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I'm still getting familiar with 8th Ed, but I really can't see why anyone would ever use a Drop Pod given their cost. Whatever unit you'd most likely want to drop in that doesn't already deepstrike could likely be replaced and improved using a different unit that does have that ability, at least for the points of a drop pod. Am I missing something or are Drop Pods as unappealing as they seem at first glance?

You're right. Pods are garbage. You get at cheapest 10 extra points per model to have the Deep Strike. It's pretty ridiculous

Never. It's a 20 pt model.

Sternguard is the only unit that might get some milage out of them. 9” is close enough for them. MM a/o GC dev squads might also work.

They might be effective for them, but the points make them not very efficient. Not for use in very competitive environments, but should do decent at a more friendly level.

Pods are overpriced, and can’t get you into flamer/half melta range any more. And they are easy to screen against. Delivering close ranged shooting on flank drops is their only real job these days, and they pay too much to do it.

Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks for the feedback.

I'll probably sell mine. They're the only miniatures I've bought because of their effectiveness in the game but never liked the models and now they're useless.

They should be zero points, and cost command points to use instead, IMO.

Blackie wrote:I'll probably sell mine. They're the only miniatures I've bought because of their effectiveness in the game but never liked the models and now they're useless.

If you sell them, they will probably re-work the rules and points. Sometimes things take a back shelf for an edition or two and then come back to the fore. Sometimes being a packrat helps.

Fafnir wrote:They should be zero points, and cost command points to use instead, IMO.

3rd and I think 4th had something similar. You could drop pod your entire army, but it was an abstract thing without models, and placed restriction on what you could include in your list.

Almost all changes affecting drop pods with the transition to 8th were negative, no wonder they suck. They're more expensive, they deep strike more restrictively while other DS got better, they don't get objective secured and that formation (skyhammer?) is gone.

I think they're a case of "we've sold enough of this model for now, let's make it suck for a while" along with the Wraithknight and other things.

 Cream Tea wrote:
Almost all changes affecting drop pods with the transition to 8th were negative, no wonder they suck. They're more expensive, they deep strike more restrictively while other DS got better, they don't get objective secured and that formation (skyhammer?) is gone.

I think they're a case of "we've sold enough of this model for now, let's make it suck for a while" along with the Wraithknight and other things.

To be fair, you choose when they arrive, and they have no scatter.

Now I never worried about scatter with their old rules, as long as you didn’t hug the table edge there was no way you weren’t going to be close enough to get the job done even with some scatter. But they did get some buffs.

Just not enough to justify the price and other restrictions that got hung on them, but not 100% negative.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:
Almost all changes affecting drop pods with the transition to 8th were negative, no wonder they suck. They're more expensive, they deep strike more restrictively while other DS got better, they don't get objective secured and that formation (skyhammer?) is gone.

I think they're a case of "we've sold enough of this model for now, let's make it suck for a while" along with the Wraithknight and other things.

To be fair, you choose when they arrive, and they have no scatter.

Now I never worried about scatter with their old rules, as long as you didn’t hug the table edge there was no way you weren’t going to be close enough to get the job done even with some scatter. But they did get some buffs.

Just not enough to justify the price and other restrictions that got hung on them, but not 100% negative.

Oh, that's right. Still, they had a rule before that let half of your pods enter turn 1 without a roll, so that too was an area where they were ahead of other DS options and lost their edge in 8th. Same with the scatter, they had that guidance system rule in 7th.

I don't play Marines myself, so I'm not as well versed with their rules as some, but even I can see that they got shafted majorly in 8th. My lack of Marine experience means I won't make any suggestions on how they could be made viable, but in my view the ideal should be that every model be a viable choice given the right circumstances. Drop Pods need help.

 Cream Tea wrote:

Oh, that's right. Still, they had a rule before that let half of your pods enter turn 1 without a roll, so that too was an area where they were ahead of other DS options and lost their edge in 8th. Same with the scatter, they had that guidance system rule in 7th.

I don't play Marines myself, so I'm not as well versed with their rules as some, but even I can see that they got shafted majorly in 8th. My lack of Marine experience means I won't make any suggestions on how they could be made viable, but in my view the ideal should be that every model be a viable choice given the right circumstances. Drop Pods need help.

The scatter and turn of arrival thing were limited advantages. Most, but not all, came in first turn, and you mostly didn’t have to worry about scatter. 8th just took the “mostly” off and made them simply straight forward advantages. But overall they got the shaft, no arguments.

My simple fix for them would be to shave a few points off the top and modify the disembark rule. Let the unit deploy normally, but forbid it from charging. 9” away for the pod, but deploying troops need to be within (but not entirely within) 3” lets you melta and flamer things out of pods again. Assuming your opponent doesn’t have any screening units. The charge restriction keeps spammable first turn assaults in check. Oh, and let dreads back onboard.

Just my thoughts, YMMV

 Nevelon wrote:
The scatter and turn of arrival thing were limited advantages. Most, but not all, came in first turn, and you mostly didn’t have to worry about scatter. 8th just took the “mostly” off and made them simply straight forward advantages. But overall they got the shaft, no arguments.

My simple fix for them would be to shave a few points off the top and modify the disembark rule. Let the unit deploy normally, but forbid it from charging. 9” away for the pod, but deploying troops need to be within (but not entirely within) 3” lets you melta and flamer things out of pods again. Assuming your opponent doesn’t have any screening units. The charge restriction keeps spammable first turn assaults in check. Oh, and let dreads back onboard.

Just my thoughts, YMMV

The fact that both the pod and the passengers need to stay out of 9" is probably the worst thing about them in 8th. You need a lot of space to land one. I think your change sounds good, but hey, I'm just an Eldar player...

 Blackie wrote:
I'll probably sell mine. They're the only miniatures I've bought because of their effectiveness in the game but never liked the models and now they're useless.

I would hold off till chapter approved drops and see if tere are any point changes. This year has seen a lot of improvement from GW. Chapter approved might just fix a lot of things.

Rumor has it, a 10 pt drop only. Insanity.

There are a lot of ways to make drop pods better without changing their cost.

We could get a ruling either way on if the units inside can be hit by auspex scanner / forwarned or just the pod itself. As it stands it's a 50/50 argument.

We could also get the ability to move the unit when it gets out of the pod like normal before your turn ends. That would make them silly super effective, garunteed charges or melta / flamer ranges for units. But again your paying a lot for this extra ability, and need the space to do it.

Even just giving the "the models when they get out of the pod must be within 3" of the pod itself " and remove the "and over 9" away from enemy models" would help it a lot.

I don't see lowering it's cost as fixing it's roll, it's supposed to be an elite way of deep striking an enemy, something no other force in 40k does. And yet, it's the worst way to deep strike / come in from reserves in the game currently. A 50pt reduction isn't going to change that, though at 50pts I may consider it with a dev squad. . . Not likely but maybe. Or let me put my dreadnoughts back in it. They were good for tin can delivery to the front lines.

I don't understand why anyone thinks it would be good/fair to give SM drop pods the ability to DS your units closer than 9" while everyone else has to keep their distance with the same tools.

DS units in a taxi closer than 9" is nonsense.

 Lance845 wrote:
I don't understand why anyone thinks it would be good/fair to give SM drop pods the ability to DS your units closer than 9" while everyone else has to keep their distance with the same tools.

DS units in a taxi closer than 9" is nonsense.

It would be fluffy, dropping marines right in the thick of it. In a vacuum, I wouldn't have any problem with the pods staying 9 inches out, but allowing their occupants to disembark in any direction.

BUT ONLY if that were applied to every transport, deep striking or not. I.e. Trukks moving 12", then disembarking their occupants, who could then shoot and/or charge. The trukk could even advance before allowing the boyz out, but then the disembarkers are considered to have advanced.

Which is just as fluffy as close-in drop pods.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I don't understand why anyone thinks it would be good/fair to give SM drop pods the ability to DS your units closer than 9" while everyone else has to keep their distance with the same tools.

DS units in a taxi closer than 9" is nonsense.

It would be fluffy, dropping marines right in the thick of it. In a vacuum, I wouldn't have any problem with the pods staying 9 inches out, but allowing their occupants to disembark in any direction.

BUT ONLY if that were applied to every transport, deep striking or not. I.e. Trukks moving 12", then disembarking their occupants, who could then shoot and/or charge. The trukk could even advance before allowing the boyz out, but then the disembarkers are considered to have advanced.

Which is just as fluffy as close-in drop pods.

Fluff isn't crunch.

While I agree that Transport vehicles should be able to move/advance and then disembark (with the unit inside counting as having moved if the transport moved) the deepstrike distance of 9" is a very purposeful mechanic that has impact across the entire game. Melta range is short on purpose. Tau Commanders with their melta like guns with a 18" range drop JUST outside of the range needed for it to kick off it's melta like abilities. Most flamers are 8". That means deepstrikers drop in just far enough to avoid the flamers while needing a charge 2 inch larger then the roll of 7 on 2d6 (the most likely roll possible).

The crunch means that 9" range is basically perfect. Changing the DS distance for units to be shorter would drastically shift EVERYTHING in the game in ways that would make DS the ONLY thing worth doing.

Martel732 wrote:
Rumor has it, a 10 pt drop only. Insanity.

Exactly. Unless the restriction on where disembarking units can be set up is changed, pods are the worth 30 pts, let alone 85.

Lets compare real fast.

Drop Pod 93pts + 3? (can't find the point value of the bolter in my searches. Looks like 3 for the other option) (and a point drop coming to boot)
3+ save 3+ BS single weapon T6 8W
Transport 10 power armor bodies any mix of units including characters to support

Tyrannocyte 98 pts +25 for cheapest guns
4+ save 5+ WS/BS 5 guns T6 12W
Transport 20 infantry or 1 monster as a single unit. No character support for the unit inside at all. Would need a second pod.

So the drop pod has, less wounds but a better save going from the Tcytes 1/2 chance to save to the Pods 2/3.
The pod also has a 2/3 chance to hit with it's guns as opposed to the TCytes 1/3. TCyte has more shots but the Dpod has better range. The Tycyte can move however.

But as a transport? The pod wins drastically. It can pack in a base sized unit and up to 5 characters to buff or any mix of models up to 10. The Tcyte can only carry a single unit and not even a full sized one for our base troops. You can bring 9 warriors and use less then half its capacity or 20 termagants and loose out on 10 models in the unit.

So to recap here. TCytes nobody is complaining about for anything but the weird ass rules where we cannot bring multiple units up to a capacity (Cause 2 units of 9 warriors with a prime would be great). But drop pods are aparently the worst unit in existance for costing less, having a better transport for their army, and a significantly more reliable weapon due to higher BS.

But yeah, they are not worth 30 points apparently unless they can break the 9" barrier.

What a crock of gak.

 Lance845 wrote:
Lets compare real fast.

Drop Pod 93pts + 3? (can't find the point value of the bolter in my searches. Looks like 3 for the other option) (and a point drop coming to boot)
3+ save 3+ BS single weapon T6 8W
Transport 10 power armor bodies any mix of units including characters to support

Tyrannocyte 98 pts +25 for cheapest guns
4+ save 5+ WS/BS 5 guns T6 12W
Transport 20 infantry or 1 monster as a single unit. No character support for the unit inside at all. Would need a second pod.

So the drop pod has, less wounds but a better save going from the Tcytes 1/2 chance to save to the Pods 2/3.
The pod also has a 2/3 chance to hit with it's guns as opposed to the TCytes 1/3. TCyte has more shots but the Dpod has better range. The Tycyte can move however.

But as a transport? The pod wins drastically. It can pack in a base sized unit and up to 5 characters to buff or any mix of models up to 10. The Tcyte can only carry a single unit and not even a full sized one for our base troops. You can bring 9 warriors and use less then half its capacity or 20 termagants and loose out on 10 models in the unit.

So to recap here. TCytes nobody is complaining about for anything but the weird ass rules where we cannot bring multiple units up to a capacity (Cause 2 units of 9 warriors with a prime would be great). But drop pods are aparently the worst unit in existance for costing less, having a better transport for their army, and a significantly more reliable weapon due to higher BS.

But yeah, they are not worth 30 points apparently unless they can break the 9" barrier.

What a crock of gak.

Well, this comparison should be put under a bigger picture. Nids have many ways to let units move twice. So those 20 strong Genestealers (worth around 280pts right?) coming out of the TCytes will certainly make a 1st turn charge right? and they will kill basically anything they touch except SH units right?
Marines? Unless the pods are transporting 2 units of Devastators each with 4 Grav cannon (a total of 350pts) , then have at least a jump pack Chapter Master DS together with them, I think I would be really surprise if they did any significant impact against enemy army.
Remember 1 more thing, Droppod no longer have Obsec when taking Tactical Squad. So the toughness and armor save value advantage over TCytes is actually a dead weight.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Lets compare real fast.

Drop Pod 93pts + 3? (can't find the point value of the bolter in my searches. Looks like 3 for the other option) (and a point drop coming to boot)
3+ save 3+ BS single weapon T6 8W
Transport 10 power armor bodies any mix of units including characters to support

Tyrannocyte 98 pts +25 for cheapest guns
4+ save 5+ WS/BS 5 guns T6 12W
Transport 20 infantry or 1 monster as a single unit. No character support for the unit inside at all. Would need a second pod.

So the drop pod has, less wounds but a better save going from the Tcytes 1/2 chance to save to the Pods 2/3.
The pod also has a 2/3 chance to hit with it's guns as opposed to the TCytes 1/3. TCyte has more shots but the Dpod has better range. The Tycyte can move however.

But as a transport? The pod wins drastically. It can pack in a base sized unit and up to 5 characters to buff or any mix of models up to 10. The Tcyte can only carry a single unit and not even a full sized one for our base troops. You can bring 9 warriors and use less then half its capacity or 20 termagants and loose out on 10 models in the unit.

So to recap here. TCytes nobody is complaining about for anything but the weird ass rules where we cannot bring multiple units up to a capacity (Cause 2 units of 9 warriors with a prime would be great). But drop pods are aparently the worst unit in existance for costing less, having a better transport for their army, and a significantly more reliable weapon due to higher BS.

But yeah, they are not worth 30 points apparently unless they can break the 9" barrier.

What a crock of gak.

Well, this comparison should be put under a bigger picture. Nids have many ways to let units move twice. So those 20 strong Genestealers (worth around 280pts right?) coming out of the TCytes will certainly make a 1st turn charge right? and they will kill basically anything they touch except SH units right?
Marines? Unless the pods are transporting 2 units of Devastators with 4 Grav cannon (a total of 350pts) , then have at least a jump pack Chapter Master DS together with them, I think I would be really surprise if they did any significant impact against enemy army.
Remember 1 more thing, Droppod no longer have Obsec when taking Tactical Squad. So that is another punch to the Marines tbh.

Lets.

Nids have 1 way to make a unit move twice. It's the swarm lord (a 300 point model. So 280 for the stealers + 115ish for the pod and 300 for the SL = 695 point investment). He has a 9" m attribute and needs to be within 6" of the unit in order to use the ability that gives the extra move. In order to get the swarm lord into range with a unit of 20 GS that you deep strike with a Tcyte you need a second Tcyte to DS the Swarmlord (now a 810 investment). This is of course unless your opponent is an idiot and sets up the perfect positioning across from your swarmlord so he can move/advance himself to try to reach the correct range to reach the stealers. Keep in mind, doing this means he is leaving any Tyrant Guard you purchased way behind so the SL will likely be blasted into uselessness on the opponents first turn. Oh yeah! you were bringing the Swarmlord in a Tcyte, Bring a 3rd TCyte for his tyrant guard (now a 925 +105 for the guard). They don't fit in a pod with him since the pod can only bring a single unit and if that unit is a monster only a single model.

The other "method" is a stratagem that costs 1cp, you roll a d6 for each model in the unit and on a 6 the unit suffers a MW and they cannot shoot or charge this turn if you use it... so not relevant to the conversation really.

Nobodys dedicated transports have obsec anymore. Not another punch to the marines since it's a punch to everyone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I think is happening here is SM players have a system shock from their edition lag. You went from free transports at the end of 7th which had the best, most reliable, rules for drop pods in the game to having to pay points and get treated just like everyone else.

MAYBE you should compare what you have to other armies equivalents a little more often.

Your drop pod is pretty fairly priced for what it does. 30 point drop pods would be criminal.

Nice factual comparison on the pod/cyte, I hadn't thought of it that way.

Warrior-sized nids count as taking 3 spots in a tyrannocyte btw, so only a maximum of 6 will fit. The advantage the cyte has is that you can cram a monstrous creature in there. Hopefully chapter approved will level the playing field by allowing dreadpods again (and allow the cyte to carry mixed unit/character payloads while they're at it).

In 5th edition i ran 5 and 7 pods. Your awnser is 5th edition.

"Your drop pod is pretty fairly priced for what it does. 30 point drop pods would be criminal"

A 30 pt pod is still overpaying. Just saying.

" You went from free transports at the end of 7th which had the best, most reliable, rules for drop pods in the game to having to pay points and get treated just like everyone else. "

BA never had that. Try again.

 Lance845 wrote:
Lets compare real fast.

Drop Pod 93pts + 3? (can't find the point value of the bolter in my searches. Looks like 3 for the other option) (and a point drop coming to boot)
3+ save 3+ BS single weapon T6 8W
Transport 10 power armor bodies any mix of units including characters to support

Tyrannocyte 98 pts +25 for cheapest guns
4+ save 5+ WS/BS 5 guns T6 12W
Transport 20 infantry or 1 monster as a single unit. No character support for the unit inside at all. Would need a second pod.

So the drop pod has, less wounds but a better save going from the Tcytes 1/2 chance to save to the Pods 2/3.
The pod also has a 2/3 chance to hit with it's guns as opposed to the TCytes 1/3. TCyte has more shots but the Dpod has better range. The Tycyte can move however.

But as a transport? The pod wins drastically. It can pack in a base sized unit and up to 5 characters to buff or any mix of models up to 10. The Tcyte can only carry a single unit and not even a full sized one for our base troops. You can bring 9 warriors and use less then half its capacity or 20 termagants and loose out on 10 models in the unit.

So to recap here. TCytes nobody is complaining about for anything but the weird ass rules where we cannot bring multiple units up to a capacity (Cause 2 units of 9 warriors with a prime would be great). But drop pods are aparently the worst unit in existance for costing less, having a better transport for their army, and a significantly more reliable weapon due to higher BS.

But yeah, they are not worth 30 points apparently unless they can break the 9" barrier.

What a crock of gak.

Space marines can't move in the shooting phase.

If the swarmlord didn't exist, the tyranocyte would be worthless. But he does, so it has a use.

Space marines are not a melee focused army, nothing in the marine lineup can do what stealers do, or what the SL does. The drop pod is a useless piece of gak. It's bad.

 Lance845 wrote:
Lets compare real fast.

Drop Pod 93pts + 3? (can't find the point value of the bolter in my searches. Looks like 3 for the other option) (and a point drop coming to boot)
3+ save 3+ BS single weapon T6 8W
Transport 10 power armor bodies any mix of units including characters to support

Tyrannocyte 98 pts +25 for cheapest guns
4+ save 5+ WS/BS 5 guns T6 12W
Transport 20 infantry or 1 monster as a single unit. No character support for the unit inside at all. Would need a second pod.

So the drop pod has, less wounds but a better save going from the Tcytes 1/2 chance to save to the Pods 2/3.
The pod also has a 2/3 chance to hit with it's guns as opposed to the TCytes 1/3. TCyte has more shots but the Dpod has better range. The Tycyte can move however.

But as a transport? The pod wins drastically. It can pack in a base sized unit and up to 5 characters to buff or any mix of models up to 10. The Tcyte can only carry a single unit and not even a full sized one for our base troops. You can bring 9 warriors and use less then half its capacity or 20 termagants and loose out on 10 models in the unit.

So to recap here. TCytes nobody is complaining about for anything but the weird ass rules where we cannot bring multiple units up to a capacity (Cause 2 units of 9 warriors with a prime would be great). But drop pods are aparently the worst unit in existance for costing less, having a better transport for their army, and a significantly more reliable weapon due to higher BS.

But yeah, they are not worth 30 points apparently unless they can break the 9" barrier.

What a crock of gak.

No one is complaining about the Tcyte because its vastly better then a pod, despite its weird transport options.

Your facts are a little off. It has 5 Deathspitters(15 shots) . They are 24 Inch range for STR 5 -1 1 DMG. Yea, it hits on 5's but who cares. The pod is 24 inch range for 2 STR 4 shots unless in half for 4 shots. and the death wind missile is completely random, and garbage.

The Tcyte can also charge when it lands. Which is its main purpose. throw it at a unit to lock it up so your pod unit can charge it and not get shot. Or charge something else knowing another unit is locked up. Drop pod comes down and sits there being useless.

So yes, it should cost 30 points or so

shortymcnostrill wrote:

Warrior-sized nids count as taking 3 spots in a tyrannocyte btw, so only a maximum of 6 will fit.

Not according to my codex. Single infantry unit up to 20 models, or a single Monster up to 14 wounds. You can totally put a full squad of 9 Warriors in there.

---

As for Drop Pods, I used three of them in my SM army up until I began playing Tyranids.

In addition to the advantage of Deep Strike being completely predictable this edition. Heavy Weapons can be fired on the move with only a minor penalty, we get more access to re-rolls to hit and wound this edition, and you can assault from deep strike. All of which I've been able to capitalize on with Drop Pods. My list used 3, and they dropped 8 Grav Cannons and 8 Plasma Guns, plus a Chapter Master and Lieutenant. I had a lot of success with them.


Does this mean they are priced right? No. But 30 points a pod would be well underpriced, if you ask me.

Here's an idea that would change how the whole drop pod debate will work.

Don't change the price, let primaris use them. Now you have units that want to DS able to DS for a cost.

I would say as it stands a Pod is not worth it because the units you are dropping are never quite worth the price or there are better alternatives that already have DS