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Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman



Tampa, Florida

In order to make it even remotely fair, assume the 40k faction cannot just obliterate us all from space. Their fleet assets can deliver ground troops and equipment only. The 40k faction does have access to all the inter atmosphere aircraft and vehicles a force of their size would normally have plus a few superheavies.

An ork Waaagh of 50 million orks. (They can spawn more as normal.)

One chapter of Marines.

An Eldar Craftworld. (Honestly I don't know how many Eldar warriors and vehicles a Craftworld has, but I assume it's a few hundred thousand guys and a couple hundred tanks and planes.)

30 regiments of Imperial Guard.

A splinter fleet of Tyranids numbering about 50 million creatures. (They can make more as normal.)

A Tau expansion fleet. (They are not here to negotiate, just kill)

1000 Chaos Marines. (Limited Daemonic support)

I'm going to say we survive except against Tyranids, Chaos, and maybe Tau because of air power. It doesn't seem like any of these 40k groups would have enough air assets to deal with the thousands and thousands of tactical aircraft that inhabit 2017 Earth. I think they would do solid work on the ground against infantry and tanks, but I doubt power armor and bolters would hold up long against repeated missile barrages from drones flying 30,000 feet up. Tyranids could probably just crash gargoyles into jet engines to silence the threat while happily gobbling up biomass to produce more gribblies. Chaos could subvert huge chunks of the population or riddle them with disease. Tau seem like they would be capable of blasting a lot of planes out of the sky to even up the ground war.

What's your take dakka?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/27 08:57:46


 
   
Made in pl
Elite Tyranid Warrior





We definitely do not have a chance against Tyranids. As to the rest - if we somehow can cripple their starships we can win.
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut





IandI wrote:
In order to make it even remotely fair, assume the 40k faction cannot just obliterate us all from space. Their fleet assets can deliver ground troops and equipment only. The 40k faction does have access to all the inter atmosphere aircraft and vehicles a force of their size would normally have plus a few superheavies.

One chapter of Marines.

30 regiments of Imperial Guard.

1000 Chaos Marines. (Limited Daemonic support)



Just one question. Why you limit stuff artificially? Marines wouldn't be invading planet without IG support. Similarly doubtfully chaos marines just go around 1000 strong and invade alone. They too would have support elements. If Imperium would come here it would be IG regiments forming up main bulk, imperial navy for air support and marines for shock troops used to attack say our HQ/missile silos/etc in lightning fast hit&run attacks(drop in, take out, get back to fleet, repeat)

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Made in de
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman





With the applied limits, humanity would probably beat all factions through sheer atrition. The combined nations of the Earth can mobilize hundreds of millions of able-bodied men (app. 100 million soldiers fought in WW2, and the global population has almost tripled since then), and I don't think your average Pakistani conscript with a G3 is going to perform much worse than your average Guardsman with a lasgun.

Orks and Tyranids could be tricky, if we don't figure out their multiplying process fast enough.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/27 10:47:53


 
   
Made in gb
Agile Revenant Titan






Aside from the Marine factions (too few) and perhaps the Guard depending on how big a regiment is, we don't really have the capability to defend ourselves properly against the other factions you've mentioned.

Craftworlds have billions of eldar. They're a dying race on a galactic scale, but each craftworld has a sizeable population. Certainly enough to mobilise enough forces to capitalise on their technological advantage.

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Flashy Flashgitz





Dorset, England

The established background often has Space Marines at sub-chapter strength pacifying entire worlds of humans, and the disunited nature of the 2017 Earth would make it very easy to play one nation off against one anther and pick off isolated nations. (Remember Space Marines are all incredibly gifting strategists and diplomats by human standards)

They also have other advantages like exploiting our unwillingness to tolerate civilian casualties, reliance on an integrated global economy, clumsiness in redeploying military forces throughout the globe etc.

So whilst I agree with the others that if they all landed in one place we could probably liquidate them (dependant on how good power armour is I suppose), I don't think we would ever get such a chance!
   
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Focused Fire Warrior




Eastern Fringe

Of course not. We would be smashed. Even if we did put up a fight we would end up destroying ourselves and our planet by going nuclear.

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Agile Revenant Titan






 Kroem wrote:
The established background often has Space Marines at sub-chapter strength pacifying entire worlds of humans, and the disunited nature of the 2017 Earth would make it very easy to play one nation off against one anther and pick off isolated nations. (Remember Space Marines are all incredibly gifting strategists and diplomats by human standards)

They also have other advantages like exploiting our unwillingness to tolerate civilian casualties, reliance on an integrated global economy, clumsiness in redeploying military forces throughout the globe etc.

So whilst I agree with the others that if they all landed in one place we could probably liquidate them (dependant on how good power armour is I suppose), I don't think we would ever get such a chance!


There's a long-standing debate as to whether the official fluff for Space Marines is in the least way believable as to whether they can pacify any world above a feudal agri-world via military force. I don't want this to devolve into that debate again, but for what it's worth I'm in the 'it's ridiculous to the point of breaking suspension of disbelief' camp.

I do like the idea of them going about it by pitting existing factions against each other. Imagine what Trump would do if supermen from outer space offered to build his mexico-wall...

If it's an out-and-out war, the Marines are hopelessly outmatched. They're a propaganda tool, not an army.

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Made in fr
Dakka Veteran




At the moment I don't think any state could protect their leaders from a SM assault: if they dropped a few dropods on the white house and pentagon, they could probably kill everyone on site pretty quickly.
Killing the person in charge and start giving out orders right away is often sufficient to seize control (that's what happens in many coups). That might be a way for a limited number of SM to conquer countries. They wouldn't have the troops to maintain a military ruling by themselves, but if they found a way to have the earth military to work for them (by finding a good puppet to do their bidding), it could work.
   
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Executing Exarch






Against what you've listed? Absolutely. Sheer numbers and, if needed, nuclear weapons.

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nope no chance, we have no way to counter but sit here and yell at the sky.

We have gak tech to get to space and as soon as someone would make one able to get far the other country around here would turn on each other because they are getting ahead of us. Long story short we too dumb to do anything we less then orks. Hell even they can work together.

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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Kapuskasing, ON

Invasions by most of those armies would come in far larger numbers. I mean, 50 million orks? Rofl that's not even enough for them to saturate a single planet before gaining the urge to migrate in a waaaaaagh! Orks migrate in far massive numbers. Let alone Nids. ....

The fluff does say chapters are 1000. Terrible grasp of scale. The 1000 would lose to those other limited invasions let alone Earth. But in their benefit is these same tiny numbers. I imagine they can do quite a bit of damage in localized areas and even operate for quite awhile before we even realize we are being invaded. But at best it would keep us occupied until the true invasion of billions came.

Edit add: whoah wait.....a whole craft world! Like the whole thing came? There's more eldar in those then you realize plus all their best toys. I don't think they'd need to set foot on the planet to win if one of those came close. The gravity problems alone....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/27 15:40:53


 
   
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Williamsburg VA

Apparently the new GK chapter would struggle taking over El Salvador. Or at least that’s how GK players make them sound. Pretty bad.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





Earth survived after Eldar invaded. We just never noticed. Or rather, that's what we've been lead to believe.

They don't even hang out on Terra itself anymore. They found this place boring. They did their manipulations, and moved on.

Note that a CWE warhost or strikeforce is not typically the entire Craftworld. There are times that happens, but A Craftworld would tend to be involved in many things at any given time.

2017 Earth fighting CWE also wouldn't be humans shooting at space elves. It'd be different factions of Earth pitted against eachother until we destroyed ourselves. If they got desperate, they'd probably send in a few strikeforces to jumpstart thermonuclear war.
   
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon




Vigo. Spain.

Theres no way we can do anything agaisn't any of those forces.

One said that a Guardsmen with a Lasgun isn't better than a random militiaman with an AK or something similar. Thats just wrong.

The Lasgun a Guardsmen carries can be overcharged to destroy one of our tanks in a single shoot. The weapons in warhammer40k are so Overpowered we can't even compete with their most basic weaponry.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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The Last Chancer Who Survived




On moon miranda.

To put stuff in context, 40k is a Fantasy setting with a SciFi skin, when you introduce the real world, they all break down quickly.

Barring orbital bombardment, most factions would fare...poorly against modern armies. Space Marines, while powerful, and hilariously limited in number and are vulnerable to common real world weapons as shown countless times in the fluff. For all their technomagic, the Eldar have nothing like long range radsr or GPS guided artillery or BVR anti aircraft weapons. The Guard are incomprehensibly organized and a Russ Tank physically couldnr work in real life (the breech of the gun take up the entire turret, even in FW drawings, theres no room for crew or ammo), etc ad nauseum. A real world tank can roll over rough ground at highway speeds and hit another tank moving at highway speeds at night more than 90% of the time with rounds that can penetrate a meter or more of solid armor, no 40k faction boasts anything like that capability, on the table or in the fluff.

A Space Marine chapter would be quickly isolated and destroyed in detail with a maximum of a thousand warriors. Thirty Regiments of Imperial Guard would be fewer troops than were engaged in the Gulf war and with dramatically less impressive capabilities.

The real world would roll over most 40k factions extremely easily. 40k factions, at their most advanced, work like WW2 armies with SciFi paintjobs, many are far more primitive. They work in a Fantasy universe, but not when the real world is applied.


 Galas wrote:

The Lasgun a Guardsmen carries can be overcharged to destroy one of our tanks in a single shoot. The weapons in warhammer40k are so Overpowered we can't even compete with their most basic weaponry.
...wat? Since when is a Lasgun even remotely capable of such a feat...? Where is this coming from?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/27 16:22:58


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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon




Vigo. Spain.

Lexicanum wrote:The lasgun uses the same basic technology and operates along the same lines as other laser weapons, emitting a beam of focused light. The high amount of energy in the beam causes the immediate surface area of a target to be vaporized in a small explosion[1]. It is a relatively unimpressive weapon when compared to other weapons in the Imperium, but is still capable of cleanly severing limbs or piercing the power armour of a Space Marine


And it should be noted, thats without overcharging the Lasgun.
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/3x1mi9/are_lasguns_underrated/

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/3uxyez/lasgun_strength_and_penetration/

Laser weaponry and Lasguns are better than any Infantry-Weaponry we have today. Much more reliable, "infinite" amunition, much more penetration and explosive power. The basic lasgun has 19 Megathules of power in everyone of their shots as stated by the 3.5 edition Guard Codex. A Megathule is the equivalent of a Megajoule.
To put a real world example:
A similar fate was another innovative project of the Navy: the rail gun, which uses the magnetic field to accelerate a projectile to more than seven times the speed of sound.
Using this technology, it is not necessary to equip the projectiles with explosives, since their kinetic energy would suffice to destroy a ship or a coastal fortification.
The tests achieved a maximum of 32 megajoules of force, which theoretically would allow the destruction of targets at a distance of 200 kilometers.


A Lasgun has nearly 60% of the power of the most advanced Rail Weapon that we have today (Still in developement, of course, and we have much better weaponry. But is to put in context the power of a Lasgun). So yeah. A single, overchared lasgun shoot can explode one of our modern tanks.

Of course this comes down to Warhammer40k authors having no clue about scale. Just like Tyranids go agaisn't the laws of termodinamics and biology, the war-technology of the setting is absurd. But ey, it is what it is. We can't just assume things are less powerfull than what they are written because it interest our interpretation of the lore.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/11/27 16:49:47


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I'm honestly not that afraid of 40k weaponry since the majority of it only has a range of 96 feet. Even the longest range weaponry (120" on tabletop) is a pitiful 480 ft.

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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I'm honestly not that afraid of 40k weaponry since the majority of it only has a range of 96 feet. Even the longest range weaponry (120" on tabletop) is a pitiful 480 ft.


Isn't the Earthshaker 240"?

Still, though.

M.

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
pismakron wrote:

Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels.
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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Yokosuka, Japan

fresus wrote:
At the moment I don't think any state could protect their leaders from a SM assault: if they dropped a few dropods on the white house and pentagon, they could probably kill everyone on site pretty quickly.
Killing the person in charge and start giving out orders right away is often sufficient to seize control (that's what happens in many coups). That might be a way for a limited number of SM to conquer countries. They wouldn't have the troops to maintain a military ruling by themselves, but if they found a way to have the earth military to work for them (by finding a good puppet to do their bidding), it could work.


And then the nearest airbase drops a couple missiles on them and the marines are all dead. The DoD is an enourmous institution and has enough rank structures to easily survive any initial assaults. And that's assuming the Marines could even figure out they needed to target the Pentagon and the White House.

Marines simply aren't tough enough and come in too small numbers to be anything but point of the spear limited use troops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
Theres no way we can do anything agaisn't any of those forces.

One said that a Guardsmen with a Lasgun isn't better than a random militiaman with an AK or something similar. Thats just wrong.

The Lasgun a Guardsmen carries can be overcharged to destroy one of our tanks in a single shoot. The weapons in warhammer40k are so Overpowered we can't even compete with their most basic weaponry.


Unfortunately the fluff is so variable on that, you can't really be sure. Humans often survive lasgun shots, so they can't be that strong normally. Hell, humans in the fluff survive BOLTER rounds, which sound kill them by hydrostatic shock alone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/28 02:17:24


 
   
Made in sg
Dakka Veteran





Depends on how smart the enemy plays it. If Chaos is Alpha legion. They infiltrate our society first. Then form cults. When their fleet finally appear over our atmosphere, the cults will all rise up at the same time proclaiming the dawn of end times, and to glory in the chaos gods.

Then all they have to do, is to use some shock and awe tactics. Hit all the major capitals around the world, have terminators teleport directly into the heart of the white house, etc.

If half the the world's armies tear themselves apart fighting the other half, supported by chaos space marines and some summoned daemons (just to complete the despair and shock and awe campaign). Then there's a good chance earth will fall into anarchy.

We won't go quietly. But in such a situation, its a good chance the planet will still fall to chaos. You have to consider what would happen to people's faith in general if 1000 chaos space marines showed up suddenly out of space and show that they have arcane magic, ancient technology, psychic powers, plus they can summon in real live daemons, and they have Daemon princes too.

If the good side doesn't show up with saints and angels. Humanity may well crumble. Just the hit on all religions may be enough. Imagine half the world turning to chaos worship because daemons are now real. Chaos doesn't need to obliterate us (although they could still have that in mind), they just have to make us fall in chaos.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/28 03:21:09


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I am not sure what would happen if the 40K faction destroyed all satellites before deploying but it seems well within their capabilities. I don't know what affect that that would have on military operations but if it isn't much then;

I could see both Orks and Tyranids winning but they'd be relying on replenishing their numbers. An Eldar Craftworld should be able to do it (Psychic powers especially predicting the future combined with superior manoeuvrability would count for a lot). Can't really see the Imperial Guard (insufficient numbers for taking on an entire planet). or the Space Marines (definitely insufficient numbers) actually achieving victory. Tau I don't think have the numbers either. One thousand Chaos Space Marines is likely too limited to do much unless they play the long game and are very subtle and even then I don't seem managing to displace native religions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/28 09:16:11


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





The answer to this, as with many questions is... "it depends".

Tyranids
I don't think we stand a chance, even if one turned up on the planet in anything other than the middle of a military base. They'd be impervious to most citizens small arms fire, and would pick off outlying people. They can multiple, mutate and consume anything. They can also infect local flora and fauna and mutate them too.
If it was genestealers we'd struggle too, as it's more a slow covert change. It could happen anywhere in the world... and once they're in the human looking stage they can migrate across the country and infect lots of people.
When I REALLY think about Tyranids, they truly terrify me. All they want to do is liquidize me and eat me. Everyone gets "infected" with spores and even my house plants would want to eat me eventually.

Chaos
If it's Alpha legion I agree with the cultist theory above. There's lot of places to hide.
If it's something like Nurgle marines, we'd have huge plagues on hand that will just kill or enslave everything before we realized what was going on.
Khorne, would probably struggle a little, as 1,000 marines isn't much and we'd probably kill them through attrition.
Slaanesh, might have a cult following as above, or get drugs into all our cities or something.

Imperial Guard
They'd probably lose, as they're better at defensive actions, unless they're supported with other imperial forces and logistics.
An Autogun or a stubber are analogous to our normal guns aren't they? Lasguns are meant to be comparable to autoguns in power in the game. In the fluff, it might be different, but inconsistently reported.

Orks,
The problem with Orks is due to their fungal natures, they keep coming back. So we might be able to keep them in check, but it would be a really hard slog. Also the harder we fight, the strong they get. So if they couldn't reinforce from elsewhere we might win, but we'd never kill them all!

Space Marines,
1,000 space marines would do a lot of damage... I imagine they have thunderhawk gunships, speeders, drop pods, rhinos etc. They should shrug off small arms fire, but when we start dropping tactical nukes, bunker busters etc on them, we can take them out. They'd be spread too thinly to be of use though.
Would need more space marines for the entire planet. I think the ingame version of space marines are underpowered on an individual basis compared to their reputation, so one or the other has to be wrong.

Eldar
Wouldn't be a craftworld, but if it was more limited, I think we'd struggle. They're fast and can reposition. They also have the webway! We'd be able to kill a lot of them, but I think their enhanced ability to see the future and crush our will with psykers will be hard to resist.

Tau
I don't know that much about them, but I think they'd get a lot of support from human nations. They don't seem that bad really in comparison to the others and we'd probably surrender as they'd gift us technology aslong as we joined them.


I probably think the hardest things for real life humans to fight against will be any psykers. We are just not prepared for them. We don't know how to react, we're not used to it, we have nothing to compare to it and no defences.

What is the agenda of the attacks and would the entire planet Earth resist?

I can see Space Marines and IG would want to subjugate us. They would offer terms of surrender, which many people may accept. We'd have to change worship of our gods for the Emperor. We'd become feudal probably too, but we'd probably be left to govern ourselves as long as we gave the tithe.

Chaos is dependent upon who or what they worship. They would offer slavery or death, but not a degree of freedom underneath their boots. Some might give in to slavery.

Tyranids are an all or nothing affair. We'd fight to the death.

Tau and Eldar might just want to subjugate us. I can't see them wanting to just wipe us out for the hell of it.

Orks are also probably an all or nothing affair, although I can imagine us working as slaves for them if we lose, but we wouldn't choose it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/28 12:29:59


 
   
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We would totally destroy them of course. The longest range weapons in 40k still cannot shoot further than about 300 meters. We would just outrange them with artillery.

Apart from that, Space Marines run around in massive brightly coloured suits, and their pauldrons are so big that they cannot lift their arms. They would be annihilated.
   
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 Galas wrote:
The basic lasgun has 19 Megathules of power in everyone of their shots as stated by the 3.5 edition Guard Codex. A Megathule is the equivalent of a Megajoule.


Uh, no. First of all, you have no justification for making that equivalence. The fact that two words sound kind of similar does not mean they are identical in meaning. Second, lasguns do not have bunker-destroying firepower because we have seen the effects of lasguns on unarmored human flesh. They don't vaporize a whole soldier and carve a crater in the hill behind him, they cause wounds roughly on par with real-world rifles. The inescapable conclusion here is that "megathule" and "megajoule" are not equivalent, and lasguns are effectively real-world rifles with much better logistics.

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Glasgow

Given the wild variations in terms of fluff, you probably have to rephrase the question along the lines of 'Could 2017 Earth Survive an invasion by X 40k Faction as presented in Y novel/codex/supplement/whatever?' You'd also have to draw a distinction between fluff and in-game sources - clearly the latter vastly reduces weapon capabilities so we don't have to exclusively play apocalypse games in car parks in order to have them last more than one turn of shooting.

And then depending on the faction and source selected, the answer is going to range from 'almost without noticing' to 'no chance whatsoever'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/28 12:58:40


 
   
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And let us not forget, that the fastest moving ground vehicles in 40k only has a top speed of slightly more that twice the running speed of your average soldier.

And even the fastest aircraft in 40k are no more than about five times as fast as Usain Bolt. They wouldn't stand a chance. Any real life third world militia in Toyota Hiluxes could destroy entire chapters of space marines before tea.
   
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Saff-end, mate.

We do have examples of lasguns killing Space Marines and blasting open Dreadnought sarcophagi.

In Gaunt's Ghosts, they can overcharge lasguns to deposit all their energy in one shot, which can take a Space Marine's head off, or literally blast open the casing of a Dreadnought. It's not efficient, but given that lasgun batteries recharge in sunlight or in an open fire, they're incredibly reliable and versatile weapons.

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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
We do have examples of lasguns killing Space Marines and blasting open Dreadnought sarcophagi.

In Gaunt's Ghosts, they can overcharge lasguns to deposit all their energy in one shot, which can take a Space Marine's head off, or literally blast open the casing of a Dreadnought. It's not efficient, but given that lasgun batteries recharge in sunlight or in an open fire, they're incredibly reliable and versatile weapons.


This could be taken both ways, lasguns are strong or space marines are weak.

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 Peregrine wrote:
 Galas wrote:
The basic lasgun has 19 Megathules of power in everyone of their shots as stated by the 3.5 edition Guard Codex. A Megathule is the equivalent of a Megajoule.


Uh, no. First of all, you have no justification for making that equivalence. The fact that two words sound kind of similar does not mean they are identical in meaning. Second, lasguns do not have bunker-destroying firepower because we have seen the effects of lasguns on unarmored human flesh. They don't vaporize a whole soldier and carve a crater in the hill behind him, they cause wounds roughly on par with real-world rifles. The inescapable conclusion here is that "megathule" and "megajoule" are not equivalent, and lasguns are effectively real-world rifles with much better logistics.


Sgt_Smudge has already answered you, and the most consistend wound of a lasgun in a unarmored human flesh is the explosion of entire limbs by overheating the liquid fluids of the body, but that a Megathule is equivalent to a Megajoule was said by a BL author. Of course you can say thats isn't canon. And I'll say, ok. At the end of the day Warhammer40k is very inconsistend and one day a Lasgun explodes a Dreadnought and other day it just stings like a bee.


Now, answering again the first question. I think we can't do anything agaisn't any Warhammer40k force. We have no space defenses and no space offensive capabilities. Any kind of Nuke we can launch will just be stoped by their void shields or equivalents. They can bombard us to death without anything we can do to stop them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/28 16:10:10


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
 
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