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I just wondered if there's any source that deals with this? I've not been able to find anything and I was just curious. I was thinking specifically of Ministorum Priests, but Ecclesiarchy-wide or other branches is also interesting.

No evidence in the fluff as far as I know. There's a holdover assumption from real life that priests and nuns are celibate, but it doesn't appear to carry through.

Doesn't mean your order can't be if you want, but there's no all-pervading decree that they are or aren't.

Service to the emperor is a hands on job. Maybe thats why everyone seems to need cybernetic eyes ...

Everyone has cybernetic eyes because they're cool. Plus they get to say "eye see".

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
No evidence in the fluff as far as I know. There's a holdover assumption from real life that priests and nuns are celibate, but it doesn't appear to carry through.

Doesn't mean your order can't be if you want, but there's no all-pervading decree that they are or aren't.

That's what I figured. I guess I should also specify whether they can marry. I'm not even sure the Brides of the Emperor couldn't wed a normal human.

I've never seen any sources to indicate whether they are celibate or not, but I'll admit I've always believed that they are, after all they're basically Catholics/ Eastern Orthodox. Also celibacy seems to be a big thing in the Imperium, Space Marines is a notable example, and I don't imagine those enrolled in the Imperial Guard get married either, in part due to the travels they embark on. Warp travel will sometimes result in being displaced in time, and that sort of thing will make having a personal life difficult.

However, the Galaxy is a big place, and as always with these things there are going to be local practices. I see no reason why married vicars shouldn't exist in some parts of the Imperium.

I do not know whether or not SoB are celibate, but it would make sense if they were.

Also just to be clear, I'm only using "celibate" to refer to being unmarried (with the exception of Space Marines), which is how the term was used historically and the Ecclesiarchy is appropriately medieval.

Isn't the celibacy a catholic thing? I remember that Protestants priest can marry and have family. In 40k theres arguments both for celibacy and for sexual freedom for the religious class.

But at the end of the day the Ecclesiarchy just as everything else on the Imperium is decentralized. Probably in many sectors they hace celibacy but in others don't.

The Ciaphas Cain Novels has a rather high ranking sororitas who drinks, gambles and has a friend with benefits. As far as I can tell there really isn't anything that prevents any humans from having kids other that Marines who arguably arn't really human anymore. This kinda makes sense when you consider that in 40k, Humanities best resource is sheer numbers.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
The Ciaphas Cain Novels has a rather high ranking sororitas who drinks, gambles and has a friend with benefits.

The presentation of the character pretty much hints that this Sister is basically to the Sisterhood what Cain himself is to Commissars. They are both rogues. They aren't supposed to drink, gamble and have sex, but they are people and people cheat. Even in actual monasteries, homosexual relationship existed and you can bet your ass some Space Marines haven't been brainwashed properly enough not to play with their little soldier or worse, fall in love. To answer the question, I would suspect all monastic orders in the Imperium, just like ours, demand celibacy if not downright chastity. As for priests, vicars, cardinals, missionnaries, bishops, it's probably uncommon for them to have kids and spouse and they are probably encouraged heavily to take vows of celibacy and or chastity to show their faith and dedication to the Emperor. I don't think there is a rule against it. Some sect or school of thought might be in favor while others would encourage the opposite. The question is certinaly debatable within the halls of the Ecclesiarchy as regionalism exist too. Of course, you will always have a certain number of illegitimate children and spouses.

Earth has priests that marry. And as for comment about ig not marrying that has also been shown as false in 40k novels

tneva82 wrote:
Earth has priests that marry. And as for comment about ig not marrying that has also been shown as false in 40k novels

Agreed.

Celibacy is a trope in a number of real-world religions, but is definitely outnumbered by the alternative.

No reason why you can't have sects who enforce it, and I expect there are many of them based on the sheer scale of the Imperium and the cultural situation it finds itself in. Cleverly, there's no overarching fluff statement though just as well otherwise I expect people would get their panties in a twist about it

epronovost wrote:
The presentation of the character pretty much hints that this Sister is basically to the Sisterhood what Cain himself is to Commissars. They are both rogues. They aren't supposed to drink, gamble and have sex, but they are people and people cheat.

Iirc Cain reflects that he is certain the Sisters take a view of celebacy, only for the Amberly footnote to point out they don't.

It's been a while since I read that book though.

I also recall one of the battle sisters novels makes mention that they're aware of (and disdainful of) the fetishistic interest some people have of them.

Also, I think the head of the ecclesiarchy enjoys nightly guests in the beast arises series, though that has more to do with the sheer amount of power he wields, and notably predates the sisters of battle and their 'kill wayward ecclesiarchs' mandate.

Frankly I wouldn't expect celebacy as a rule, as the human body is pure and perfect and worth celebrating, but discretion is probably encouraged, and excession actively quashed.

 Galas wrote:
Isn't the celibacy a catholic thing? I remember that Protestants priest can marry and have family. In 40k theres arguments both for celibacy and for sexual freedom for the religious class.

But at the end of the day the Ecclesiarchy just as everything else on the Imperium is decentralized. Probably in many sectors they hace celibacy but in others don't.

Technically Celibacy isn't even a total rule with Catholicism and it's various orders. There were a lot of orders which did not mandate it. It just so happens the most famous orders were ones which practiced celibacy.

Sort of like how Knightly orders in Europe were not all exclusively male. Most were, but there were exceptions.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

epronovost wrote:
The presentation of the character pretty much hints that this Sister is basically to the Sisterhood what Cain himself is to Commissars. They are both rogues. They aren't supposed to drink, gamble and have sex, but they are people and people cheat.

Iirc Cain reflects that he is certain the Sisters take a view of celebacy, only for the Amberly footnote to point out they don't.

Correct - Amberely notes that eveyone assumes that they are celebate but there is no techincal rule but she speculates that few if any have the time or inclination to indulge in sex. Cain is about as worldly a man as you will find in the Imperium and even he is extremely suprised by the possibility. He is not a fan of the Sororitas as he considers them somewhat reckless but in the Cain novels he notes that he is pretty much unique in this view as they are highly venerated by everyone - even the battle hardened veterans he works with.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Earth has priests that marry. And as for comment about ig not marrying that has also been shown as false in 40k novels

Agreed.

Celibacy is a trope in a number of real-world religions, but is definitely outnumbered by the alternative.

When it comes to monasticism, the purpose is abstention from nearly everything.

In a way, the purpose of the militant adepta sororitas is not a military. The learning of combat is a devotion, the way many nuns and monks have a trade or vocation - woodworking or icon making as forms of prayer, embroidery or music as forms of prayer. It's something to concentrate on, the beneficiaries of their training is the sister themselves. Military discipline is used as religious discipline, of giving up the self. It is somewhat coincidental, and financially beneficial for their continued operation, that the product of their devotions (skill at arms) has uses to other people, i.e. the cardinals of the adeptus ministorum.

In Innocence proves nothing by Sandy Mitchel (also author of the Cain books) a young death cult assasin has a moment where she thinks about sex. My memory is a bit hazy but IIRC she says that she doesn't know much about it but that it was allowed as long as you where wed. It's the only reference I can think of. Even the fantasy flight DH books are surprisingly unmentioning of the subject.

I recall a short story from let the galaxy burn (an anthology of 38 40k short stories) where a local ecclisiarchy priest is caught with his pants down by a girl who's attracted by him. In the scene he doesn't in any way hint towards celebasy or of the situation being inappropriate, though he has no intrest in the girl.

I'm thinking that the only adeptus in the Imperium that'd be forced to celebasy is the mechanicus (who disdain all fleshly needs), the Astartes, the assasinorum, the Custodes and probably most importantly the psykers (including astropaths, navigators and battle psykers). Psykers are the single most regulated minority in the Imperium for pretty obvious reasons and I'd be very surprised if they where allowed to reproduce unscrutiniesed. Particularily the navigators.

Besides, if The Sisters got laid, maybe they'd chill the hell out for 30 seconds or something.

M.

 Nerak wrote:
In Innocence proves nothing by Sandy Mitchel (also author of the Cain books) a young death cult assasin has a moment where she thinks about sex. My memory is a bit hazy but IIRC she says that she doesn't know much about it but that it was allowed as long as you where wed. It's the only reference I can think of. Even the fantasy flight DH books are surprisingly unmentioning of the subject.

I recall a short story from let the galaxy burn (an anthology of 38 40k short stories) where a local ecclisiarchy priest is caught with his pants down by a girl who's attracted by him. In the scene he doesn't in any way hint towards celebasy or of the situation being inappropriate, though he has no intrest in the girl.

I'm thinking that the only adeptus in the Imperium that'd be forced to celebasy is the mechanicus (who disdain all fleshly needs), the Astartes, the assasinorum, the Custodes and probably most importantly the psykers (including astropaths, navigators and battle psykers). Psykers are the single most regulated minority in the Imperium for pretty obvious reasons and I'd be very surprised if they where allowed to reproduce unscrutiniesed. Particularily the navigators.

Navigators definitely aren't celibate. That's how they make more navigators which is important because they need to replace navigators before they get too old whereas other psykers can just serve until they die.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

epronovost wrote:
The presentation of the character pretty much hints that this Sister is basically to the Sisterhood what Cain himself is to Commissars. They are both rogues. They aren't supposed to drink, gamble and have sex, but they are people and people cheat.

Iirc Cain reflects that he is certain the Sisters take a view of celebacy, only for the Amberly footnote to point out they don't.

Correct - Amberely notes that eveyone assumes that they are celebate but there is no techincal rule but she speculates that few if any have the time or inclination to indulge in sex. Cain is about as worldly a man as you will find in the Imperium and even he is extremely suprised by the possibility. He is not a fan of the Sororitas as he considers them somewhat reckless but in the Cain novels he notes that he is pretty much unique in this view as they are highly venerated by everyone - even the battle hardened veterans he works with.

Well one there meant to be terrifying. Sisters of battle are not exactly hit on material. Thr chances are you get a bolt shell or set on fire.

Two. Opertunity. There not exactly given R and R, they monastic. Not exactly ideal for getting some action.

Three. Lastly you'd rarely find one sister alone. So again opertunity. They work in squads, formations. Etc. If not that there part of other task forces or such.

Thr impirum does not make getting laid easy. The fact it's barely even considered makes perfect sense.

The Ecclesiarchy is a very decentralised organisation, as all Imperial organisations are by their nature.

Some cults worship the Emperor in completely different ways, and their stories about him vary massively.

There's no reason to believe that certain sects of the Imperial Cult would be celibate, and others wouldn't be.

Having said that, I would think that high ranking officials in the Ecclesiarchy would be encouraged to have children to continue their illustrious bloodline.

As with everything regarding the Imperial Cult, it all depends on the world they are from.

Afaik so long as you Worship The Manperor of Mankind, don't worship anything else, and don't do anything Heretical, pretty much anything goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

epronovost wrote:
The presentation of the character pretty much hints that this Sister is basically to the Sisterhood what Cain himself is to Commissars. They are both rogues. They aren't supposed to drink, gamble and have sex, but they are people and people cheat.

Iirc Cain reflects that he is certain the Sisters take a view of celebacy, only for the Amberly footnote to point out they don't.

Correct - Amberely notes that eveyone assumes that they are celebate but there is no techincal rule but she speculates that few if any have the time or inclination to indulge in sex. Cain is about as worldly a man as you will find in the Imperium and even he is extremely suprised by the possibility. He is not a fan of the Sororitas as he considers them somewhat reckless but in the Cain novels he notes that he is pretty much unique in this view as they are highly venerated by everyone - even the battle hardened veterans he works with.

Well one there meant to be terrifying. Sisters of battle are not exactly hit on material. Thr chances are you get a bolt shell or set on fire.

Two. Opertunity. There not exactly given R and R, they monastic. Not exactly ideal for getting some action.

Three. Lastly you'd rarely find one sister alone. So again opertunity. They work in squads, formations. Etc. If not that there part of other task forces or such.

Thr impirum does not make getting laid easy. The fact it's barely even considered makes perfect sense.

Let's not forget the Cannoness in one of the Cain books (great Poker face apparently ) who Cain accidental finds having an affair with an Administratum clerk.

 Galas wrote:
Isn't the celibacy a catholic thing? I remember that Protestants priest can marry and have family.

Orthodox too, I think. Roman Catholic priests used to be able to have wives, too (celibacy - not marrying; chastity - not ing). The introduction of celibacy was a way of centralising papal control.

The Death Cult Assassin from Innocence Proves Nothing is chaste, but that's partly because she's a Redemptionist and they're crazy, and partly because she's quite young.

The Mechanicus aren't necessarily chaste, either - most of them will be because they aren't concerned with pleasures of the flesh, but in Duty Calls, Amberley wonders exactly how Cain found out that the (female) tech-priest's
mechadendrite attached at the base of her spine ...

Space Marines ... I don't recall a canon source that discusses it either way, but in Wolfblade, Ragnar has some feelings toward the female Navigator of House Belisarius. Because even the Space Wolves are space monks (albeit hairy, shouty ones with a taste for beer), it doesn't go anywhere.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
As with everything regarding the Imperial Cult, it all depends on the world they are from.

Afaik so long as you Worship The Manperor of Mankind, don't worship anything else, and don't do anything Heretical, pretty much anything goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

epronovost wrote:
The presentation of the character pretty much hints that this Sister is basically to the Sisterhood what Cain himself is to Commissars. They are both rogues. They aren't supposed to drink, gamble and have sex, but they are people and people cheat.

Iirc Cain reflects that he is certain the Sisters take a view of celebacy, only for the Amberly footnote to point out they don't.

Correct - Amberely notes that eveyone assumes that they are celebate but there is no techincal rule but she speculates that few if any have the time or inclination to indulge in sex. Cain is about as worldly a man as you will find in the Imperium and even he is extremely suprised by the possibility. He is not a fan of the Sororitas as he considers them somewhat reckless but in the Cain novels he notes that he is pretty much unique in this view as they are highly venerated by everyone - even the battle hardened veterans he works with.

Well one there meant to be terrifying. Sisters of battle are not exactly hit on material. Thr chances are you get a bolt shell or set on fire.

Two. Opertunity. There not exactly given R and R, they monastic. Not exactly ideal for getting some action.

Three. Lastly you'd rarely find one sister alone. So again opertunity. They work in squads, formations. Etc. If not that there part of other task forces or such.

Thr impirum does not make getting laid easy. The fact it's barely even considered makes perfect sense.

Let's not forget the Cannoness in one of the Cain books (great Poker face apparently ) who Cain accidental finds having an affair with an Administratum clerk.

Thats the oone we are talking about She is a Celestian - the equivalent of a Veteran Space Marine sent out to a backwater planet to select and train novices in a Schola.

The Mechanicus aren't necessarily chaste, either - most of them will be because they aren't concerned with pleasures of the flesh, but in Duty Calls, Amberley wonders exactly how Cain found out that the (female) tech-priest's
mechadendrite attached at the base of her spine ...

Amberley knows very well - she can be a little frosty about her lovers previous partners.

Regarding the Mechanicus, the lower ranked members at least still reproduce naturally. In Titanicus some of the characters are parents and children. It just naturally follows that if you eventually replace enough of your body you'll cease to be able, and no longer have the inclination, to have sex.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
No evidence in the fluff as far as I know. There's a holdover assumption from real life that priests and nuns are celibate, but it doesn't appear to carry through.

Doesn't mean your order can't be if you want, but there's no all-pervading decree that they are or aren't.

The only evidence I have seen is in regard to the Redemptionists. There was an issue of Necromunda magazine released years ago that had "suggested for mature readers" on the cover, so this wasn't going to pull any punches. I'll have to dig it up but I remember definitely one of the things that draws the ire of the Redemption is "Fornication and thinking about fornication".

Ruin wrote:


The only evidence I have seen is in regard to the Redemptionists. There was an issue of Necromunda magazine released years ago that had "suggested for mature readers" on the cover, so this wasn't going to pull any punches. I'll have to dig it up but I remember definitely one of the things that draws the ire of the Redemption is "Fornication and thinking about fornication".

If I recall correctly fornication is sex outside of marriage so they may still be able to marry and have a family.

Codex SOB from Wh40k 2nd edition is clear on one thing: the schola progenium used to be place where lots of debauchery happened (for the benefit of the priest in charge much more than the students/foster children), now they are extremely puritanical places.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
As with everything regarding the Imperial Cult, it all depends on the world they are from.

Afaik so long as you Worship The Manperor of Mankind, don't worship anything else, and don't do anything Heretical, pretty much anything goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

epronovost wrote:
The presentation of the character pretty much hints that this Sister is basically to the Sisterhood what Cain himself is to Commissars. They are both rogues. They aren't supposed to drink, gamble and have sex, but they are people and people cheat.

Iirc Cain reflects that he is certain the Sisters take a view of celebacy, only for the Amberly footnote to point out they don't.

Correct - Amberely notes that eveyone assumes that they are celebate but there is no techincal rule but she speculates that few if any have the time or inclination to indulge in sex. Cain is about as worldly a man as you will find in the Imperium and even he is extremely suprised by the possibility. He is not a fan of the Sororitas as he considers them somewhat reckless but in the Cain novels he notes that he is pretty much unique in this view as they are highly venerated by everyone - even the battle hardened veterans he works with.

Well one there meant to be terrifying. Sisters of battle are not exactly hit on material. Thr chances are you get a bolt shell or set on fire.

Two. Opertunity. There not exactly given R and R, they monastic. Not exactly ideal for getting some action.

Three. Lastly you'd rarely find one sister alone. So again opertunity. They work in squads, formations. Etc. If not that there part of other task forces or such.

Thr impirum does not make getting laid easy. The fact it's barely even considered makes perfect sense.

Let's not forget the Cannoness in one of the Cain books (great Poker face apparently ) who Cain accidental finds having an affair with an Administratum clerk.

Thats the oone we are talking about She is a Celestian - the equivalent of a Veteran Space Marine sent out to a backwater planet to select and train novices in a Schola.

The Mechanicus aren't necessarily chaste, either - most of them will be because they aren't concerned with pleasures of the flesh, but in Duty Calls, Amberley wonders exactly how Cain found out that the (female) tech-priest's
mechadendrite attached at the base of her spine ...

Amberley knows very well - she can be a little frosty about her lovers previous partners.

Well Cain... the man kinda is willing to go places others may not.

Brave Commissar and all leading the charge from the Front..... of the... Bedroom door....

*Blam*

HERESEY!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Codex SOB from Wh40k 2nd edition is clear on one thing: the schola progenium used to be place where lots of debauchery happened (for the benefit of the priest in charge much more than the students/foster children), now they are extremely puritanical places.

Sadly, these aren't mutually exclusive. Schola Progenium are described as ultra-violent and competitive environment where young orphans are trained for a life of war, violence and perfect obediance. The drill abbots have the reputation to be harsh and brutal. In such a climate, sexual abuse and exploitation is bound to be rampant much like it was in religious boarding schools for orphans and Native Americans in the real world, a very dark chapter in my country history.

epronovost wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Codex SOB from Wh40k 2nd edition is clear on one thing: the schola progenium used to be place where lots of debauchery happened (for the benefit of the priest in charge much more than the students/foster children), now they are extremely puritanical places.

Sadly, these aren't mutually exclusive. Schola Progenium are described as ultra-violent and competitive environment where young orphans are trained for a life of war, violence and perfect obediance. The drill abbots have the reputation to be harsh and brutal. In such a climate, sexual abuse and exploitation is bound to be rampant.

And I guess it's the students who are going to be punished for getting caught, if anyone is punished at all. Still, celibacy or not nuns with guns don't usually have time to engage in anything except the approved military drills, prayers and so on (kind of like marines with their 15 minutes free time every 24 hours).

A priest, on the other hand, would in my opinion often be required to marry because of the whole "multiply and take over the galaxy" schtick of the Emperor Cult. On a world that only exports soldiers it would probably be especially important, but any hive world where the factories need more workers is also a prime candidate for such an interpretation. You're not excused from breeding just because you have to give sermons and attend to other church functions.