better cheap screening - I like their mobility and ability to bum rush outwards and push the opponent away from my Kastelan robots and tanks.

About 1000 points

Batallion:
Company Commander
Primaris Psyker
3 Infantry squads with flamers

Spearhead:
Leman Russ Tank Commander
Leman Russ
Leman Russ Punisher
Heavy weapons squad (mortars)

Why tallarn on that infantry battalion? If they just gonna stand still as meatshield and not move I would recommend say Cadian or maybe Mordian. Tallarn infantery needs to be mobile and synergise poorly with flamers. Tanks are fine though. Maybe split the regiments?

Ragnar69 wrote:
The local guy who ALWAYS has the cheesiest army won a tournament last week with a mixed Tallarn/Vostroyan force.

I would be interested to see his list if you know it.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
their baneblades are stupidly dangerous if you can tokyo drift one into an enemy unit and use the "Crush them" strategy at the right time.

Am I missing something? I thought superheavies basically get nothing from being tallarn. Their weapons already don't take penalties from moving, and if you ambush with one it already counts as having moved maximum so you're probably not in range to charge anything.

ThePorcupine wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
their baneblades are stupidly dangerous if you can tokyo drift one into an enemy unit and use the "Crush them" strategy at the right time.

Am I missing something? I thought superheavies basically get nothing from being tallarn. Their weapons already don't take penalties from moving, and if you ambush with one it already counts as having moved maximum so you're probably not in range to charge anything.

If I remember correctly Tallarn tanks can advance and treat all their weapons as assault weapons. It makes them faster and a bit harder to pin down.

I thought the superheavy rule only helped their main weapon but I could be wrong, I don't own superheavies. If so then yeah, they don't benefit from tallarn near as much as I thought they did. I assumed they were like Russes where the turret ignores movement but the sponsons and hull weapons didn't.

Chimeras with heavy bolters suddenly becomes interesting. And sentinels. Tallarn infantry also has effectively higher movement, and a longer threat range.

Yeah, Ive been using Tallarn to make my mechanised list a bit more.... mobile, really. Steel Legion plays too bunkery, imo. And sure, you lose out on the infantry bonus most of the time, but eh... worth it for killy chimeras.

ThePorcupine wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
their baneblades are stupidly dangerous if you can tokyo drift one into an enemy unit and use the "Crush them" strategy at the right time.

Am I missing something? I thought superheavies basically get nothing from being tallarn. Their weapons already don't take penalties from moving, and if you ambush with one it already counts as having moved maximum so you're probably not in range to charge anything.

They don't get any penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons, but with Tallarn all of their heavy weapons are treated as assault so you can advance your baneblade as well as fire it.

I play Sisters of Battle as my main force but Tallarn have always been my second favorite force to play. With their new traits, played properly, I think Tallarn can really outmaneuver a lot of lists.
I play a mix of fast moving Sisters with Tallarn outflanking (3 DevilDogs and 3 Veteran Squads fully melta, led by my 3-orders per turn Commander) and 5 las-Sentinels in the backfield moving around for best cover. I also bring 2 Scion squads dropping where needed. It makes for a very hard force to pin down and can make it difficult for an opponent to plan his next move.

 Stus67 wrote:
They don't get any penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons, but with Tallarn all of their heavy weapons are treated as assault so you can advance your baneblade as well as fire it.

True, but assault weapons still give tallarn vehicles -1 to hit. I guess if you're just about to assault and you're just out of normal assault range you could... take -1 to hit. I dunno if I'd ever find it worth it.

ThePorcupine wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
They don't get any penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons, but with Tallarn all of their heavy weapons are treated as assault so you can advance your baneblade as well as fire it.

True, but assault weapons still give tallarn vehicles -1 to hit. I guess if you're just about to assault and you're just out of normal assault range you could... take -1 to hit. I dunno if I'd ever find it worth it.

Assault weapons only give a -1 if you advance in addition to your regular move.

Tallarn titanic vehicle weapons only count as assault if the vehicle advances.

Valkeries, Vendettas, etc are all amazing with tallarn. Moving and not taking a penalty makes them MUCH more viable.

If you play maelstrom missions, where being mobile is really important, then the Tallarn ability to move around every vehicle every time without losing fire effectiveness is awesome.

I’ve had good luck outflanking a squadron of hellhounds.

 sfshilo wrote:
Valkeries, Vendettas, etc are all amazing with tallarn. Moving and not taking a penalty makes them MUCH more viable.

Valkyries and I would assume Vendettas do not get regiment traits, they're part of the Imperial Navy, not the Guard. Sorry to break that bubble.

Yeah, my Tallarns' Valkyrii really feel like the odd man out with the new codex since they hit on 5s while all my other vehicles can move and hit on 4s.

I might mothball my Valkyrie for now since I can get mobility elsewhere. I usually have 4 squads outflanking (1 via the dagger), my rough riders outflanking, and 2 to 3 deep striking stormtrooper squads.

The codex valkyrie hits on 3s (with rocket pods), and everything else on 4s, not 5s. As long as you move under 20" I believe you get +1 to hit, and rocket pods were changed from heavy to assault so moving doesn't gimp them.

I guess if for some reason you want to fly more than 20" then yeah, you'll be taking penalties.

ThePorcupine wrote:
The codex valkyrie hits on 3s (with rocket pods), and everything else on 4s, not 5s. As long as you move under 20" I believe you get +1 to hit, and rocket pods were changed from heavy to assault so moving doesn't gimp them.

I guess if for some reason you want to fly more than 20" then yeah, you'll be taking penalties.

As long as you *hover* you get +1 to hit, which somewhat negates the benefit of being a flyer. I'd missed the Assault attribute on the rocket pods though, thanks for the highlight. Rocket valks are perfectly adequate for throwing guardsmen in people's faces; but not much else.

I don't think valkyries need "hard to hit". They're already more durable than a leman Russ and very unlikely to get shot down in 1 turn. Plus, if your opponent gets turn 1, your valkyries have hard to hit on by default.

As for moving only 19 inches? That's 19 +3 disembarking + 6 infantry move. I don't think you'll have any trouble reaching anything.

Only good at throwing guard at stuff? I think valkyries have respectable dakka. 2d6+9 heavy bolter shots basically.

To the OP's original question - because tanks in desert camo look badass.

For those having trouble sourcing Tallarn models and don't play tournaments (so don't need to comply to any rules) - I just converted 40 Arabs from the Gripping Beast plastic Arab set for my Tallarns

While it was a fecker of a job it turned out really well in the end!

I also happened to have to 40 spare las rifles, which obviously helped .... but they can be bought pretty cheap from the various purveyors of bits out there.Planning to also do some Rough Riders with their Arab Cavalry set too. Good fun.

 Greyguy13 wrote:
Looking to complete my Tallarn force. Seeing the perks for vehicles and Heavy weapons with their troop mobility is nice, but is it worh it? I have seen a lot of Catachan and Cadian forces but no Tallarn or Valhallan. Would like advice on building/using them efficiently. I see that a lot believe the Catachans and Cadians are the best to run, going the guard route (lots of speculation there), so I want to know what you chaps think on what ways a Tallarn force would best be utilized on the field compared to others.

The Tallarn doctrines aren't bad, but aren't as straightfoward or blatantly powerful and broadly useful. Having a highly mobile vehicle guard army is very interesting on paper, but in practice...you may not get much benefit out of it as you may just not need to do lots of moving. If you play in a heavy Maelstrom environment, it may be more useful, but still very situational.

The catachan doctrine meanwhile, if you're running an army built on weapons like Battlecannons, Inferno Cannons, Storm Eagle Rockets, etc. is insanely powerful and straightforward. I played a game yesterday where it functionally doubled my firepower. Out of 9 tanks in the list, only 3 ever moved the entire game, but the rerolls for low shot counts resulted in dramatically higher firepower output.

Valhallan I think is good, but really built more around certain types of armies and units. If I were going to run a Superheavy tank company, I'd probably run them as Valhallans. The tanks would be fully capable until almost dead and have enough resiliency to survive a strong alpha strike, making it much more useful than on something like a Hellhound.

pessa wrote:
For those having trouble sourcing Tallarn models and don't play tournaments (so don't need to comply to any rules) - I just converted 40 Arabs from the Gripping Beast plastic Arab set for my Tallarns

While it was a fecker of a job it turned out really well in the end!

I also happened to have to 40 spare las rifles, which obviously helped .... but they can be bought pretty cheap from the various purveyors of bits out there.Planning to also do some Rough Riders with their Arab Cavalry set too. Good fun.

You don't actually need tallarn models to play tallarn from a rule standpoint. The codex says that pretty blatantly. I haven't come across a tournament that barred me from playing my cadian modeled tallarn yet either.

 Stus67 wrote:

pessa wrote:
For those having trouble sourcing Tallarn models and don't play tournaments (so don't need to comply to any rules) - I just converted 40 Arabs from the Gripping Beast plastic Arab set for my Tallarns

While it was a fecker of a job it turned out really well in the end!

I also happened to have to 40 spare las rifles, which obviously helped .... but they can be bought pretty cheap from the various purveyors of bits out there.Planning to also do some Rough Riders with their Arab Cavalry set too. Good fun.

You don't actually need tallarn models to play tallarn from a rule standpoint. The codex says that pretty blatantly. I haven't come across a tournament that barred me from playing my cadian modeled tallarn yet either.

Sure. I was more talking from a 'not using official GW models' POV. Like, if you want desert themed models for purely aesthetic reasons (you want your Tallarn's to look a bit like the original Tallarn models, but don't want to spend a fortune) as long as you don't don't play tournaments you can always convert Gripping Beast Arabs, or use another manufacturer who makes deserty looking guys.