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Anyone else feel like 8th Ed codex grey knights went from codex dreadknight to codex dreadknight: grand master edition?

It sure did. There's no reason to ever take a regular dreadknight. Grand Master one is solid though. Best unit in the codex.

Yup, I feel like the rest of the codex lies somewhere between meh to okay.

What makes it really bad is that you can use the Command detachment to take nothing but GMDKs. Add them to literally any Imperial soup list for profit.

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 Galef wrote:
What makes it really bad is that you can use the Command detachment to take nothing but GMDKs. Add them to literally any Imperial soup list for profit.

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This. And nothing else in the Grey Knights book is worth bringing.

Some of the units are actually insulting. The Librarian is insulting. If you actually have a Grey Knights army, you know what i'm talking about. Reading its entry offended me. It is so bad and pointless.

 Galef wrote:
What makes it really bad is that you can use the Command detachment to take nothing but GMDKs. Add them to literally any Imperial soup list for profit.

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They work pretty great with Astra... Imperial Guard who bring enough guns to remove any chaff and deepstrike bumber off the table for Grand Masters to teleport in on turn two.

There are quite a few insulting things about the codex--the only one to not receive points decreases across the board. Instead Terminators got a points increase (what?). In addition to Librarians, somehow techmarines are 91 base points in contrast to SM Techmarines at 45. (Knowing baby Smite+ a psychic power can hardly be worth an additional 46 points.

Paladin Ancients at 140 is absurd, Purifiers with only 1 base attack, and the unique special weapons being largely useless, particularly psycannons and incinerators at their points cost.

Also for an army light on command points some of the stratagems cost too much. Psychic Onslaught and Psybolt Ammo should both be 1 CP.

MasteroftheBloodAngels wrote:
There are quite a few insulting things about the codex--the only one to not receive points decreases across the board. Instead Terminators got a points increase (what?). In addition to Librarians, somehow techmarines are 91 base points in contrast to SM Techmarines at 45. (Knowing baby Smite+ a psychic power can hardly be worth an additional 46 points.

Paladin Ancients at 140 is absurd, Purifiers with only 1 base attack, and the unique special weapons being largely useless, particularly psycannons and incinerators at their points cost.

Also for an army light on command points some of the stratagems cost too much. Psychic Onslaught and Psybolt Ammo should both be 1 CP.

Not to mention most of the stratagems are downright bad. The ability to pay CP to move after deep strike, for infantry, would be fitting and very useful.

I mean the codex is just awful, the army is really, really bad.

There is ONE good unit - the GMNDK.

Strike squads can do okay as a filler in a battalion but still, you'd be better off finding a way to drop them and work in imperial guard.

I really hate what GW did to this faction. And it's not just points. They're bland, they don't synergize well with the other factions at all, and their psychic powers are really sad. Baby smite is just icing on the gak cake, a cake made of their stratagems.

Yea I kinda just stopped playing. Posting here less. Got bunch of models that need to painted that won't be.

No motivation.

My other large army is a 1300 detachment of IG Scions to escort a knight. A knight that is pretty bad as well. This edition killed the game for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the GK tactica thread is dead... because there are no tactics available to discuss.

MasteroftheBloodAngels wrote:
There are quite a few insulting things about the codex--the only one to not receive points decreases across the board. Instead Terminators got a points increase (what?). In addition to Librarians, somehow techmarines are 91 base points in contrast to SM Techmarines at 45. (Knowing baby Smite+ a psychic power can hardly be worth an additional 46 points.

Paladin Ancients at 140 is absurd, Purifiers with only 1 base attack, and the unique special weapons being largely useless, particularly psycannons and incinerators at their points cost.

Also for an army light on command points some of the stratagems cost too much. Psychic Onslaught and Psybolt Ammo should both be 1 CP.

I wouldn't even mind point increases etc IF they then WERE good enough to be worth it. Game has too many too cheap points related to standard point size of games resulting in overly crowded boards. Army that goes against that would be nice change of pace. IF they were then worth the high points. And GK's sure fit thematically into super small super elite army.

But super small average to lousy units? That's bad. Pity. The models are stunning.

I'm just starting back to 40K and apparently I picked the wrong faction. I picked GK because of Armageddon and I can tell you that I'm not enthused with my choices when I play my friends' armies of Tyranids and IG.
I'm confused by the stats of my special weapons. In Armageddon my Psilencers, Incinerators and, Psycannons can move and shoot without penalty. In 40K I'm automatically -1BS for moving with this same weapon.
And what's the deal with the fact that Psilencers are better than Psycannons in almost every instance (according to math hammer)?
Why are my "cream of the crop" marines exactly the same statistically as every other marine. Why is my Smite so nerfed that it's practically worthless?
I have so many questions and can't find any satisfactory answers. Usually, the answer is that's GW for you.

I picked up a NDK and term sqd from a friend and plan to do a small force of GKs. I doubt I will make a full force (nah...I probably will) but I don't expect much from them, but I do love their look and feel. On the surface they do not look that bad.and it's hard to match points when adding psychic abilities to everyone.
However, a basic strike sqd marine is 21 pts, but if you take a regular Space Marine at 13pts, add storm bolter (+2pts), add power weapon (+4pts) then you are only paying 2pts for the psychic ability, deep strike and D3 wounds from melee weapon. How can you say it's overcosted?
The psychic abilities are decent but not overly great, certainly not terrible.
As for strategems, many do seem overcosted which is odd for an army that won't generate many CPs and the entire second page seem quite poor except maybe the boost to invuln save. Perhaps more vocal presentation to GW will see a change in a future FAQ?
As for smite, if the rumour is true that smite may be harder to cast for each subsequent caster then this won't (or shouldn't affect) GKs who basically have their own named power (like Eldar warlocks).

Couple things:

1. We don't have a special named power like Warlocks. We have a rule that modifies Smite. Any change to Smite such as making it harder to cast or limiting it's use effects us too.

2. Strikes are the 2nd best unit in our Codex so when we're saying stuff is over costed we aren't usually talking about them. That said, comparing them to Tactical is wrong because Tactical are ALSO a bit over costed.

3. The fundamental issue seems to be that we don't have a passionate cheerleader among GW or the TO's they consult, thus our Codex is not put together very well.

Bullyboy- it's not 2 points per model for the psychic ability since only the unit gets the ability and units can have between 5 and 10 models. So GK players are paying 10-20 points per unit to do 1 12" attack that, if successful, does 1 wound. AFAIK there is no weapon that has that profile that cost 10, let alone 20 points.

 Quickjager wrote:
Yea I kinda just stopped playing. Posting here less. Got bunch of models that need to painted that won't be.

No motivation.

My other large army is a 1300 detachment of IG Scions to escort a knight. A knight that is pretty bad as well. This edition killed the game for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the GK tactica thread is dead... because there are no tactics available to discuss.

I'm focusing on my other armies, which are, unfortunately, also underpowered. But they're at least they're playable casually.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Bullyboy- it's not 2 points per model for the psychic ability since only the unit gets the ability and units can have between 5 and 10 models. So GK players are paying 10-20 points per unit to do 1 12" attack that, if successful, does 1 wound. AFAIK there is no weapon that has that profile that cost 10, let alone 20 points.

You seem to have forgotten about deep strike and D3 wounds on melee weapon in that points cost.

 bullyboy wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Bullyboy- it's not 2 points per model for the psychic ability since only the unit gets the ability and units can have between 5 and 10 models. So GK players are paying 10-20 points per unit to do 1 12" attack that, if successful, does 1 wound. AFAIK there is no weapon that has that profile that cost 10, let alone 20 points.

You seem to have forgotten about deep strike and D3 wounds on melee weapon in that points cost.

Yeah I don't think people are arguing that Grey Knight Strike Squads aren't baller though. Equip them with Falcions and Psilencers and you're in business.

Really, the only decent units in this codex are the Grand Master in a Dreadknight and strike squads.

Everything else is meh and a little bland. Paladins are just slightly better terminators and terminators are over costed. Most of our host of characters are expensive and don't bring much to the table (flavor or competitiveness). Purifiers are terrible. The stormraven is to expensive to field with this army. Land raiders too. Interceptors are okay, but have a similar bag of trick as the strikesquads for a bit more points. Purgation squads w/ 4 psilencers aren't bad, but need a delivery system. Internal balance is terrible in this codex.

This isn't a departure to their 7th edition issues either! It was bring Max dreadknights with a single strike squad or terminator for mandatory troops.. its about the same now except troops are not mandatory any longer.

All-in-all... if you want success as grey knights, bring 3-4x Grandmasters in Dreadknights in a detachment and fill the rest of you army w/ another faction.

Luckily I have a Nid army and Guard army so I am just relishing with those armies right now while they get their time in the sun.

I think you're just seeing the end result of a small piece of fluff about a cool unit being hamfisted into an army. I suspect you'll see the same with Harlequins, etc.

 Elbows wrote:
I think you're just seeing the end result of a small piece of fluff about a cool unit being hamfisted into an army. I suspect you'll see the same with Harlequins, etc.

Not really, Bretonnia has less choice and has always been a strong fan-favorite. GK has even more unit variety, it's just the pay too much on mostly everything.