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Dark Angels are back!

Please focus discussion here on how we can leverage our new codex. This is not a news thread; post your reactions and hot takes over here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/743764.page

I'll keep this OP updated with everything we know from the new codex, as well as competitive reviews and other commentary from the thread. First Community article here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/04/chapter-focus-dark-angels/

Here's all the GW reveals:And here's codex reviews:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/12/10/dark-angels-codex-review-part-1-stratagems-warlord-traits-relics-and-psychic-powers/

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/12/13/dark-angels-codex-review-part-2-dark-angels-units/

Some points costs changes from Index to Codex:
Spoiler:
Dark Talon down 40 points (but Hurricane bolters up a bit so net -28 or -15%)

Ezekiel down 10 points.
Asmodai down 15 points or 10% (from good to incredible)
Other named characters unchanged.

Ravenwing Bikes and Landspeeders now cost the same as their Space Marine counterparts so they no longer pay for Jink. Bikes are down 22% from Index, Land Speeders down 18%.

Ravenwing Ancient and Apothecary both down 5 points.

Ravenwing Black Knights down 4 points per model, or 8%.

All the Primaris and other Space Marine points cost changes from their codex and Chapter Approved 2017 are the same in the Dark Angels Codex, of course.

Rules changes:
Spoiler:
Jink is now 4++ (big improvement over 5++)

Azreal's 4++ aura now affects only Infantry and Bikers.

Sammeal on Sableclaw now protected by Character keyword.

Black Knights and all Deathwing units gained Combat Squad ability.

Black Knights gain Inner Circle (Fearless).

Dark Angels Chapter Ancient has slightly better banner than basic Space Marines; the last gasp attacks are 2+ WS/BS.


Community Articles:
Spoiler:
Aeri wrote:
I began a unit rating for myself, but might aswell post it to open the discussion.
I didn't rate every unit, because I just dont have all of them and therefore dont care.

HQ:

Azrael: A+ [No explanation needed I guess. Great to keep Devs/Hellblasters alive]
Asmodai: A- [Great DWK Force Multiplier, but no Teleport Strike. Relies on riding a Landraider with a unit of DWK. Also works great with Company Veterans geared for melee.]
Sammael: A+ [Swift and deadly. Great Support for Black Knights and other Ravenwing units aswell. Can assault flyers with his S8 sword making him super versatile.]
Belial: B [Great Deathwing Multiplier and Combat beast, but suffers from the same problem every melee buff character has - he might not make the charge to support his unit.]
Interrogator Chaplain: C+ [Very expensive compared to a chaplain. The extra -1 to morale is rarely worth it. Pick a chaplain or Asmodai instead.]
Chaplain: B- [Good Melee Buff. When used in Terminator Armour to deep strike with terminators you have a high chance of him not making the charge and therefore not beeing able to buff the charging units. Works great in a transport though.]
Librarians C [Don't like our Powers, so librarians mostly don't see the board anymore.]

Troops:

Scouts: A- [Cheap and very versatile troop choice. Great to take objectives early on and harass/charge shooty units.]
Tactical Squad: B [The same solid troop choice as ever. Sturdy, can take many different weapons and are very flexible. Kind of expensive though, since our best units are super pricey. Need a Razorback or Rhino for best effectiveness or are doomed as a backline place and forget unit.]

Elite:

Deathwing Knights: A- [Pure deadlyness. Even better with Asmodai and a Deahwing Ancient. May get stuck if your Landraider blows early though. Darkshroud helps a lot to prevent this.]
Deathwing Terminators: C [Price and outshined in melee by DWK. For shooting there are better choices. Great to harass a backfield unit though and soak up enemy fire. If left alone they can hurt quite badly, so the enemy HAS to deal with them.]
Dreadnoughts: B+ [As Rifledreads a very solid choice, specially with our new reroll 1s. No degrading aswell. I prefer 2 with Twin Las/Twin Autocannon in my force.]
Venerable Dreadnoughts: A [Very potent backfield heavy weapon plattforms. BS2+ and reroll 1s almost guarantees hits. And they come with a 6+ FNP for extra toughness. worth the 20P upgrade!]

Fast Attack:
Black Knights: A [Some of our best units. Deadly. Fast. Reliable. With Weapons of the Dark Age also super deadly. 6 can kill a Monolith in 1 shooting phase. They are also small enough to evade enemy fire if placed carefully. In melee they are "ok". Not as great as they used to be, but can still pack a punch with sammy and/or an ancient. Very expensive though.]
Ravenwing Bikes C- [Very expensive for what they bring to the field. Mediocre in melee, mediocre in shooting. I see little reason to field these guys.]
Darkshroud A [Great defensive tool. Let it protect the backfield, your transports or your bikes. It makes your units a lot tougher for very little points. Don't bother with weapon upgrades, it's not there to shoot stuff.]
Land Speeders B- [Very expensive, but versatile. Best used stationary because of their heavy weapons, and this is exactly where they are outshined by Dreadnoughts.]

Heavy Support:
Devastators B+ [Superb Heavy hitters for your backline. With rerolls to 1s and our Plasma Stratagem they can really hurt stuff for reasonable points. Add Azrael or other buff units to make them even better. Might die quite easily though, since the unit is just 5 Marines.]
Predators A- [Tough and can hurt a lot. Best used with Predator Auto Cannon and Las Cannon sponsons. Other than Ven Dreads they lose BS when taking damage, making them less effective the longer the battle lasts.]
Landspeeder Vengeance D [Nopes. Just don't]
Land Raider Redeemer A- [Love this thing with DWK in it. The flamers are also great to kill flyers and other hard to hit stuff. Creates a nice threat bubble, but is kinda slow. Also can leave combat due to our new stratagem, eliminating one of the greatest weaknesses of landraiders. But who would want to charge this thing anyways?]
Land Raider Crusader B+ [Greater transport capacity, but less dmg output. IMHO the Darkshroud is better to take the anti horde role.]

Flyers:
Nephilim Jetfighter: B+ [Great damage output and survivability. Can get kinda expensive though. Still a solid choice.]
Dark Talon: A- [One of our best anti horde tools. Cheap, tough and reliable. BF2+ hurricane bolters can get stuff done. The rift canon is a great addition to take on heavier targets. The stasis bomb is a 1 time gimmick - a good one.]



Spoiler:
Breng77 wrote:

So here are my ratings for what I have played

HQ
Sammael in sable claw - A+ Great in shooting, super mobile hands out some good buffs. Great in the assault, especially on the charge. If you are not running a gunline he is out best HQ Also very durable between T6 7 wounds and character protections. Combos well with scouts.
Talonmaster - B+ provides good buffs, if he takes the Heavenfall blade relic he is good in combat, good in shooting but really needs Sammi (or some other Master) for re-rolls due to hitting on a 4+ most of the time. If you are only taking 1 landspeeder HQ take sammi he is worth the extra points.
Master - B good all around, usually used with a Jump pack for the re-rolls 1 to hit buff. Consider if bringing inceptors.
Lieutenant - B good all around, usually used with a Jump pack for the re-rolls 1 buff. Consider if bringing inceptors, Master is more important though. A good cheap inclusion in an Azzy gunline though.
Azreal - A+ he is not an auto include, but will make most gunline builds. If you are bringing Helblasters he is going to come along.

Troops
Scouts - A - Best troop in the book and it isn't close. The provide alpha strike protection, can claim midfield objectives, and with the CA character rules change are a good pick for denying shooting targeting your Landspeeder borne HQ choices
Tacticals - C- - I really don't see why you would take them over scouts, but they are not terrible. I guess plasma + combi-plasma in a Razorback is an ok load out. I don't think any other build is worth bothering.
Intercessors - B - They are ok, they don't benefit as much from out tactics as other units or in other factions. They are not a bad pick, but with a lot of our other stuff being pricey it can be hard to fit in expensive troops as well.

Elites
DW terminators - C- So so, the DWA stratagem is too many CP, and you won't have many if you run a big terminator squad to take advantage of it. Terminators are just not that great this edition, and they don't really fill a role in most DA builds.

Fast Attack
RW black knights - C+ Not a big fan here, they are ok, but I think they are too expensive for their durability and we have other good plasma units. They are an obvious target for most players. I do think if you use them it is go big or go home. 3 man squads are bad when compared to plasma bikers.
RW bikes - B+ - good all around unit, brings a lot of shooting on a fast platform, bolters + plasma makes them dangerous to many different types of units.
Scout bikes - B+ - among the best units for anti-infantry, super fast, tons of shooting, can do mortal wounds when they fall back out of combat. Most people underestimate them, but I think that won't last. If they were RW they would be an A+ unit. Honestly if you want to take them doing it by allying in marines is the way to go. I've run them both as DA and White Scars and doing white scars lets you double up on Advance + shoot + charge stratagems to jump on your opponent.
Inceptors - A+ - with plasma they are the best target we have for WOTDA, expect them to die, but they will kill something on the drop (sometimes more than 1 thing.)

Heavy Support
Helblasters - A - effective with Azreal, but I honestly think they work better in other chapters to some extent, they want to be at half range to get the most of their shooting, and are not all that fast. They are great, but not my favorite in the codex.



 axisofentropy wrote:

HQ: Azreal will be Warlord of nearly every Dark Angel army. Sammeal, Belial, Asmodai, Talonmaster, and a Jump Pack Master fill out the remaining HQ slots to support the rest of your army.

Troops: Scouts. Some with heavy weapons for mortal wound stratagems.

Elites: For now, the Company Champion's Blade of Caliban costs 0. Abuse this until it changes but don't spend money on it. Aggressors with boltstorms pair well with Azreal. Deathwing Ancient belongs in every Deathwing army.

Fast Attack: This is the good stuff. Plasma Inceptors and Black Knights can anchor an alpha-strike army. Darkshroud provides powerful defense if you need to play for all 6 turns.

Heavy Support: Plasma Cannon Devastators love Grim Resolve. Hellblasters pair well with Azreal.

Flyer: Dark Talon is great. Stormraven recently got more expensive but Fire Raptors got cheaper. Both require support to succeed.

Dedicated Transport: These don't really help Dark Angels.


The old Index tactics thread is here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727176.page

This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2018/03/23 06:12:55


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Regular Dakkanaut




fluffy and pretty solid. Some Black Knights with more damage on Plasma? delicious.
   
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Dark Angels Hellblasters are going to be terrifying, Re-rolls of 1 AND 3 damage on overcharge? Christ.
   
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 raverrn wrote:
Dark Angels Hellblasters are going to be terrifying, Re-rolls of 1 AND 3 damage on overcharge? Christ.
yeah I've just ordered some more.

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Yeah that plasma strat, while fluffy, is horrendously overpowered for 1 CP. should have been 2CP or overhead on a 2 or less.

Plasma was already kinda too strong.

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Vigo. Spain.

I'm sad Grim Resolve is useless for Ravenwing and nearly useless for Deathwing.

But ey. With all this powerfull stratagems we are gonna want to have max-sized squads, of hellblasters for example. So the native "Commisar" bonus is actually pretty usefull.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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These Talonmaster are quite a deal! Re-roll 1s to wound AND remove cover?

I won't even miss my Tau

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/04 19:08:57


40k Dark Angels and future 30k Thousand Sons

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 
   
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 Galas wrote:
I'm sad Grim Resolve is useless for Ravenwing and nearly useless for Deathwing.

But ey. With all this powerfull stratagems we are gonna want to have max-sized squads, of hellblasters for example. So the native "Commisar" bonus is actually pretty usefull.


Yeah i'm disappointed with what we've seen so far. From a CT that doesn't do anything for 2/3rds of the army, and possibly nerfs DW, to a terrible relic, and warlord trait, to multiple fluffy strategems and only a couple decent ones.

Hopefully there's a full Deathwing faction focus that actually has some stuff to help DW out.

   
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St. Louis, MO

I'm going to hazard a guess and say the the inner circle morale immunity may be going away.

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Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
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 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I'm going to hazard a guess and say the the inner circle morale immunity may be going away.


Ya. Either that or GW completely forgot that DW Termies are immune to morale currently. Which I could definitely see happen.

2800 
   
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On the one hand, Grim Resolve encourages us to stay static. On the other hand, it frees up our Company Masters to move about the battlefield and contribute up front instead of sitting back with the lascannons. I'm happy with that.

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Vigo. Spain.

Grim Resolve is a pure Greenwing buff. It enfatizes for them to be the anvil, with Ravenwing and Deathwing acting like the hammer.

And the morale buff helps. With those powerfull stratagems we will want big units, like 10 hellblasters, etc...

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
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A Protoss colony world

What kind of loadout would be best on a unit of Tartaros terminators? Lightning Claws for everyone? Combibolters and fists? Some combination of the two? Also on the unit sarge, is it worth taking the plasma blaster or volkite charger? I'm thinking the plasma one could be useful with the super plasma stratagem, but then again it is one weapon and the stratagem is better on a unit with lots of plasma, such as Hellblasters or the suddenly viable Plasma Cannon Devastators.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 1/27/18, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~10400 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~1100 | Space Wolves: ~1400
Inquisition: ~200 | Officio Assassinorum: ~500 | Talons of the Emperor: ~500
Tau Empire: ~5700 | Chaos Space Marines (various legions): ~8400 | Death Guard: ~2500 | Chaos Daemons (all types): ~2300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Stormsurge blog | Imperial Knights: Renegade blog | Total models painted in 2017: 65 | Total models painted in 2018: 40 | Current main painting project: Assassins
 Mr_Rose wrote:
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Yeah at first glance Plasma cannon devastators are the big winners of what we've seen so far.

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Plasma spotted in Forgeworld index.
[Thumb - Screenshot_20171204-221634~2.png]

   
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 ZergSmasher wrote:
What kind of loadout would be best on a unit of Tartaros terminators? Lightning Claws for everyone? Combibolters and fists? Some combination of the two? Also on the unit sarge, is it worth taking the plasma blaster or volkite charger? I'm thinking the plasma one could be useful with the super plasma stratagem, but then again it is one weapon and the stratagem is better on a unit with lots of plasma, such as Hellblasters or the suddenly viable Plasma Cannon Devastators.


I can't see taking a squad of LC tartaros terms when you can take Knights instead. yeah they are more expensive but they are just hands down better in every way with a single inch less movement and a strategem that makes them dead hard to kill. I could maybe see running 4 combi-plasmas with a plasma blaster and power fists to take advantage of the strategem but even then, that clocks in around 267 points. I'd rather just have regular tactical terminators with 4 shot storm bolters and an assault cannon for 212 points or a cyclone for 242 points.

   
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A Protoss colony world

bobafett012 wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
What kind of loadout would be best on a unit of Tartaros terminators? Lightning Claws for everyone? Combibolters and fists? Some combination of the two? Also on the unit sarge, is it worth taking the plasma blaster or volkite charger? I'm thinking the plasma one could be useful with the super plasma stratagem, but then again it is one weapon and the stratagem is better on a unit with lots of plasma, such as Hellblasters or the suddenly viable Plasma Cannon Devastators.


I can't see taking a squad of LC tartaros terms when you can take Knights instead. yeah they are more expensive but they are just hands down better in every way with a single inch less movement and a strategem that makes them dead hard to kill. I could maybe see running 4 combi-plasmas with a plasma blaster and power fists to take advantage of the strategem but even then, that clocks in around 267 points. I'd rather just have regular tactical terminators with 4 shot storm bolters and an assault cannon for 212 points or a cyclone for 242 points.


I don't think they can take any combi-plasmas at all. I think the closest equivalent to a standard tactical terminator squad would be 4 power fists/chainfists and a power sword on the sarge, and 4 combibolters and a reaper autocannon (closest equivalent of the assault cannon) on one guy. I think that clocks in at 210 points or so. They aren't much different from regular termies except for the wargear options. Maybe grenade harnesses on at least a couple of guys could increase their firepower enough to be worth taking.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 1/27/18, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~10400 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~1100 | Space Wolves: ~1400
Inquisition: ~200 | Officio Assassinorum: ~500 | Talons of the Emperor: ~500
Tau Empire: ~5700 | Chaos Space Marines (various legions): ~8400 | Death Guard: ~2500 | Chaos Daemons (all types): ~2300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Stormsurge blog | Imperial Knights: Renegade blog | Total models painted in 2017: 65 | Total models painted in 2018: 40 | Current main painting project: Assassins
 Mr_Rose wrote:
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Oh i thought combi-bolters were combi-weapons. Now they have even less appeal to me. I don't think their weapon options are very good at all. They only have reapers and heavy flamers for heavy weapon options. Heavy flamers are terrible and assault cannons are better than reapers. Then of course regular terms have even more heavy weapon options. Give me Assault cannons, cyclones, and my storm bolters!
   
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A Protoss colony world

I mainly asked because I happen to have some unbuilt Tartaros models, not because I think they are super competitive or anything. I just wanted to give them the most optimum loadout possible. I'm still not sold on Terminators in general this edition. Yes, they are better now than they have been in a very long time, but that's not saying that much.

For sake of argument, let's look at the two squads side by side (standard squad with 4x Storm Bolter, Assault Cannon, 4x Powerfist, Sword on Champ vs. Tartaros squad with 4x Combi-bolter, Reaper Autocannon, 4x Powerfist, Sword on Champ). They cost about the same, with the Tartaros guys being slightly cheaper due to the Reaper costing less than the assault cannon. The Tartaros guys have better movement speed, but probably not enough to make a difference, and the two guns have their pros and cons, although most will definitely favor the assault cannon. Storm Bolters and Combi-bolters are the exact same gun in 8th, so no difference there. The real difference between the squads is their other options. Both can have guys swap their weapons out for a pair of Lightning Claws, but as we've covered Deathwing Knights trump all other melee Terminators. Either squad can take chainfists, so no difference there. Either squad can take a Heavy Flamer, but the regular ones can take a Plasma Cannon or a Cyclone Launcher (expensive!) instead. Tartaros termies can take a grenade harness that doesn't replace other weapons (so can have a heavy plus the grenades), and their Sarge can take a better gun (for more points of course). I'm inclined to feel that the two units are actually pretty close in terms of effectiveness. To me, the Cyclone launcher is a trap, since it will almost always be firing at -1 BS as teleporting in counts as moving and I can't imagine standing still with them will necessarily be an option. It's too expensive to be only getting one Krak hit per turn. Yes, the other heavy weapons are also going to almost always be hitting on 4's as well, but they are cheaper and get more shots.

I think regular Termies have the edge when teleporting in, but Tartaros, due to the slightly faster movement, are better out of a Land Raider, plus the Reaper cannon has a longer range than the Assault cannon so if the Land Raider goes boom they won't be out of range.

I don't know enough about Cataphractii termies and their options to be able to compare them, but I think it's cool that we now have the option of fielding these different types of units. Plus we now get Contemptor Dreads!

My armies (re-counted and updated on 1/27/18, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~10400 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~1100 | Space Wolves: ~1400
Inquisition: ~200 | Officio Assassinorum: ~500 | Talons of the Emperor: ~500
Tau Empire: ~5700 | Chaos Space Marines (various legions): ~8400 | Death Guard: ~2500 | Chaos Daemons (all types): ~2300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Stormsurge blog | Imperial Knights: Renegade blog | Total models painted in 2017: 65 | Total models painted in 2018: 40 | Current main painting project: Assassins
 Mr_Rose wrote:
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I don't disagree that they are close. I like the look of the DW terms a lot more personally.

I run a almost pure DW army so most of my terms sit near Belial making them even better.

I too feel the cyclone is over priced, but I do like to run 1 because I generally have a unit of terms I can't DS in because of the DS rules, and so the cyclone fits that bill nicely as a dual shot back field missile launcher.

The rest of the term DS in with Belial all having assault cannons and storm bolters re-rolling hits. It's a pretty decent alpha strike usually.
   
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Why is everybody hating on the relic? Taken with Huntsman WT and using the plasma stratagem you can double tap characters to death from 18" away meaning no screen unit will protect them. Chapter masters, psykers and buff characters of all sorts will be in trouble (Changeling anybody?). It's not an autotake but if you build for it then it will do work.
   
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I have 10 hellblasters from Dark Imperium that will likely be built and painted soon to chill with Azzy. Assuming he keeps his 4++ bubble. I know they nerfed the one BA can cast to a 5++ so I wouldn't be surprised if that is changed as well.

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Im trying to think of a way to take full advantage of the plasma strat. Hellblasters are sort of an obvious choice, but they're so expensive! Theyre pretty fragile, too. Unfortunately, deredeo dreads are really the only other unit with a weapon potentially worthy of a command point per round, in my opinion. If they could pod in, it might be fun to back up a couple units of Terminators as they dropped. I guess they'd be decent as part of Azrael's parking lot? Meh. Not convinced that's an improvement over a dual twin lascannon mortis dread.

Edit: I somehow missed the previous posts about plasma. I like the devastators idea a lot with Azrael support. That's pretty nifty, and you get some extra meat shields to keep your plasma from dropping out too fast.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/05 17:03:00


 
   
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MilkmanAl wrote:
Im trying to think of a way to take full advantage of the plasma strat.
Probably devastators with 4 plasma cannons. To make this reliable I'd want two squads, each with a few extra bolter dudes for ablative Wounds.


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Definitely have the plasma cannons ready to go, but will likely pick up Hellblasters too.

I built my RW Lt last night so he is ready to roll when codex drops (well, after I paint him that is). Looking to see how else I can make my RW work.
   
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MilkmanAl wrote:
Im trying to think of a way to take full advantage of the plasma strat. Hellblasters are sort of an obvious choice, but they're so expensive! Theyre pretty fragile, too. Unfortunately, deredeo dreads are really the only other unit with a weapon potentially worthy of a command point per round, in my opinion. If they could pod in, it might be fun to back up a couple units of Terminators as they dropped. I guess they'd be decent as part of Azrael's parking lot? Meh. Not convinced that's an improvement over a dual twin lascannon mortis dread.

Edit: I somehow missed the previous posts about plasma. I like the devastators idea a lot with Azrael support. That's pretty nifty, and you get some extra meat shields to keep your plasma from dropping out too fast.



Are people not thinking Black Knights as a good source for this? They are a little pricey right now, but I expect the cost to drop slightly on these guys. Even still.. squad of 5 or 6 black knights is 12 plasma shots... then you have stacks from Samm and Lts. for reroll hits and wounds.

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 Grizzyzz wrote:
MilkmanAl wrote:
Im trying to think of a way to take full advantage of the plasma strat. Hellblasters are sort of an obvious choice, but they're so expensive! Theyre pretty fragile, too. Unfortunately, deredeo dreads are really the only other unit with a weapon potentially worthy of a command point per round, in my opinion. If they could pod in, it might be fun to back up a couple units of Terminators as they dropped. I guess they'd be decent as part of Azrael's parking lot? Meh. Not convinced that's an improvement over a dual twin lascannon mortis dread.

Edit: I somehow missed the previous posts about plasma. I like the devastators idea a lot with Azrael support. That's pretty nifty, and you get some extra meat shields to keep your plasma from dropping out too fast.



Are people not thinking Black Knights as a good source for this? They are a little pricey right now, but I expect the cost to drop slightly on these guys. Even still.. squad of 5 or 6 black knights is 12 plasma shots... then you have stacks from Samm and Lts. for reroll hits and wounds.


It's not just the strategem, but Grim resolve as well. That's what allows your re-rolls of 1's. The problem is, it's only when stationary. This is why everyone is saying that the CT is essentially worthless for DW and RW. Ravenwing units move every turn, and at least my DW units do as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/05 19:33:47


 
   
Made in us
Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine





Does the variable amount of shots for plasma devs not put anyone off from using them over hellblasters?

Dark Angels - 8000
Blood Angels - 4000
Astra Militarum - 2000
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 ILegion wrote:
Does the variable amount of shots for plasma devs not put anyone off from using them over hellblasters?
No. Plasma cannon's D3 shots is 21 points. The Heavy Plasma Incinerator is only 1 shot for 17 points (should be cheaper) tho it does have +1 strength and -1 AP.

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Adolescent Youth with Potential



Argentina

Sammael in corvex, with the warlord trait and the plasma stratagem.
He can deal 9 wounds to a character at 36''!!!!
He is the best sniper of the empire!!
   
 
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