Switch Theme:

Line of Sight (LOS)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi,

Regarding line of sight (LOS) am I correct in stating that models can never shoot through another unit (friendly or foe)? What if my model is a large model (i.e. Guilliman or a Land Speeder)--can those models see over a unit and shoot at a unit behind another (friendly or foe)?

Additionally what if a piece of terrain...say a small building (5" tall) is at the center of the board and behind this building a unit is hidden behind this wall (that I cannot see), but behind them is a dread...that I can clearly can see. Can I shoot at the dread?

Additionally when terrain (i.e. a ruined building) is on the board what denotes whether or not an enemy unit can see the unit hiding inside?

   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






From Stepping into a New Edition FAQ

Q: How do I determine if a model is visible to another model?
A: The models are visible to each other if you can draw a straight, uninterrupted line between any part of one model to any part of the other.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/21 22:24:46


 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






 BaconCatBug wrote:
From Stepping into a New Edition FAQ

Q: How do I determine if a model is visible to another model?
A: The models are visible to each other if you can draw a straight, uninterrupted line between any part of one model to any part of the other.

I was under the impression that friendly or foe does not grant any obstructions for drawing LOS. The FAQ only addresses models that are partially obscured via terrain pieces with holes, no?

I.E. - just because you modeled a broadside on top of 12" pedestal that towers over all the terrains doesnt mean it can draw LOS to all units?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/21 22:58:30


 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






Models do block LOS at times, though its very hard to completely block LOS with just a model in between the firing unit and the target.


Some vehicles are very good at blocking LOS though, such as a Land Raider.


It is perfectly possible to completely block LOS with a Land Raider for infantry models and such.

If the firing model cannot see any peice of the targeted unit then they cannot shoot at it, no matter what is obstructing LOS.

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 skchsan wrote:
I was under the impression that friendly or foe does not grant any obstructions for drawing LOS. The FAQ only addresses models that are partially obscured via terrain pieces with holes, no?

I.E. - just because you modeled a broadside on top of 12" pedestal that towers over all the terrains doesnt mean it can draw LOS to all units?
Your impression is wrong.

Page 179: "If unsure, stoop down and get a look from behind the shooting model to see if any part of the target is visible. For the purposes of determining visibility, a model can see through other models in its own unit."

Yes, you can do that with a broadside. It's called Modeling for Advantage and has always existed and always been permitted by the rules.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Infantryman wrote:
I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.

M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Infantryman wrote:
I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.

M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.


Hm hm...downside is kneeling guy couldn't shoot over walls, I'd think.

Also raises implications for Heavy Weapon Teams...

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Good responses guys, thanks for adding color to my query--especially the modeling for advantage.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Infantryman wrote:
I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.

M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.


I recall several years back someone modelling an Alaitoc Wraithlord with a Bright Lance - he was holding the lance like a sniper rifle and was kneeling. It raised a big stink at the time about whether it counted as modelling for advantage, but it was a good looking conversion.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

I seem to remember the way we did LOS back in "the day" was that a given model in a unit was the height of whomever was a normal standing individual - i.e. a kneeling Firewarrior in a squad could be hit and do hitting much the same as the standing one he's next to.

But, we didn't have issues of all-kneeling units...

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Los Angeles, CA, USA

Modelling for advantage may technically be allowed under the Rules as written, but it is extremely frowned upon and some tournaments have even gone so far as DQing people for it. Don't be that guy.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Im going to go buy a box of guardsmen and put them on a 13.99" pedestals so I can never be charged.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 skchsan wrote:
Im going to go buy a box of guardsmen and put them on a 13.99" pedestals so I can never be charged...

... because you'll never be able to get a game with your models like that

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 skchsan wrote:
Im going to go buy a box of guardsmen and put them on a 13.99" pedestals so I can never be charged.
That's not how it works because you measure base to base. Only LOS is from the model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 20:57:06


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Lol don’t be too silly. You won’t make many friends.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Infantryman wrote:
I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.

M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.


Well that at least isn't helpful in 8th ed since you measure from any point of the model. Simply measure LOS from the toe of the firewarrior.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






tneva82 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Infantryman wrote:
I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.

M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.


Well that at least isn't helpful in 8th ed since you measure from any point of the model. Simply measure LOS from the toe of the firewarrior.
Yeah but the kneeling firewarrior can hide behind rocks more easily, due to the exact reason you mentioned, LOS to any part of the model.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Just an FYI to completely avoid confusion;

You CAN see through other models in your own unit! But that's it. Pg 179, 2. Choose Targets, first paragraph, last sentence.

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

 BaconCatBug wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Infantryman wrote:
I had been wondering if it would be more prudent for me to model all my important guys kneeling.

M.
It would be. I remember back in the day the Fish of Fury where people would use only the kneeling T'au Firewarriors to shoot underneath their Devilfish.


Well that at least isn't helpful in 8th ed since you measure from any point of the model. Simply measure LOS from the toe of the firewarrior.
Yeah but the kneeling firewarrior can hide behind rocks more easily, due to the exact reason you mentioned, LOS to any part of the model.


He can also be more easily hidden from, since he can't see over the rock.

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Yeah, the way I see it, most of the time it balances out; if you can draw LoS to more stuff, more stuff can draw LoS to you. If you’re out of LoS of most things, your target options are going to be more limited. Of course there are ways to be a div about it, but just don’t play with those people.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





 Yarium wrote:
Just an FYI to completely avoid confusion;

You CAN see through other models in your own unit! But that's it. Pg 179, 2. Choose Targets, first paragraph, last sentence.


Correct. Models in other units can block line of sight, but you'd need a seriously thick screen or perhaps a boxy vehicle to avoid "any" line of sight being drawn from a firing model to the target. General squad sized models will not effectively block line-of-sight to models behind them, generally.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: