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2017/11/21 22:20:48
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Hi,
Regarding line of sight (LOS) am I correct in stating that models can never shoot through another unit (friendly or foe)? What if my model is a large model (i.e. Guilliman or a Land Speeder)--can those models see over a unit and shoot at a unit behind another (friendly or foe)?
Additionally what if a piece of terrain...say a small building (5" tall) is at the center of the board and behind this building a unit is hidden behind this wall (that I cannot see), but behind them is a dread...that I can clearly can see. Can I shoot at the dread?
Additionally when terrain (i.e. a ruined building) is on the board what denotes whether or not an enemy unit can see the unit hiding inside?
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2017/11/21 22:24:35
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Norn Queen
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From Stepping into a New Edition FAQ Q: How do I determine if a model is visible to another model? A: The models are visible to each other if you can draw a straight, uninterrupted line between any part of one model to any part of the other.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/21 22:24:46
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2017/11/21 22:56:37
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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BaconCatBug wrote:From Stepping into a New Edition FAQ
Q: How do I determine if a model is visible to another model?
A: The models are visible to each other if you can draw a straight, uninterrupted line between any part of one model to any part of the other.
I was under the impression that friendly or foe does not grant any obstructions for drawing LOS. The FAQ only addresses models that are partially obscured via terrain pieces with holes, no?
I.E. - just because you modeled a broadside on top of 12" pedestal that towers over all the terrains doesnt mean it can draw LOS to all units?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/21 22:58:30
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2017/11/22 00:24:30
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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Models do block LOS at times, though its very hard to completely block LOS with just a model in between the firing unit and the target.
Some vehicles are very good at blocking LOS though, such as a Land Raider.
It is perfectly possible to completely block LOS with a Land Raider for infantry models and such.
If the firing model cannot see any peice of the targeted unit then they cannot shoot at it, no matter what is obstructing LOS.
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2017/11/22 11:01:36
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Norn Queen
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skchsan wrote:I was under the impression that friendly or foe does not grant any obstructions for drawing LOS. The FAQ only addresses models that are partially obscured via terrain pieces with holes, no?
I.E. - just because you modeled a broadside on top of 12" pedestal that towers over all the terrains doesnt mean it can draw LOS to all units?
Your impression is wrong.
Page 179: "If unsure, stoop down and get a look from behind the shooting model to see if any part of the target is visible. For the purposes of determining visibility, a model can see through other models in its own unit."
Yes, you can do that with a broadside. It's called Modeling for Advantage and has always existed and always been permitted by the rules.
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2017/11/22 16:21:54
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.
M.
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2017/11/22 16:28:44
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Norn Queen
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Infantryman wrote:I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.
M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.
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2017/11/22 16:34:55
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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BaconCatBug wrote: Infantryman wrote:I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.
M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.
Hm hm...downside is kneeling guy couldn't shoot over walls, I'd think.
Also raises implications for Heavy Weapon Teams...
M.
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2017/11/22 17:00:40
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Good responses guys, thanks for adding color to my query--especially the modeling for advantage.
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2017/11/22 17:22:27
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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BaconCatBug wrote: Infantryman wrote:I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.
M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.
I recall several years back someone modelling an Alaitoc Wraithlord with a Bright Lance - he was holding the lance like a sniper rifle and was kneeling. It raised a big stink at the time about whether it counted as modelling for advantage, but it was a good looking conversion.
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2017/11/22 17:29:57
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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I seem to remember the way we did LOS back in "the day" was that a given model in a unit was the height of whomever was a normal standing individual - i.e. a kneeling Firewarrior in a squad could be hit and do hitting much the same as the standing one he's next to.
But, we didn't have issues of all-kneeling units...
M.
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2017/11/22 19:27:58
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Modelling for advantage may technically be allowed under the Rules as written, but it is extremely frowned upon and some tournaments have even gone so far as DQing people for it. Don't be that guy.
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2017/11/22 20:27:34
Subject: Re:Line of Sight (LOS)
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Im going to go buy a box of guardsmen and put them on a 13.99" pedestals so I can never be charged.
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2017/11/22 20:33:10
Subject: Re:Line of Sight (LOS)
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Lieutenant General
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skchsan wrote:Im going to go buy a box of guardsmen and put them on a 13.99" pedestals so I can never be charged...
... because you'll never be able to get a game with your models like that
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2017/11/22 20:56:55
Subject: Re:Line of Sight (LOS)
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Norn Queen
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skchsan wrote:Im going to go buy a box of guardsmen and put them on a 13.99" pedestals so I can never be charged.
That's not how it works because you measure base to base. Only LOS is from the model.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 20:57:06
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2017/11/23 04:49:02
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
McCragge
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Lol don’t be too silly. You won’t make many friends.
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Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. |
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2017/11/23 09:54:02
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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BaconCatBug wrote: Infantryman wrote:I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.
M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.
Well that at least isn't helpful in 8th ed since you measure from any point of the model. Simply measure LOS from the toe of the firewarrior.
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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2017/11/23 14:45:33
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Norn Queen
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tneva82 wrote: BaconCatBug wrote: Infantryman wrote:I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.
M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.
Well that at least isn't helpful in 8th ed since you measure from any point of the model. Simply measure LOS from the toe of the firewarrior.
Yeah but the kneeling firewarrior can hide behind rocks more easily, due to the exact reason you mentioned, LOS to any part of the model.
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2017/11/23 14:57:54
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Just an FYI to completely avoid confusion;
You CAN see through other models in your own unit! But that's it. Pg 179, 2. Choose Targets, first paragraph, last sentence.
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Galef wrote:If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors. |
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2017/11/23 19:22:04
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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BaconCatBug wrote:tneva82 wrote: BaconCatBug wrote: Infantryman wrote:I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.
M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.
Well that at least isn't helpful in 8th ed since you measure from any point of the model. Simply measure LOS from the toe of the firewarrior.
Yeah but the kneeling firewarrior can hide behind rocks more easily, due to the exact reason you mentioned, LOS to any part of the model.
He can also be more easily hidden from, since he can't see over the rock.
M.
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2017/11/24 13:32:01
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yeah, the way I see it, most of the time it balances out; if you can draw LoS to more stuff, more stuff can draw LoS to you. If you’re out of LoS of most things, your target options are going to be more limited. Of course there are ways to be a div about it, but just don’t play with those people.
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2017/11/24 15:01:46
Subject: Line of Sight (LOS)
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Yarium wrote:Just an FYI to completely avoid confusion;
You CAN see through other models in your own unit! But that's it. Pg 179, 2. Choose Targets, first paragraph, last sentence.
Correct. Models in other units can block line of sight, but you'd need a seriously thick screen or perhaps a boxy vehicle to avoid "any" line of sight being drawn from a firing model to the target. General squad sized models will not effectively block line-of-sight to models behind them, generally.
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