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In the same way that GW allows retailers to sell their products, do FW do this at all? I'm pretty sure I know the answer but I had to make sure...

No.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, FW is just a brand name used by GW, not a separate company. GW does not sell their FW-branded items outside of the website and the GW HQ store, just like certain plastic kits are exclusive to the GW website.

 Peregrine wrote:
No.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, FW is just a brand name used by GW, not a separate company. GW does not sell their FW-branded items outside of the website and the GW HQ store, just like certain plastic kits are exclusive to the GW website.

Thought as much (a guy can dream though), thanks anyway.

Why does it matter so much? Just buy through the GW website.

Yep FW has never had any trade relationship with the retail market. Essentially any retailer would pay exactly the same price as a customer to order so there's no profit in it for the retailer; hence why they don't bother doing it.

Most suspect that the FW arm of GW isn't geared up for full mass production like GW is. As a result whilst FW has some very healthy sales (esp now) its not really setup to be able to supply and stock retail outlets and have a big jump in market.

 Peregrine wrote:
Why does it matter so much? Just buy through the GW website.

I do normally, however since black Friday is approaching and neither GW nor FW do a sale I've been looking at some other retailers to see if there are any good deals going.

 Peregrine wrote:
Why does it matter so much? Just buy through the GW website.

*shurg* discounts, cheaper postages. 15% results in rather steep shipping prices easily and many stores(pretty much all worthwhile ones anyway) have free shipping if you do like 30/40£ order which is much more easy to do than 250£

To be honest even if they did I'd be tempted to still buy from GW directly. FW stuff has hideous quality control so it's nice when you get a dud to just be able to ring up FW or send them a picture and have them straight away send out another one.

Why you think FW would have any worse customer service regarding retailer sales than GW has?

No, he means it's easier to deal with GW directly when it comes to problems with products than dealing with whichever third party he might have bought them from.

tneva82 wrote:
Why you think FW would have any worse customer service regarding retailer sales than GW has?

Well I don't know how it'd theoretically work if FW did sell through retailers, but in general a manufacturer is not obliged to deal with the customer directly unless they were the one to make the sale.

Of course some manufacturers will do so anyway to keep customers happy, but the usual process is manufacturer sells to distributor, distributor sells to retailer, retailer sells to customer, customer finds flaw, returns product to retailer, retailer gives it back to distributor, hopefully distributor has another one in stock otherwise it goes back to the manufacturer.

Manufacturers will sometimes deal directly with customers but on something like FW resin, which has abundant recasters across the globe, they aren't obliged to replace parts unless you bought it from them directly and they can look up the purchase number to verify that it was bought from them.

Laws and "the way things work" isn't uniform internationally. I've bought a few things from the UK over the years that have had the retailer put me directly onto the manufacturer to get my stuff sorted out.

Here in AU the law states that we go direct to the point of sale, but you're better off not assuming that the process is the same everywhere.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Why you think FW would have any worse customer service regarding retailer sales than GW has?

Well I don't know how it'd theoretically work if FW did sell through retailers, but in general a manufacturer is not obliged to deal with the customer directly unless they were the one to make the sale.

Of course some manufacturers will do so anyway to keep customers happy, but the usual process is manufacturer sells to distributor, distributor sells to retailer, retailer sells to customer, customer finds flaw, returns product to retailer, retailer gives it back to distributor, hopefully distributor has another one in stock otherwise it goes back to the manufacturer.

Manufacturers will sometimes deal directly with customers but on something like FW resin, which has abundant recasters across the globe, they aren't obliged to replace parts unless you bought it from them directly and they can look up the purchase number to verify that it was bought from them.

Well again seeing GW and FW are same company basically why you think FW would treat customers differently here? GW has never ever ever made any issues sorting me out with 3rd party purchaces. Meanwhile FW customer service as it is has been beyond call of duty.

I just don't see what reason there is to think customer service regarding FW models would be ANY LESS good with retailer purchaces than GW is. Frankly I suspect it would be handled by same guys in that case.

Yes maybe some other companies might work differently but this is GW and if GW has any truly stellar part it's definitely their customer service. I don't like their pricing system(I particularly hate their insistent on plastic everything resulting in 30€ characters), rules leave much to be desired(luckily FW provides better ones) and while models are technically good the new style leaves me cold(luckily they still sell plenty I like) but customer service? That I have never ever, EVER had any problem whatsoever. I have missing/broken something in my product, they send me replacement(sometimes whole model!) free. Whether it was straight from them or 3rd party(mostly 3rd party since I don't have GW store to visit!). FW meanwhile has done this even when they have had in no requirements whatsoever and nobody could hold them in any lower view even if they didn't _yet they specifically went out of their way to help me_.

I just don't see why the service quality would drop just like that. I could see if GW as a rule did so but since they don't...

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
No, he means it's easier to deal with GW directly when it comes to problems with products than dealing with whichever third party he might have bought them from.

Yeah. Especially in regards to Ebay sellers reselling Forge World stuff at a mark-up.


Just buy from Forge World's webstore, just to be on the safe side. That's my motto.

tneva82 wrote:
Well again seeing GW and FW are same company basically why you think FW would treat customers differently here?

They may, but...

1. They're not obliged to.

2. GW aren't plagued with recasters in the same way FW are. Obviously there's GW recasters as well, but it's not nearly as widespread of a problem because FW's manufacturing process is pretty much the same as any old garage recaster's manufacturing process. When FW start getting more returns than they make models it's problematic unless sales were made through their own website with a purchase number they can look up.

FW are a hand made, low volume, high cost and for whatever reason poor quality control endeavour.

Maybe FW would be fine, maybe they'd replace anything you have regardless of where you bought it.... but maybe they'll tell you "sorry, you'll have to take it back to the place where you bought it" and they'd be well in their rights to do so.

To be honest I've never had to return anything to GW from a 3rd party retailer that wasn't an official GW store, the only things I've ever had to return was finecast stuff which I bought from an actual GW.

My understanding was GW returns without a receipt from a GW were hit and miss, with their official policy being you need a receipt and need to return it to the store you bought it from, but unofficially they'd often take it back anyway. But I've definitely heard of people being knocked back due to a lack of a receipt.

In my experience, Forge World demand the original order number and delivery address - a little awkward if you got stuff in a group order in someone else's name.

A lot of russians on ebay sell FW which tends to be better quailty the direct order, I think they have quailty control. Also only charge once for fees.

 Overread wrote:


Most suspect that the FW arm of GW isn't geared up for full mass production like GW is. As a result whilst FW has some very healthy sales (esp now) its not really setup to be able to supply and stock retail outlets and have a big jump in market.

My understanding is that they cannot produce fast enough to stock their own stores (was told this as staff), so definitely couldn't reliably fulfill trade account demands. FW sales are actually a lot less healthy than you would imagine, which is why the team is so much smaller than it was five years ago. Increased production could potentially resolve that, if paired up with better qc and shipping options, but it doesn't seem to be a cost in finances or space that gw is willing to invest.

Honestly I thought FW was doing well with their new Horus Heresy stuff. Then again being direct order only and being famed for being expensive in the expensive end of the miniatures market probably does cut them down to only die-hard fans!

But I also think they shoot themselves in the foot because most of what they make is - Marines and more marines. A lot of xeno factions have very little (its clear that they love robots/machines because Tau - newboy army - has a huge roster whilst armies like Tyranids or Necron have far fewer choices and Dark Eldar have only two of which one is an upgrade kit)

 JamesY wrote:
FW sales are actually a lot less healthy than you would imagine, which is why the team is so much smaller than it was five years ago

It is? I thought with them handling specialist games they'd be doing alright. BB seemed to be a pretty big success.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
But I also think they shoot themselves in the foot because most of what they make is - Marines and more marines. A lot of xeno factions have very little (its clear that they love robots/machines because Tau - newboy army - has a huge roster whilst armies like Tyranids or Necron have far fewer choices and Dark Eldar have only two of which one is an upgrade kit)

I don't know whether FW focus so much on marines because it's the only thing that sells well, they are just so passionate about marines or it's the easy way out (a good sculpter can probably pump out a whole bunch of rhino doors in the same amount of time it takes to produce a single new and unique infantry sized model let alone a big monster).

But it has always seemed to me FW has the perfect opportunity to produce a large range of low volume models for lots of factions. Since GW culled resin, they can't afford to produce kits they don't think will sell lots, but FW could do that.

OgreChubbs wrote:
A lot of russians on ebay sell FW which tends to be better quailty the direct order, I think they have quailty control. Also only charge once for fees.

Also they are IP pirates, and we don't allow advocacy of IP violations on DakkaDakka.

No, they're just such fans of the hobby that they buy genuine Forge World models then sell them on for less than they paid for them.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
No, they're just such fans of the hobby that they buy genuine Forge World models then sell them on for less than they paid for them.

Ya because no one on here EVER sells for less then they bought them for... just don't go to the buying and trading section on dakka. Where people are seeling NIB, NOS models for less then retail, they are all recasts and should be reported -_-.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
No, they're just such fans of the hobby that they buy genuine Forge World models then sell them on for less than they paid for them.

Ya because no one on here EVER sells for less then they bought them for... just don't go to the buying and trading section on dakka. Where people are seeling NIB, NOS models for less then retail, they are all recasts and should be reported -_-.

That's an awful lot of stuff they've bought and are selling on. Poor fella's, they must be really short of cash...

Yeah there's a huge difference between random people selling on unused models and single ebay stores selling repeat FW products brand new at lower than FW prices.


Also note that those selling unused secondhand goods at significantly lower than retail are only after fast sales; many will sell or trade closer to retail (or at least the 20% off retail that 3rd party retailers sell at).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
FW sales are actually a lot less healthy than you would imagine, which is why the team is so much smaller than it was five years ago

It is? I thought with them handling specialist games they'd be doing alright. BB seemed to be a pretty big success.

BB is citadel. Whilst fw are doing a few upgrade kits and star players, it doesn't amount to much actual turnover.

It's Specialist Games, which is under the Forge World umbrella (albeit with plastic miniatures, and sold via the main GW channels).

All of which is irrelevant, unless GW's financial reports split the revenue up by brand.

Basically you've got three channels for FW. FW directly, whatever is available secondhand on eBay, and Forgery World.

In most cases buying directly from FW is preferable, because of their customer service, unless there's a specific OOP or event model you're after, in which case eBay is the better option. eBay is also better when you're after a specific bit and not a full kit. A couple of weeks ago I was looking for holstered laspistols for my DKoK-project, so I was very happy to find them on eBay. The alternative would have been to purchase multiple accessory kits from FW, just for this one bit.

 Zingraff wrote:
Basically you've got three channels for FW. FW directly, whatever is available secondhand on eBay, and Forgery World.

In most cases buying directly from FW is preferable, because of their customer service, unless there's a specific OOP or event model you're after, in which case eBay is the better option. eBay is also better when you're after a specific bit and not a full kit. A couple of weeks ago I was looking for holstered laspistols for my DKoK-project, so I was very happy to find them on eBay. The alternative would have been to purchase multiple accessory kits from FW, just for this one bit.

How have I never seen the term Forgery World before? Excellent. I'd order more things from Forge World, but the shipping is high and the quality is always a risk. For every quality product, I've gotten another with massive mold slips and bubbles.