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Anyway went to a tournament as Tau because it was a team and they wanted another player. So okay I'll stick out three games of getting my ass kicked. Anyways nothing but Gulliman spammers and IG players and Chaos players at my meta tournament or not. So I got slaughtered all day. Even by a genestealer cults and IG team. I came in dead last at the tournament. Despite this three people still think the Tau are overpowered.

THREE PEOPLE! One of which played me and I managed to luckily get my Y'vahrah in position to kill two squads of genestealers and he was so upset that it was "so strong and overpowered". His IG ally destroyed the Y'vahrah before it ever got close enough to do much of anything. Actually that was more or less my entire army. Meanwhile one of the other never played me at all but knew crisis were super OP from a fried despite never fighting them. Against another IG I got tabled in turn one and managed to kill like 9 guys with my 1000 points. Didn't get a game three since no one showed for that match so I had to wait.

These are the kinds of people we have to deal with in the community. Online and in real life who will NEVER give the Tau a fair chance. If there are any GW people here by some slim chance. I need you to seriously reconsider listening to the most anti-Tau rabid idiots out there. Thanks.

Battlion
Commander
4 fusion
2 gun drones

Cadre Firebalde

Strike 5
Strike 5
Strike 5

Stealth Suit
1 fusion
2 gun drones

Pathfinder 10

Gun Drones 6

Y'vahrah
2mv 52 shield drones.

The store owner is getting sick of Gulliman always winning and no other army really stands a chance except another Gulliman. That's all it ever comes down to or maybe one IG player who can put up a fight.

I don't care about the players beating me. I don't care about losing. What I care about is this idea that Tau are overpowered. It needs to die in a fire at this point.

I'm not playing another game with Tau until they are fixed. It's simply a waste of time unless I go buy 3 more commanders which I don't want to do.

That sucks man, I have only played against T'au once in 8th. It was a lot to deal with. Especially that Stormsurge. But once I got my dudes in close combat, they died very fast. I still lost but it was mostly because I didn't have a LOW. That being said, I wouldn't say they are OP. Just hard to deal with at range.

Ranged Gulliman razorback spam w/ grav is the meta and the IG player's do good too with guardsmen or conscript spam supported by tanks. Chaos is viable at melee. That's all there is.

When cities burn, and armies turn, and flee in disarray,
Cowards cry: “T'is best to fly, and fight another day!”

But warriors know in their marrow, they shall die and fall
For it is better to have fought, and lost, then not have fought at all!

M.

I haven't played against tau in years, so I can't say from first hand experience if they are op or not.

Having said that, from what I have seen online in battle reports and reading the indexs I don't see tau as op. The only way I could see someone thinking that is if they brought a list that was mid range fire base (only effective at 12"-24") and then you showed up as tau, who are great at all ranges above 6" (because we all know tau can't fight in close combat reliably). Even in a straight shooting match at long range I would always put my money on Tau, but that's their thing. It would be like getting mad that imperial guard has a lot of tanks and cheap infantry. No duh.

I am sorry to hear you had to deal with whiners. I went to a FLGS the other week, one that I just discovered that is much closer than where I have been going and that has a very healthy following for 40k, and it was fine to a point. I wasn't there to play, just to feel the place out and see what the player base was like. Some cool guys, but there was one guy flipping at a table about "who came in when and why would they be allowed to do that, it's not right," kept going on and on loudly. I had to leave at that, I don't care for people who whine about op when thing's start going South.

Point is don't give up. You could go full "pinko Tau" (what my friends and I used to call power list building back in 5th) on them and show them what a truly powerful tau list looks like. But that's a lot of commanders lol.

this is why I will never go to a 40K tournament. I have zero desire to play these spam lists. Each to their own.

 bullyboy wrote:
this is why I will never go to a 40K tournament. I have zero desire to play these spam lists. Each to their own.

I don't want to play spam lists either, but that is all that is played here. Tournament time or not. I think I'll stick to modelling and painting 40k as well as the rpg's. My mini's were easily the best painted there though overall. Though a few people had some commissioned work but I painted my army on my own.

find or start a new gamer group thats more casual. Get a box of terrain, a collapsible table and a battle mat and host games in your house.

I am sure your not the only person in your local area that hates playing the same few BS lists over and over.

I think it's important to consider the mentality and the general setup of the tournament, and where you commonly play as a whole.

You have to expect people will bring strong lists to a tournament, ranging from decent to super-strong - and these may be original lists they've fine tuned, or simply a 'netlist' they know enough to pilot.
What kind of prizes were there?

Best to simply ignore the haters, stick around your friends and closer acquaintances at the event - and even whenever you go to a club/store to play.

Many players' attitudes towards Tau are still tainted by what the army was in 7th edition - a powerhouse.

You should still play - just against friends and cool people you know will bring more casual, fun lists.

I'm considering going to a tournament soon myself, I actually like playing against T'au. They have lot's of flavor. The local meta seems mixed. I've met several players from the area and only a couple play anything you'd see in a highly competitive scene.

One guy plays Dante + 6 Fire Raptors....now that's OP!

Also, if the owner is sick of it...why doesn't he make some changes?

Terminal wrote:
I think it's important to consider the mentality and the general setup of the tournament, and where you commonly play as a whole.

You have to expect people will bring strong lists to a tournament, ranging from decent to super-strong - and these may be original lists they've fine tuned, or simply a 'netlist' they know enough to pilot.
What kind of prizes were there?

Best to simply ignore the haters, stick around your friends and closer acquaintances at the event - and even whenever you go to a club/store to play.

Many players' attitudes towards Tau are still tainted by what the army was in 7th edition - a powerhouse.

You should still play - just against friends and cool people you know will bring more casual, fun lists.

Yeah but there are only two FLGS and just getting to this one is a long drive and the other is like an hour out and I know no one there but I hear its much the same. Super cheesy lists. That is all anyone plays in my town. If there are other groups out there who are more casual I haven't heard of them. Also all my friends and people I know aren't interested in playing it and have no desire or money or time. I don't have a lot of options in my small town here. As for my FLGS they had the soft ban on Tau for a long time before the players changed around. No one in the old group would even play Tau or talk to Tau players. So I'm not exactly in the best of company even in the one I go to. But these are the only option

Tau is just above the bottom of the meta right now. Above Necrons and unsouped Harlequins but below Orks and Dark Eldar.

Tau has one competitive powerbuild, but even commander-spam suffers from things like malefic-lords and such. As an Ork player I would love to play at your store. Orks are pretty average right now, but our own lonely competitive build is fairly good against the Girlyman parking lot and malefic lords spam. Against IG, not so much.

Regards

So Tau were soft banned in your meta and they also wouldn't talk to Tau players?

I'm sorry but feth those players and feth their attitude. For competitive, spam list players they certainly act like petulant children.

It's a shame that Tau are in such a bad and shoehorned spot right now, because Tau lists that go beyond the basic commander spam are actually really fun to fight (and I'd imagine really fun to play as, if they didn't get so shitstomped).

 Gamgee wrote:
Anyway went to a tournament as Tau because it was a team and they wanted another player. So okay I'll stick out three games of getting my ass kicked. Anyways nothing but Gulliman spammers and IG players and Chaos players at my meta tournament or not. So I got slaughtered all day. Even by a genestealer cults and IG team. I came in dead last at the tournament. Despite this three people still think the Tau are overpowered.

THREE PEOPLE! One of which played me and I managed to luckily get my Y'vahrah in position to kill two squads of genestealers and he was so upset that it was "so strong and overpowered". His IG ally destroyed the Y'vahrah before it ever got close enough to do much of anything. Actually that was more or less my entire army. Meanwhile one of the other never played me at all but knew crisis were super OP from a fried despite never fighting them. Against another IG I got tabled in turn one and managed to kill like 9 guys with my 1000 points. Didn't get a game three since no one showed for that match so I had to wait.

These are the kinds of people we have to deal with in the community. Online and in real life who will NEVER give the Tau a fair chance. If there are any GW people here by some slim chance. I need you to seriously reconsider listening to the most anti-Tau rabid idiots out there. Thanks.

Battlion
Commander
4 fusion
2 gun drones

Cadre Firebalde

Strike 5
Strike 5
Strike 5

Stealth Suit
1 fusion
2 gun drones

Pathfinder 10

Gun Drones 6

Y'vahrah
2mv 52 shield drones.

The store owner is getting sick of Gulliman always winning and no other army really stands a chance except another Gulliman. That's all it ever comes down to or maybe one IG player who can put up a fight.

I don't care about the players beating me. I don't care about losing. What I care about is this idea that Tau are overpowered. It needs to die in a fire at this point.

I'm not playing another game with Tau until they are fixed. It's simply a waste of time unless I go buy 3 more commanders which I don't want to do.

I don't know why people still think that the Tau are still overpowered, with the 8th Edition and whatnot.


In the past, perhaps, with Riptide spam and the now-legendary "Fish of Fury". But those days are long over.

IMHO tau weren't overpowered even in 7th edition where I sometimes could beat them with different lists of orks, SW and dark eldar even if the fishes usually were more competitive and have better odds. But tau weren't SM or eldar, they just were boring to face since many players just fielded the biggest robots and drones.

But now they're just an average army, at the moment they suffer a lot since several factions got a codex and having a codex is a big deal in this edition.

To be honest I'd rather play against competitive tau 7th edition lists than the current typical SM list based around guilliman, which I consider way more boring and dull.

The list I've run so far that has caused a few people issues, although your mileage may vary depending on army.

The core is a pair of Hammerheads and longstrike, equip as desired (Always give longstrike railgun at least) then babysit longstrike with crisis bodyguard. Because he is a character, you can use the bodyguard rule to palm off wounds from heavy ordnance and increase survivability. Always focus on Anti-tank first otherwise you'll chew through your bodyguard.

Azuza001 wrote:I haven't played against tau in years, so I can't say from first hand experience if they are op or not.

Having said that, from what I have seen online in battle reports and reading the indexs I don't see tau as op. The only way I could see someone thinking that is if they brought a list that was mid range fire base (only effective at 12"-24") and then you showed up as tau, who are great at all ranges above 6" (because we all know tau can't fight in close combat reliably). Even in a straight shooting match at long range I would always put my money on Tau, but that's their thing. It would be like getting mad that imperial guard has a lot of tanks and cheap infantry. No duh.

I am sorry to hear you had to deal with whiners. I went to a FLGS the other week, one that I just discovered that is much closer than where I have been going and that has a very healthy following for 40k, and it was fine to a point. I wasn't there to play, just to feel the place out and see what the player base was like. Some cool guys, but there was one guy flipping at a table about "who came in when and why would they be allowed to do that, it's not right," kept going on and on loudly. I had to leave at that, I don't care for people who whine about op when thing's start going South.

Point is don't give up. You could go full "pinko Tau" (what my friends and I used to call power list building back in 5th) on them and show them what a truly powerful tau list looks like. But that's a lot of commanders lol.

Tau don't do long range well anymore. All their best stuff is 18" or less.

Blackie wrote:IMHO tau weren't overpowered even in 7th edition where I sometimes could beat them with different lists of orks, SW and dark eldar even if the fishes usually were more competitive and have better odds. But tau weren't SM or eldar, they just were boring to face since many players just fielded the biggest robots and drones.

But now they're just an average army, at the moment they suffer a lot since several factions got a codex and having a codex is a big deal in this edition.

To be honest I'd rather play against competitive tau 7th edition lists than the current typical SM list based around guilliman, which I consider way more boring and dull.

Fighting against codex armies would be a lot easier if our index units weren't so horribly over costed. Besides that there are huge design problems with the way markerlights work and with the leader auras. It used to be that you were able to put enough dakka to take out key targets. Sure, it took a big chunk of your resources and you had to be careful with target priority, but now your expensive guns do nothing unless you somehow manage 5 hits of markerlight first, which further increases the resources needed to kill something. If enemy has a now very common -1 to hit modifier you might as well go with one markerlight only, as the rest do nothing or are situational. Then you have to deal with random number of shots and in some cases random amount of damage. All in all there is too many factors in dealing long range damage as Tau. Too many dice rolls to fail and too expensive units to be worth a try.

Terminal wrote:
I think it's important to consider the mentality and the general setup of the tournament, and where you commonly play as a whole.

You have to expect people will bring strong lists to a tournament, ranging from decent to super-strong - and these may be original lists they've fine tuned, or simply a 'netlist' they know enough to pilot.
What kind of prizes were there?

Best to simply ignore the haters, stick around your friends and closer acquaintances at the event - and even whenever you go to a club/store to play.

Many players' attitudes towards Tau are still tainted by what the army was in 7th edition - a powerhouse.

You should still play - just against friends and cool people you know will bring more casual, fun lists.

Sad if there's no demand there for softer more relaxed tournaments. It's not like it's even impossible for players to self-policy. Yesterday on 30k tournament I went and armies were generally pretty laid back without stuff people consider broken. Worst was numerous primarches but that's to be expected and it's not like those are uber monsters that deal with armies by themselves(best my Horus did was kill Alpharius...) and I have lost Horus to bog standard terminators with regular HQ.

No phospex artirelly, no near-invulnerable spartan with armoured ceramite and flare shield(so I might have been able to stop one actually...).

Tau hate is probably just a remnant of 7th tbh. I'm dreading the day they get a codex, mind, especially if codex creep so far is anything to go by.

 Gamgee wrote:
Ranged Gulliman razorback spam w/ grav is the meta and the IG player's do good too with guardsmen or conscript spam supported by tanks. Chaos is viable at melee. That's all there is.

Guilliman with Razorback spam is a good list, but the top is IG and Chaos in all its wonderful forms if you look at the bigger tournaments.

 ChazSexington wrote:
Tau hate is probably just a remnant of 7th tbh. I'm dreading the day they get a codex, mind, especially if codex creep so far is anything to go by.

 Gamgee wrote:
Ranged Gulliman razorback spam w/ grav is the meta and the IG player's do good too with guardsmen or conscript spam supported by tanks. Chaos is viable at melee. That's all there is.

Guilliman with Razorback spam is a good list, but the top is IG and Chaos in all its wonderful forms if you look at the bigger tournaments.

Discounting Atlanta, since it was an illegal list.

Skip tournaments and start looking for other players. Out of my large local group I've found about three guys I enjoy playing with because we have similar interests in game size/game type and army builds. End result? We have fantastic games. None of us spam stuff - we discuss strong units prior to the game, etc.

A wargame is very much a communal thing and a ton depends on who you're gaming with.

 Lance845 wrote:
find or start a new gamer group thats more casual. Get a box of terrain, a collapsible table and a battle mat and host games in your house.

I am sure your not the only person in your local area that hates playing the same few BS lists over and over.

I'll recommend this too. One has always the sentiment that no one around you want to play the game. But when you arrange games, put both armies, make gaming a social event, etc... you can start to have people interested in starting the game.
Look for facebook, etc... people in your town that plays but doesn't play in stores and do garage-hammer.

Is a heavy investment (I spend hundreds of euros in terrain and mats to have in my own house), but once you have it, theres no more the "My near FLG sucks and I don't want to play there, but is the only place I can play"

 Elbows wrote:

A wargame is very much a communal thing and a ton depends on who you're gaming with.

This is very true. The worst are the ultrasmug TFGs and people who don't at all know the rules. I'm wondering about my local playerbase, as yesterday I caught the first turn or so of a game here and the two were arguing about how many units could go into a transport...

Pretty basic stuff, guys...

M.

Here's the thing with games. They don't matter, they just don't matter. In the grand scheme of life, they're so un-important.

You don't get anything from winning a game, events or hell even 128 player events. Unless you're playing for life changing cash, the outcome of any game just doesn't matter. You don't get a life point every time you win a game and when you die you get a bonus for the more you have.

With that in mind, all that matters in a game is the time you spend inside it, as once it's over it doesn't matter. The hobby is a pure escapism tool and when I hear people turning it from pure enjoyment, downtime from life and general laughs to anything but that it bewilders me.

 Blackie wrote:
IMHO tau weren't overpowered even in 7th edition where I sometimes could beat them with different lists of orks, SW and dark eldar even if the fishes usually were more competitive and have better odds. But tau weren't SM or eldar, they just were boring to face since many players just fielded the biggest robots and drones.

But now they're just an average army, at the moment they suffer a lot since several factions got a codex and having a codex is a big deal in this edition.

To be honest I'd rather play against competitive tau 7th edition lists than the current typical SM list based around guilliman, which I consider way more boring and dull.

This basically. The majority of Tau hate boiled down to the Riptide Wing, especially slotted in with Eldar. Pure Tau were always a middling army, especially since 7th made rapid objectives more important.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Tau hate is probably just a remnant of 7th tbh. I'm dreading the day they get a codex, mind, especially if codex creep so far is anything to go by.

 Gamgee wrote:
Ranged Gulliman razorback spam w/ grav is the meta and the IG player's do good too with guardsmen or conscript spam supported by tanks. Chaos is viable at melee. That's all there is.

Guilliman with Razorback spam is a good list, but the top is IG and Chaos in all its wonderful forms if you look at the bigger tournaments.

Discounting Atlanta, since it was an illegal list.

The list itself was legal, the assignment of relics wasn't. And in all seriousness, an Astropath is 15 points. It's incredibly easy to shuffle for an extra Company Commander to make it legal.

I've lost to tau with my Astra Militarum on several occasions. The shooting is superior to my own and the armor saves combined with fly makes them slightly better in melee. AM tanks are still superior, but those giant rail rifles can core a leman russ a turn if they focus fire.

Tau are pretty good, but the forgeworld stuff can be over the top. I've seen riptides take apart twice their point value by jumping right into the middle of armored columns. The jump far enough away to use those 3d6 flamers, jump back in to engage and prevent tank counterfire.

Tau aren't the top tier, but of all the index armies they are easily the best of the remaining.

Gulliman is a separate issue. He's incredibly overpowered, but also an ultramarine, which means GW won't want to nerf him in any major way. I suspect primarchs and their 400pt equivalents are going to become a mainstay for chaos/imperium forces for a long time to come.

 AaronWilson wrote:
With that in mind, all that matters in a game is the time you spend inside it, as once it's over it doesn't matter. The hobby is a pure escapism tool and when I hear people turning it from pure enjoyment, downtime from life and general laughs to anything but that it bewilders me.

Most hobbies are one part escapism, another part application. I got into blacksmithing and lapidary last year, not just for the escapist part ("Forge me an iron dagger and a hide helmet") but for the mental enrichment aspect of it.

I got into 40k in theory for the mix of tactical and creative aspects. Yet with 40k going increasingly monopose and monoloadout, the second option feels diminished, while 8th's tactical game has been pretty much spelled out from the getgo.

 AaronWilson wrote:
Here's the thing with games. They don't matter, they just don't matter. In the grand scheme of life, they're so un-important.

You don't get anything from winning a game, events or hell even 128 player events. Unless you're playing for life changing cash, the outcome of any game just doesn't matter. You don't get a life point every time you win a game and when you die you get a bonus for the more you have.

With that in mind, all that matters in a game is the time you spend inside it, as once it's over it doesn't matter. The hobby is a pure escapism tool and when I hear people turning it from pure enjoyment, downtime from life and general laughs to anything but that it bewilders me.

This, 100x this. I get the same thing with MtG. People turn a hobby into a blood sport. It's just not cool.

Tau are overpowered. You need to git gud.