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2017/12/10 04:37:14
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I have been out of the game for a bit having sold basically everything i had. But recently figured id take a look at what was going on.
What happened that has taken the cost of units such as the eldar revenant titan changing it from half an army but can still support it to now your entire force. The same happened sith the vampire hunter as well. Does Gw not intend for these models ever to be used did they get massive poeer buffs to componsete for more than doubling in points?
I know not everyone liked the idea of these models in games but the current point cost just seems obscene, they didnt feel overly strong based on the imperoal armour rules. Am i just confused or where these units nerfed out of the game?
Also im not sure if power level is still a thing but a phantom at 140 vs a revenant at 60 and yet a phantom is less than 400 points more but twice as good?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/10 04:46:33
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2017/12/10 05:36:54
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Water-Caste Negotiator
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With regards to your general question about superheavies, I think the general thought among the community (forgive me if I am wrong, I do not intend to speak for anybody but myself) is that GW intends for most (but not all) superheavies and LoWs to be limited to Apocalypse games only. Since CA defines Apoc as an Open Play gametype, the points values of various models does not matter as Open Play is not intended to use points. So, GW drastically increased the price of many LoWs in order to make it impossible to take them at the standard point level of play (IE, 2000 and below). Perhaps a rather heavy-handed way of achieving this goal, but it accomplished what GW wanted; keep the majority of LoWs out of matched play, limited mostly to Open Play Apoc, while allowing "acceptable" LoWs to still be taken in matched play.
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Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,500 points (3,200 points fully painted)
Genestealer Cult 1228 points
849 points/ 15 SWC |
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2017/12/10 07:44:06
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Many of the superheavies are now priced right out of the game. Four shadows words are more than a match for a single Warhound.
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2017/12/10 08:00:47
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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cuda1179 wrote:Many of the superheavies are now priced right out of the game. Four shadows words are more than a match for a single Warhound.
Yeah, that's the problem. They did this to a number of super heavies, but not to the ones that were being most abused, like the Shadowswords. I had thoughts on using an army with my Fellblade, but now it's pointless. Especially when I can put that 750 point model on the table, and have a model 300 points cheaper destroy it in a single shot.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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2017/12/10 10:37:12
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Lord of the Fleet
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GI_Redshirt wrote:With regards to your general question about superheavies, I think the general thought among the community (forgive me if I am wrong, I do not intend to speak for anybody but myself) is that GW intends for most (but not all) superheavies and LoWs to be limited to Apocalypse games only. Since CA defines Apoc as an Open Play gametype, the points values of various models does not matter as Open Play is not intended to use points. So, GW drastically increased the price of many LoWs in order to make it impossible to take them at the standard point level of play (IE, 2000 and below). Perhaps a rather heavy-handed way of achieving this goal, but it accomplished what GW wanted; keep the majority of LoWs out of matched play, limited mostly to Open Play Apoc, while allowing "acceptable" LoWs to still be taken in matched play.
I don't think this had anything to do with an actual strategy from GW - the GW superheavies didn't get big price hikes.
This was classic FW updating where everything that might be good gets massively over-nerfed. They've done this many times before.
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2017/12/10 11:33:38
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Torch-Wielding Lunatic
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Most of the tanks these days have had a price hike. I does seem that they are being shuffled into Apoc games.
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The only reality that matters is mine. |
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2017/12/10 11:45:26
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Lethal Lhamean
Birmingham
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Scott-S6 wrote: GI_Redshirt wrote:With regards to your general question about superheavies, I think the general thought among the community (forgive me if I am wrong, I do not intend to speak for anybody but myself) is that GW intends for most (but not all) superheavies and LoWs to be limited to Apocalypse games only. Since CA defines Apoc as an Open Play gametype, the points values of various models does not matter as Open Play is not intended to use points. So, GW drastically increased the price of many LoWs in order to make it impossible to take them at the standard point level of play (IE, 2000 and below). Perhaps a rather heavy-handed way of achieving this goal, but it accomplished what GW wanted; keep the majority of LoWs out of matched play, limited mostly to Open Play Apoc, while allowing "acceptable" LoWs to still be taken in matched play.
I don't think this had anything to do with an actual strategy from GW - the GW superheavies didn't get big price hikes.
This was classic FW updating where everything that might be good gets massively over-nerfed. They've done this many times before.
Except it wasn't, because Forgeworld probably had nothing to do with it. CA was handled by GW's main studio, which means they deliberatly went through all the FW stuff and upped the cost of them, substantially in many cases, whilst not much in a few others (the Scorpion only went up by 50pts to 700 and the Cobra not at all).
I wouldn't be surprised if the intent really was to limit these units to Apoc, quite a few of them really shouldn't be seen on the table in a 2K game to begin with. The problem with all of this however is that people still use points for Apoc games, which basically means this will kill Apoc before it even gets started this edition.
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2017/12/10 12:21:58
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Lord of the Fleet
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Imateria wrote: Scott-S6 wrote: GI_Redshirt wrote:With regards to your general question about superheavies, I think the general thought among the community (forgive me if I am wrong, I do not intend to speak for anybody but myself) is that GW intends for most (but not all) superheavies and LoWs to be limited to Apocalypse games only. Since CA defines Apoc as an Open Play gametype, the points values of various models does not matter as Open Play is not intended to use points. So, GW drastically increased the price of many LoWs in order to make it impossible to take them at the standard point level of play (IE, 2000 and below). Perhaps a rather heavy-handed way of achieving this goal, but it accomplished what GW wanted; keep the majority of LoWs out of matched play, limited mostly to Open Play Apoc, while allowing "acceptable" LoWs to still be taken in matched play.
I don't think this had anything to do with an actual strategy from GW - the GW superheavies didn't get big price hikes.
This was classic FW updating where everything that might be good gets massively over-nerfed. They've done this many times before.
Except it wasn't, because Forgeworld probably had nothing to do with it. CA was handled by GW's main studio
We have no idea if the FW points increases were devised by the FW or GW teams.
The lack of consistency between the FW and GW superheavies suggests to me that the FW team were responsible for repointing the FW models. It also fits their usual pattern of over-reaction and we see this on a whole bunch of non-superheavy FW units that were a bit too good so they had their points increased to uselessness.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Imateria wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the intent really was to limit these units to Apoc, quite a few of them really shouldn't be seen on the table in a 2K game to begin with. The problem with all of this however is that people still use points for Apoc games, which basically means this will kill Apoc before it even gets started this edition.
Why would the GW team decide that FW superheavies should be apoc only but GW superheavies are just fine?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/10 12:26:22
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2017/12/10 13:13:06
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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Maybe because of the massive additional effort it takes to balance all those FW super-heavies. The GW super-heavies (now called "Titanic") models are part of their respective codices and thus probably part of codex development - with no regard to the quality of that development.
They most likely want to prevent FW from wrecking matched play (again) with some poorly though-out rules for their newest imperial pile of guns. Basically FW should be about buying cool models additional models to your army, not pay-to-win for tournament players.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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2017/12/10 13:35:13
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Imateria wrote: Scott-S6 wrote: GI_Redshirt wrote:With regards to your general question about superheavies, I think the general thought among the community (forgive me if I am wrong, I do not intend to speak for anybody but myself) is that GW intends for most (but not all) superheavies and LoWs to be limited to Apocalypse games only. Since CA defines Apoc as an Open Play gametype, the points values of various models does not matter as Open Play is not intended to use points. So, GW drastically increased the price of many LoWs in order to make it impossible to take them at the standard point level of play (IE, 2000 and below). Perhaps a rather heavy-handed way of achieving this goal, but it accomplished what GW wanted; keep the majority of LoWs out of matched play, limited mostly to Open Play Apoc, while allowing "acceptable" LoWs to still be taken in matched play.
I don't think this had anything to do with an actual strategy from GW - the GW superheavies didn't get big price hikes.
This was classic FW updating where everything that might be good gets massively over-nerfed. They've done this many times before.
Except it wasn't, because Forgeworld probably had nothing to do with it. CA was handled by GW's main studio, which means they deliberatly went through all the FW stuff and upped the cost of them, substantially in many cases, whilst not much in a few others (the Scorpion only went up by 50pts to 700 and the Cobra not at all).
I wouldn't be surprised if the intent really was to limit these units to Apoc, quite a few of them really shouldn't be seen on the table in a 2K game to begin with. The problem with all of this however is that people still use points for Apoc games, which basically means this will kill Apoc before it even gets started this edition.
If you're already house-ruling Apocalypse to use points, why not also house rule different points values in those games?
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2017/12/10 13:46:52
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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To me the points nerf seemed very intentional - aiming to push all of these units into power-level (read: likely Narrative/Open War) games...because the power level didn't change. So your power level titan is now 1/3rd the cost it would be to take in a matched play tournament.
However, I will say...outside of tournaments, if you and your friends think the original points were fair? Run it with those points. GW didn't stop you from using models, you just can't take them to a tournament anymore.
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2017/12/10 15:15:19
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Pious Palatine
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Jidmah wrote:Maybe because of the massive additional effort it takes to balance all those FW super-heavies. The GW super-heavies (now called "Titanic") models are part of their respective codices and thus probably part of codex development - with no regard to the quality of that development.
They most likely want to prevent FW from wrecking matched play (again) with some poorly though-out rules for their newest imperial pile of guns. Basically FW should be about buying cool models additional models to your army, not pay-to-win for tournament players.
It is really really hard to feel actually bad about what is a blatant over-nerf when the original FW indices managed to ALL take VERY deserved space at the top of the 'worst books ever produced by either GW or FW' list.
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2017/12/10 15:18:38
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
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Aetous'Rau'Keres, or however you spell his name. Never going to see him outside of apoc again with the points increases.
Shame. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dammit, you're talking superheavies not LoW. Doh!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 15:21:08
Please note, for those of you who play Chaos Daemons as a faction the term "Daemon" is potentially offensive. Instead, please play codex "Chaos: Mortally Challenged". Thank you. |
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2017/12/10 22:03:45
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Titanicus wrote:I have been out of the game for a bit having sold basically everything i had. But recently figured id take a look at what was going on.
What happened that has taken the cost of units such as the eldar revenant titan changing it from half an army but can still support it to now your entire force. The same happened sith the vampire hunter as well. Does Gw not intend for these models ever to be used did they get massive poeer buffs to componsete for more than doubling in points?
I know not everyone liked the idea of these models in games but the current point cost just seems obscene, they didnt feel overly strong based on the imperoal armour rules. Am i just confused or where these units nerfed out of the game?
Also im not sure if power level is still a thing but a phantom at 140 vs a revenant at 60 and yet a phantom is less than 400 points more but twice as good?
Simple. Resin is more expensive than plastic per kg AND what's worse unlike very automated plastic it's very manpower intensive product. This means profit margin per model is much smaller than plastic where you can put mold to machine and set it make 1000 copies. Resin meanwhile requires human input for casting.
So for GW 100ÂŁ spent on plastic is MUCH more preferable than 100ÂŁ spent on resin. If GW would be able they would LOVE to sell just plastic but they know there are people who are more of collectors than gamers so won't buy multiple's easily. Why buy same model more times when you are mostly collecting and painting? So they can sell small numbers of models to those, maybe odd piece to gamer but all who buy models for gaming they want to buy more profitable plastic. And what's better way to do that than to ensure resin model rules SUCK in competive sense...
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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2017/12/10 23:30:52
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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tneva82 wrote:Titanicus wrote:I have been out of the game for a bit having sold basically everything i had. But recently figured id take a look at what was going on.
What happened that has taken the cost of units such as the eldar revenant titan changing it from half an army but can still support it to now your entire force. The same happened sith the vampire hunter as well. Does Gw not intend for these models ever to be used did they get massive poeer buffs to componsete for more than doubling in points?
I know not everyone liked the idea of these models in games but the current point cost just seems obscene, they didnt feel overly strong based on the imperoal armour rules. Am i just confused or where these units nerfed out of the game?
Also im not sure if power level is still a thing but a phantom at 140 vs a revenant at 60 and yet a phantom is less than 400 points more but twice as good?
Simple. Resin is more expensive than plastic per kg AND what's worse unlike very automated plastic it's very manpower intensive product. This means profit margin per model is much smaller than plastic where you can put mold to machine and set it make 1000 copies. Resin meanwhile requires human input for casting.
So for GW 100ÂŁ spent on plastic is MUCH more preferable than 100ÂŁ spent on resin. If GW would be able they would LOVE to sell just plastic but they know there are people who are more of collectors than gamers so won't buy multiple's easily. Why buy same model more times when you are mostly collecting and painting? So they can sell small numbers of models to those, maybe odd piece to gamer but all who buy models for gaming they want to buy more profitable plastic. And what's better way to do that than to ensure resin model rules SUCK in competive sense...
Hahahahahahahahahahaha....ooohhhhhh that's hilarious. yes, obviously, GW is making this choice for monetary gain.
Forgeworld stuff has been one of the few gigantic blemishes on 40k's competitive scene, which GW is trying to encourage. They obviously can't trust the FW rules team, so they left the Power Level alone, but priced them out of tournaments, because let's face it, a 2000 point tournament list that features 1500 points of just a superheavy has always been lame. "oh, he took a phantom titan and put him on a landing pad to abuse the way their rules interact and won through tabling - how skillful!"
They're for Narrative and Open Play games, and they've never worked in a healthy way in normal pickup games at 1.5-2k, and they've never worked in a healthy way for tournaments.
Forgeworld's rules required three pages of FAQs to be functional and even then they're pretty much nonsense. I'm glad they're nerfed out of competitive play. Good riddance, Shadow Spectres and Malefic Lord garbage.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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2017/12/10 23:45:44
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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the_scotsman wrote:
Hahahahahahahahahahaha....ooohhhhhh that's hilarious. yes, obviously, GW is making this choice for monetary gain.
Forgeworld stuff has been one of the few gigantic blemishes on 40k's competitive scene, which GW is trying to encourage. They obviously can't trust the FW rules team, so they left the Power Level alone, but priced them out of tournaments, because let's face it, a 2000 point tournament list that features 1500 points of just a superheavy has always been lame. "oh, he took a phantom titan and put him on a landing pad to abuse the way their rules interact and won through tabling - how skillful!"
They're for Narrative and Open Play games, and they've never worked in a healthy way in normal pickup games at 1.5-2k, and they've never worked in a healthy way for tournaments.
Forgeworld's rules required three pages of FAQs to be functional and even then they're pretty much nonsense. I'm glad they're nerfed out of competitive play. Good riddance, Shadow Spectres and Malefic Lord garbage.
This is the impression I get also: That GW's main studio is fed up with the half-assed rules coming out of FW. But if true it is a pretty lame reaction from GW. Nothing stops GW from just letting their main studio take over the rules publication for both GWs and FWs model ranges. Ultimately it is GWs sole responsibility that FW was allowed to release these awful and bug-ridden abominations that was the IA indexes.
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2017/12/11 00:03:18
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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The fact that many of the units that got insane price increases weren't even overpowered (and weren't even seen in competitive) makes the argument that this was done because FW was breaking the competitive scene laughable.
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2017/12/11 02:09:17
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Speed Drybrushing
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The point hike was because everyone was complaining in 7th edition about how they hated the encroachment of super-heavies into normal games and they should be confined to Apocalypse games. GW listened to the community and found a way to restrict their use in normal points games but allow them in open play Apocalypse games and people still complain
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Not a GW apologist |
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2017/12/11 02:15:50
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Rolsheen wrote:The point hike was because everyone was complaining in 7th edition about how they hated the encroachment of super-heavies into normal games and they should be confined to Apocalypse games. GW listened to the community and found a way to restrict their use in normal points games but allow them in open play Apocalypse games and people still complain
...because Baneblades/Shadowswords, Imperial Knights, Wraithknights, Lords of Skulls, Stormsurges and Daemon Primarchs - the plastic kits that are the ones normalising super heavy units into regular games and were the actual source of complaints - are completely unaffected by this. Whereas the rare, overpriced ($$$ and points) and PITA-to-build ForgeWorld equivalents that haven’t caused any problems of note in a competitive environment got nuked from orbit.
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2017/12/11 02:18:46
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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I thought it was clearly because GW figured they cannot actually balance the Forgeworld stuff, possibly because their rules are Forgeworld's domain, so they just made them unviable for use in normal 40k games, but still to where you can use then in Open/Narrative or at very high points levels. It just removes them entirely from tournament lists.
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- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame |
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2017/12/11 03:10:17
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Wayniac wrote:I thought it was clearly because GW figured they cannot actually balance the Forgeworld stuff, possibly because their rules are Forgeworld's domain, so they just made them unviable for use in normal 40k games, but still to where you can use then in Open/Narrative or at very high points levels. It just removes them entirely from tournament lists.
Which ones were actually IN tourney lists before?
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2017/12/11 04:12:32
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Clousseau
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Wayniac wrote:I thought it was clearly because GW figured they cannot actually balance the Forgeworld stuff, possibly because their rules are Forgeworld's domain, so they just made them unviable for use in normal 40k games, but still to where you can use then in Open/Narrative or at very high points levels. It just removes them entirely from tournament lists.
Except the thunderhawk actually went down right?
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Galas wrote:I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote:He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic. |
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2017/12/11 04:39:34
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Norn Queen
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GI_Redshirt wrote:Since CA defines Apoc as an Open Play gametype, the points values of various models does not matter as Open Play is not intended to use points. So, GW drastically increased the price of many LoWs in order to make it impossible to take them at the standard point level of play (IE, 2000 and below). Perhaps a rather heavy-handed way of achieving this goal, but it accomplished what GW wanted; keep the majority of LoWs out of matched play, limited mostly to Open Play Apoc, while allowing "acceptable" LoWs to still be taken in matched play.
Open play is intended to use whatever you want. Including points and all the rules of matched if you feel like it. Very specifically open is anything goes. ANYTHING.
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These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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2017/12/11 18:44:10
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Death-Dealing Devastator
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Every single FW model I own or use went up, some by a bit, some by a lot. And seeing as how fellblades and mastodons haven't exactly been running roughshed over the tabletop (they've certainly been handy for my local meta, but mostly because I'm one of two people to field that kind of stuff, and I've brought them maybe three times in 6 months, so they're rare sights people haven't figured out how to counter, not because they're just that good), I'm just a tad irked over how hard it is to field them now. Though I can least still use them in a 2k list, which is more than I can say for some models. I'm of two minds of that. One the one hand, the few times I've brought them it generated a lot of whining from other players. On the other hand, I get lots of whining from other players when I don't bring them, so it, I'll bring what I want if they're going to complain no matter what.
the_scotsman wrote:Hahahahahahahahahahaha....ooohhhhhh that's hilarious. yes, obviously, GW is making this choice for monetary gain.
Forgeworld stuff has been one of the few gigantic blemishes on 40k's competitive scene, which GW is trying to encourage. They obviously can't trust the FW rules team, so they left the Power Level alone, but priced them out of tournaments, because let's face it, a 2000 point tournament list that features 1500 points of just a superheavy has always been lame. "oh, he took a phantom titan and put him on a landing pad to abuse the way their rules interact and won through tabling - how skillful!"
They're for Narrative and Open Play games, and they've never worked in a healthy way in normal pickup games at 1.5-2k, and they've never worked in a healthy way for tournaments.
Forgeworld's rules required three pages of FAQs to be functional and even then they're pretty much nonsense. I'm glad they're nerfed out of competitive play. Good riddance, Shadow Spectres and Malefic Lord garbage.
Ah, yes. the old "this professional game studio doesn't know how to do their job" excuse. Because of course, GW has never released broken models or had to release piles of FAQs to fix stupid stuff that ended up in the game, right? It was only FW doing that.
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2017/12/11 19:01:20
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Lethal Lhamean
Birmingham
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Asmodai wrote: Imateria wrote: Scott-S6 wrote: GI_Redshirt wrote:With regards to your general question about superheavies, I think the general thought among the community (forgive me if I am wrong, I do not intend to speak for anybody but myself) is that GW intends for most (but not all) superheavies and LoWs to be limited to Apocalypse games only. Since CA defines Apoc as an Open Play gametype, the points values of various models does not matter as Open Play is not intended to use points. So, GW drastically increased the price of many LoWs in order to make it impossible to take them at the standard point level of play (IE, 2000 and below). Perhaps a rather heavy-handed way of achieving this goal, but it accomplished what GW wanted; keep the majority of LoWs out of matched play, limited mostly to Open Play Apoc, while allowing "acceptable" LoWs to still be taken in matched play.
I don't think this had anything to do with an actual strategy from GW - the GW superheavies didn't get big price hikes.
This was classic FW updating where everything that might be good gets massively over-nerfed. They've done this many times before.
Except it wasn't, because Forgeworld probably had nothing to do with it. CA was handled by GW's main studio, which means they deliberatly went through all the FW stuff and upped the cost of them, substantially in many cases, whilst not much in a few others (the Scorpion only went up by 50pts to 700 and the Cobra not at all).
I wouldn't be surprised if the intent really was to limit these units to Apoc, quite a few of them really shouldn't be seen on the table in a 2K game to begin with. The problem with all of this however is that people still use points for Apoc games, which basically means this will kill Apoc before it even gets started this edition.
If you're already house-ruling Apocalypse to use points, why not also house rule different points values in those games?
I haven't played Apoc in ayear and I don't think anybody's used CA for Apocalypse yet but I have seen people use Matched Play rules for Apoc games before, which is nothing new because no one really used the Apoc book for Apoc games the last two editions, it was just standard rules with high points values.
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2017/12/11 20:25:00
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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cuda1179 wrote:Many of the superheavies are now priced right out of the game. Four shadows words are more than a match for a single Warhound.
Are you sure about that?
Show me all the games that four Shadowswords are winning. Also, it depends who gets to shoot first, doesn't it?
Two overcharged balstguns...14 * .833 * .666 * 1 * 8 = 62 wounds or 2.4 Shadowswords.
Maybe the game doesn't boil down to you shooting first with the best gun you can grab without thinking about anything else.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kombatwombat wrote:
...because Baneblades/Shadowswords, Imperial Knights, Wraithknights, Lords of Skulls, Stormsurges and Daemon Primarchs - the plastic kits that are the ones normalising super heavy units into regular games and were the actual source of complaints - are completely unaffected by this. Whereas the rare, overpriced ($$$ and points) and PITA-to-build ForgeWorld equivalents that haven’t caused any problems of note in a competitive environment got nuked from orbit.
Show me the complaints on these: Imperial Knights, Wraithknights, Lords of Skulls, Stormsurges
Also the Lord of Skulls went up in points.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/11 20:30:46
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2017/12/11 20:34:01
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
McCragge
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I am glad to see the points increased appropriately. I play in a league where several IG were bringing three SH because they could at 2000 points.
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Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. |
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2017/12/11 20:34:35
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Primark G wrote:I am glad to see the points increased appropriately. I play in a league where several IG were bringing three SH because they could at 2000 points.
Appropriately is a strong word there.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2017/12/11 20:40:38
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Primark G wrote:I am glad to see the points increased appropriately. I play in a league where several IG were bringing three SH because they could at 2000 points.
None of the Imperial Guard superheavies went up in cost, though. It's every other faction's LOW's that got a price hike.
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2017/12/11 20:44:18
Subject: Chapter Approved Changes to Super Heavies
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Arachnofiend wrote: Primark G wrote:I am glad to see the points increased appropriately. I play in a league where several IG were bringing three SH because they could at 2000 points.
None of the Imperial Guard superheavies went up in cost, though. It's every other faction's LOW's that got a price hike.
AM book was out first week of October. Do you think feedback was in and ready for the CA printing?
If the AM SH are truly a problem they'll get their point increase.
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