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Need help figuring out how to spend last 40 points. Thanks.

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [26 PL, 404pts]
Shadowsword [26 PL, 404pts]


Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [26 PL, 404pts]
Shadowsword [26 PL, 404pts]


Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [68 PL, 1152pts]
Regiment
Catachan

Knight Commander Pask [13 PL, 225pts]
Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters, Heavy Stubber
Command Punisher

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]


Conscripts [4 PL, 120pts]
30x Conscript

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]


Astropath [1 PL, 30pts]

Sergeant Harker [3 PL, 50pts]


Basilisks [14 PL, 216pts]
Basilisk
Heavy Bolter
Basilisk
Heavy Bolter

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Heavy Weapon Team x3
Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Heavy Weapon Team x3
Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Heavy Weapon Team x3
Mortar

Manticore [8 PL, 143pts]
Heavy Bolter
Manticore [8 PL, 143pts]
Heavy Bolter

A couple questions for you (and I am being mostly serious):

- What do you need two stock Shadowswords for, is your meta just a living hell of FW Knights?
- Does playing with 4 CP not feel restricting as Guard?
- Is Pask the most effective use of 225 points? Sure 2+ shooting is good, but he his nullifying your "Catachan" doctrines...so kinda defeats the purpose. I just keep thinking that trading him out for a Company Commander to sit in your mortar blob frees up 235 points (working with the 40 you mentioned) to spend on stuff augmenting what you already have. Like maybe a Trojan and another piece of artillery? Because misses with the Shadowswords are gonna hurt. Especially when you roll three 1s...which you will.

 exliontamer wrote:
A couple questions for you (and I am being mostly serious):

- What do you need two stock Shadowswords for, is your meta just a living hell of FW Knights?
- Does playing with 4 CP not feel restricting as Guard?
- Is Pask the most effective use of 225 points? Sure 2+ shooting is good, but he his nullifying your "Catachan" doctrines...so kinda defeats the purpose. I just keep thinking that trading him out for a Company Commander to sit in your mortar blob frees up 235 points (working with the 40 you mentioned) to spend on stuff augmenting what you already have. Like maybe a Trojan and another piece of artillery? Because misses with the Shadowswords are gonna hurt. Especially when you roll three 1s...which you will.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I have catachan for my artillery and pask just for more anti horde I play against a lot of orks and tyranids. I have harker to help the shadowswords not miss and I use the two big tanks to take out big bugs, knights, and other ig superheavies.

 greenknight wrote:

 exliontamer wrote:
A couple questions for you (and I am being mostly serious):

- What do you need two stock Shadowswords for, is your meta just a living hell of FW Knights?
- Does playing with 4 CP not feel restricting as Guard?
- Is Pask the most effective use of 225 points? Sure 2+ shooting is good, but he his nullifying your "Catachan" doctrines...so kinda defeats the purpose. I just keep thinking that trading him out for a Company Commander to sit in your mortar blob frees up 235 points (working with the 40 you mentioned) to spend on stuff augmenting what you already have. Like maybe a Trojan and another piece of artillery? Because misses with the Shadowswords are gonna hurt. Especially when you roll three 1s...which you will.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I have catachan for my artillery and pask just for more anti horde I play against a lot of orks and tyranids. I have harker to help the shadowswords not miss and I use the two big tanks to take out big bugs, knights, and other ig superheavies.

Cool yeah, it makes sense then. But just to be 100% clear, Pask is nullifying your Catachan bonus because he MUST be Cadian. So you are currently getting no bonus. I would rethink Pask and look for a different anti-horde solution.

2 things:

I would drop Pask to add heavy bolter sponsons (68 points per pair per tank, so 272 to add all 4 sponsons to each tank) to the Shadowswords, giving you 60 heavy bolter shots and 8 lascannon shots at the cost of 52 regular shots from Pask's punisher.

The extra points for this can come from dropping the Astrotelepath (what's it for?) and the Basilisks, giving you a net gain of a couple hundred points.

Finagle the list a bit more (maybe drop 1 manticore or something) to run a 3rd Shadowsword, can be naked if necessary, and break your Battalion apart. The 3 Shadowswords gives you the same CP as a Battalion, but now you just need to add 1 HQ to get +1 CP more than you had by bringign a Spearhead.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


The extra points for this can come from dropping the Astrotelepath (what's it for?) and the Basilisks

Agreed on the Basilisks, for sure. But my guess is that the Astropath is playing the role of Commissar to the Conscripts. With the Mental Fortitude psychic power Astropaths are actually great to protect one big blob like that from heavy morale losses.

 exliontamer wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


The extra points for this can come from dropping the Astrotelepath (what's it for?) and the Basilisks

Agreed on the Basilisks, for sure. But my guess is that the Astropath is playing the role of Commissar to the Conscripts. With the Mental Fortitude psychic power Astropaths are actually great to protect one big blob like that from heavy morale losses.

Then what is the Primaris Psyker for?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


Then what is the Primaris Psyker for?

\

Probably buffing one of the Baneblades with -1 to hit and +1 save...my guess...haha but I'll let OP answer from here on out.

I really appreciate all the help still new to this edition took a break during 6th/7th. Will drop pask didn't know he had to be cadian. Also the sponsons on the shadowswords seem overkill just want the volcano cannons. Lastly I was using both pyskers to buff my big tanks and harker to give all my tanks his buff. will try and fill out the list a little better by switching one shadowsword to a supreme command detachment with some more psykers and giving one big tank the catachan buff too. lastly will add a squad of bullgryns as another screen or drop a heavy weapons team for 2-3 wyverns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think this looks better kept pask and gained a command point.

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [26 PL, 404pts]

Shadowsword [26 PL, 404pts]


Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [43 PL, 717pts]
Cadian

Knight Commander Pask [13 PL, 221pts]
Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
Command Punisher

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]
Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]

Shadowsword [26 PL, 404pts]
Twin heavy bolter

Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [54 PL, 877pts]
Catachan

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]
Chainsword, KUROV’S AQUILA, Laspistol

Conscripts [4 PL, 116pts]
29x Conscript

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]

Sergeant Harker [3 PL, 50pts]

Basilisks [14 PL, 216pts]
Basilisk
Heavy Bolter
Basilisk
Heavy Bolter

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Mortarx3
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Mortarx3
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Mortarx3

Manticore [8 PL, 143pts]
Heavy Bolter
Manticore [8 PL, 143pts]
Heavy Bolter

Ok. So with this setup the baneblades don't get e regimental trait because of the FAQ.

I run 3 baneblades competitvely. If you want competitve go with a super heavy detatchement . Take 2 shadowswords and a banehammer no sponsons. 2 shadowswords can seem overkill but it's really not. Your always going to find one of them possibly getting hurt or removed. Having a second is the best. If targets are an issue don't forget to shoot it at any multi wound unit. You Weill pretty much remove it. If not run it down your opponents throat with the crushem strat.

Banehammer is awsome. Decent transport and lowers drop count as well as a pretty decent gun that prevents a unit from advancing an halves it's movement.

Run them Cadian for 1s to reroll. Add in a commander with the cheese relic of Cadian and make your opponent (especially chaos ones) weep.

You can run a battalion

Run infantry squads not conscripts

Run as many mortars as you can... Minimum 4.
Add in

Bring some psykers for smite

Run a cullexus to shut down opponents powers.

If however you want to run 2 shadowswords. ( I have been recently doing this) take 2 supreme commands with a bunch of commanders and primaris psykers. Add in a battalion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 greenknight wrote:
I really appreciate all the help still new to this edition took a break during 6th/7th. Will drop pask didn't know he had to be cadian. Also the sponsons on the shadowswords seem overkill just want the volcano cannons. Lastly I was using both pyskers to buff my big tanks and harker to give all my tanks his buff. will try and fill out the list a little better by switching one shadowsword to a supreme command detachment with some more psykers and giving one big tank the catachan buff too. lastly will add a squad of bullgryns as another screen or drop a heavy weapons team for 2-3 wyverns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think this looks better kept pask and gained a command point.

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [26 PL, 404pts]

Shadowsword [26 PL, 404pts]


Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [43 PL, 717pts]
Cadian

Knight Commander Pask [13 PL, 221pts]
Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
Command Punisher

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]
Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]

Shadowsword [26 PL, 404pts]
Twin heavy bolter

Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [54 PL, 877pts]
Catachan

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]
Chainsword, KUROV’S AQUILA, Laspistol

Conscripts [4 PL, 116pts]
29x Conscript

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]

Sergeant Harker [3 PL, 50pts]

Basilisks [14 PL, 216pts]
Basilisk
Heavy Bolter
Basilisk
Heavy Bolter

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Mortarx3
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Mortarx3
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Mortarx3

Manticore [8 PL, 143pts]
Heavy Bolter
Manticore [8 PL, 143pts]
Heavy Bolter

Remove one manticore.

Add a second supreme command
Add a couple more commanders ... Make sure it's Cadian and add the relic of cadia to one guy.
Put the second Shadowsword here as well
Add another infantry unit.
Add 2 more Morter teams

Personally I would dump pask and add in a cullexus or 2 . Then add some more infantry. Do you play the new ITC missions ? If so add Morter teams to the infantry to deny reaper

ok taken some of the advice this looks pretty nasty just not sure I have enough of a screen against turn one tyranid assaults.

Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [32 PL, 678pts]
Cadian

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]
Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]
Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]

Shadowsword [26 PL, 540pts]
Twin heavy bolter
2 Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponsons
2 Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [32 PL, 630pts]
Cadian

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]
Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]
Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]
RELIC OF LOST CADIA

Shadowsword [26 PL, 540pts]
Twin heavy bolter
2 Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponsons
2 Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [48 PL, 691pts]
Catachan

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]

Sergeant Harker [3 PL, 50pts]

Basilisks [14 PL, 216pts]
Basilisk
Basilisk

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Heavy Weapon Team Mortar x3

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Heavy Weapon Team Mortar x3

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Heavy Weapon Team Mortar x3

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
Heavy Weapon Team Mortar x3

Manticore [8 PL, 143pts]

Take straken and 2 more infantry squads. If you have the points for flames put them on.

Add a mystic.

Add a Ogryn bodyguard

Run straken with 3 infantry units and a mystic up the middle. Use strat to combine the units. Use orders, mystic rules and straken rerolls to make this a pretty Killy unit. Don't forget catches are s4

Add a ogryn body guard and run them near the 3 psykers. Run them behind the infantry/ straken screen. Buff the infantry and when you get near the enemy use your Smites.
Bodyguard tanks wounds,from your psykers.


Oh btw,to do this... Remove the sponsons

 zedsdead wrote:
Take straken and 2 more infantry squads. If you have the points for flames put them on.

Add a mystic.

Add a Ogryn bodyguard

Run straken with 3 infantry units and a mystic up the middle. Use strat to combine the units. Use orders, mystic rules and straken rerolls to make this a pretty Killy unit. Don't forget catches are s4

Add a ogryn body guard and run them near the 3 psykers. Run them behind the infantry/ straken screen. Buff the infantry and when you get near the enemy use your Smites.
Bodyguard tanks wounds,from your psykers.


Oh btw,to do this... Remove the sponsons

cant take anymore infantry squads

Why remove the sponsons Zedsdead? They're very good on Shadowswords.

 greenknight wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:
Take straken and 2 more infantry squads. If you have the points for flames put them on.

Add a mystic.

Add a Ogryn bodyguard

Run straken with 3 infantry units and a mystic up the middle. Use strat to combine the units. Use orders, mystic rules and straken rerolls to make this a pretty Killy unit. Don't forget catches are s4

Add a ogryn body guard and run them near the 3 psykers. Run them behind the infantry/ straken screen. Buff the infantry and when you get near the enemy use your Smites.
Bodyguard tanks wounds,from your psykers.


Oh btw,to do this... Remove the sponsons

cant take anymore infantry squads

Yea.. Go battalion and remove a heavy weapons team. Add them back into 3 of the infantry squads. 2 are going to stay back anyway as a,screen

Unit may often annoy me half to death, but he is the word on running multiple guard super heavies in these size point games.
Would strongly recommend heeding his? Her? Their? Advice.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Why remove the sponsons Zedsdead? They're very good on Shadowswords.

They are ok... The las cannons become sort of overkill because your 2 volcano guns should be removing 1-2 big threats a turn. The las cannons I struggle to find worthwhile targets after turn 2.

Heavy bolters are good.. But you pay a premium (las cannons) to get them.

This army lacks a good screen and it really lacks board control. It needs it in ITC and Nova missions. Plus having 2 groups of units harassing his opponents and grabbing objectives is key.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Unit may often annoy me half to death, but he is the word on running multiple guard super heavies in these size point games.
Would strongly recommend heeding his? Her? Their? Advice.

Ok.. I guess I'm done here then !?

 zedsdead wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Why remove the sponsons Zedsdead? They're very good on Shadowswords.

They are ok... The las cannons become sort of overkill because your 2 volcano guns should be removing 1-2 big threats a turn. The las cannons I struggle to find worthwhile targets after turn 2.

Heavy bolters are good.. But you pay a premium (las cannons) to get them.

This army lacks a good screen and it really lacks board control. It needs it in ITC and Nova missions. Plus having 2 groups of units harassing his opponents and grabbing objectives is key.

Depending on his opponent, the superheavy tanks themselves are quite a good screen.

Defensive Gunners makes them overwatch on a 5+ if the enemy charges them, and they can never be locked in combat so the enemy is forced to endure that 5+ overwatch multiple times. Then, the machine hits back in CC quite hard with 9 StR9 AP-2 Dd3 attacks. Then, it can either fall back and shoot, or even better, stay in combat and shoot. It doesn't particularly care what's fighting it.

The only time I've seen Baneblades absolutely require screens is if you're only bringing 1 or 2, because there exists in most armies enough deep-striking plasma/melta/obliterators/whatever to kill 1, but not 3.

Lastly - the issue with the sponsons is actually why I say Shadowswords are overspecialized. The Volcano Cannon overlaps too much with the Lascannons. Even so, it's exactly this specialization that means you need those 30 heavy bolter shots - there's no other way to get 30 shots on such a durable platform that gives no gaks about close combat and never suffers the -1 for moving.

Buy an infantry squad. You are really, really short on screeners and a good rush is going to be a problem attrition-wise.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Depending on his opponent, the superheavy tanks themselves are quite a good screen.

Defensive Gunners makes them overwatch on a 5+ if the enemy charges them, and they can never be locked in combat so the enemy is forced to endure that 5+ overwatch multiple times. Then, the machine hits back in CC quite hard with 9 StR9 AP-2 Dd3 attacks. Then, it can either fall back and shoot, or even better, stay in combat and shoot. It doesn't particularly care what's fighting it.

The only time I've seen Baneblades absolutely require screens is if you're only bringing 1 or 2, because there exists in most armies enough deep-striking plasma/melta/obliterators/whatever to kill 1, but not 3.

Lastly - the issue with the sponsons is actually why I say Shadowswords are overspecialized. The Volcano Cannon overlaps too much with the Lascannons. Even so, it's exactly this specialization that means you need those 30 heavy bolter shots - there's no other way to get 30 shots on such a durable platform that gives no gaks about close combat and never suffers the -1 for moving.

So just out of curiosity, what would be your optimum three Baneblade chassis to take in a Super Heavy Detachment if you are likely NOT going to be facing much Titanic?

I won't disagree with you that shadowswords are over specialized. They are. But when you need them. They never let you down. I could also suggest going 1 Shadowsword and 1 banehammer. The banehammer is,great at halving movement of a unit and preventing advance.

What's lacking in the list is board control. So I suggest getting more units to do that. Catachen units make a great assault unit when buffed. You can pull your screen if needed. And some deployments allow very little room to retriet from combat. And it only takes 2 models positioned properly to lock in a baneblade.

My suggestion is to make the list more than one dimensional which can easily happen when we run these big units.

Units to take out big guys..check
Units that are pretty good when buffed in assault..check
Units that counter psykers and can spam unsalable smite..check
Units that fire out of range well.. Check
Units that give decent board control.. Check


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 exliontamer wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Depending on his opponent, the superheavy tanks themselves are quite a good screen.

Defensive Gunners makes them overwatch on a 5+ if the enemy charges them, and they can never be locked in combat so the enemy is forced to endure that 5+ overwatch multiple times. Then, the machine hits back in CC quite hard with 9 StR9 AP-2 Dd3 attacks. Then, it can either fall back and shoot, or even better, stay in combat and shoot. It doesn't particularly care what's fighting it.

The only time I've seen Baneblades absolutely require screens is if you're only bringing 1 or 2, because there exists in most armies enough deep-striking plasma/melta/obliterators/whatever to kill 1, but not 3.

Lastly - the issue with the sponsons is actually why I say Shadowswords are overspecialized. The Volcano Cannon overlaps too much with the Lascannons. Even so, it's exactly this specialization that means you need those 30 heavy bolter shots - there's no other way to get 30 shots on such a durable platform that gives no gaks about close combat and never suffers the -1 for moving.

So just out of curiosity, what would be your optimum three Baneblade chassis to take in a Super Heavy Detachment if you are likely NOT going to be facing much Titanic?

2 banehammers and a shadowsword

 exliontamer wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Depending on his opponent, the superheavy tanks themselves are quite a good screen.

Defensive Gunners makes them overwatch on a 5+ if the enemy charges them, and they can never be locked in combat so the enemy is forced to endure that 5+ overwatch multiple times. Then, the machine hits back in CC quite hard with 9 StR9 AP-2 Dd3 attacks. Then, it can either fall back and shoot, or even better, stay in combat and shoot. It doesn't particularly care what's fighting it.

The only time I've seen Baneblades absolutely require screens is if you're only bringing 1 or 2, because there exists in most armies enough deep-striking plasma/melta/obliterators/whatever to kill 1, but not 3.

Lastly - the issue with the sponsons is actually why I say Shadowswords are overspecialized. The Volcano Cannon overlaps too much with the Lascannons. Even so, it's exactly this specialization that means you need those 30 heavy bolter shots - there's no other way to get 30 shots on such a durable platform that gives no gaks about close combat and never suffers the -1 for moving.

So just out of curiosity, what would be your optimum three Baneblade chassis to take in a Super Heavy Detachment if you are likely NOT going to be facing much Titanic?

Well, if I do know what I'm facing, I would adjust accordingly. It also depends if you run the Steel Behemoth from the FW superheavies as matching the Codex steel behemoth or if you use RAW.

The Stormhammer and Baneblade are both very good all-rounders.

The Hellhammer is way too expensive compared to the very similar Stormsword; the Stormsword is considerably worse, but also considerably cheaper.

The Banehammer is very very good against fast units, and very very bad against units that don't care so much about moving.

If I had my 'druthers, I'd probably run a mixed company of 1 Banehammer with max sponsons, just in case the enemy has any fast moving units I need to worry about (and because it's cheap), and two Stormhammers kitted out with 4 heavy bolters, 4 lascannons, and of course the main gun and twin battle cannon, or 2 Baneblades/Stormswords (these only to save points) if you don't use the Codex steel behemoth rule for Forge World units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fun fact: against Toughness 7 vehicles with a 3+ save and 10 wounds, a Catachan Baneblade and a Catachan Shadowsword are essentially equally likely to one-shot it with their Main Armament alone, but the baneblade has more secondaries and the gun is better against hordes.

So the auto-default to shadowsword as the best superheavy always confused me.