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Now that CA has dropped them (again) to a lower point value of 42 from 50, is this unit finally a good choice to use in comparison to Terminators? Or is it still just more viable to field regular Termies with Melee loadouts, while still being able to get guns?

A melee unit with 4" of Movement is never going to be good, unfortunately.

They require Warp Time babysitting, which is expensive and needed for other units.

They "might" be OKish in a Renegade legion... Maybe...

 Nym wrote:
A melee unit with 4" of Movement is never going to be good, unfortunately.

They require Warp Time babysitting, which is expensive and needed for other units.

They "might" be OKish in a Renegade legion... Maybe...

Always deepstrike. Always

Theoretically they could be okay in a Renegade Chapter. Adding d6" to make them a 5-10" move, while still being able to charge, is something that would go a long way for them.

Right now, in my opinion, they are still garbage.

However, they do have the Daemonic keyword, so it's possible when the Daemons codex comes out some synergy will appear that will make them more palatable.

I think some playtesting is in order.

I was using them before CA and they are brutal in combat. They're great for putting pressure on an opponent's flank and are super cheap now.

123 points is okay for them now. That's about it though.

Not particularly sold on them, mainly because of the very low speed. Yeah you can deep strike them, but as pointed out, only renegades are going to have a way to reroll that.

Warp Time on them is a waste, as you'll only gain 4" off it.

Obliterators remain the MUCH better option in my mind, since I can drop them anywhere into cover, get a solid +1 to your save, and use Cacaphony to double shoot them. Not really even stratagem bonuses for them in CC.

The nice thing about them is that they're in that weird "do I shoot anti-infantry or anti-tank weapons at them ?" zone. This benefits them to serve as a suitable distraction especially at the current points.

The biggest problem is if you're facing Orks or IG and there just is no was to DS into a good target and you have to walk them a bit.

 vaklor4 wrote:

Always deepstrike. Always

What I meant was "they're too slow even with Deepstrike".

If they fail their charge, they will *never* be able to catch up with their prey.

Another issue is that, despite needing babysitting, their small unit size means that you will often get less out of once per turn abilities like fury of khorne, warptime, and prescience than something like a terminator squad will. So most attempts at patching their mediocre initial state just end up taking away resources that would benefit other units more.

If they could be taken in larger squads they'd be more useful. Or smaller squads, then they'd at least be useful for players desperate for the CP a brigade offers.

ask your self would you get more use out of 30 cultists?

 Latro_ wrote:
ask your self would you get more use out of 30 cultists?

Without morale protection and a ton of CP? Probably not.

 Latro_ wrote:
ask your self would you get more use out of 30 cultists?

Absolutely not. You MIGHT get 4-5 damage out of 30 Cultists. You will almost guarentee 4-5 damage on a Mutilator unit.

I have fielded a squad in a Nurgle list, and they absolutely love all of the buffs that Epidemius can throw at them. With their most recent point adjustment, they also make a cheap bodyguard unit for Epidemius, with a bit more melee versatility over 15 plaguebearers.

Practically always , yes.

Even when they get to CC there is so much random involved.

Earth127 wrote:
Practically always , yes.

Even when they get to CC there is so much random involved.

To be fair, part of the selling point for them to me is the random charts. Just goofy, while still being a legit threat in CC.

They are no longer an auto-skip and can have some viability.. shame the models are pants-on-head and I'd never use them.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
They are no longer an auto-skip and can have some viability.. shame the models are pants-on-head and I'd never use them.

I plan on kitbashing a Stormfiend Vermin model set with some CSM parts

Honestly, while statted okay for close-combat...I'd still just take Obliterators. Admittedly I don't have my codex at hand to see if there is a price difference. Since each Obliterator shoots four times, it's likely better/easier to use them than risk trying to push Mutilators into combat. One thing they both have in common? Horrendous models which should be replaced.

 Elbows wrote:
Honestly, while statted okay for close-combat...I'd still just take Obliterators. Admittedly I don't have my codex at hand to see if there is a price difference. Since each Obliterator shoots four times, it's likely better/easier to use them than risk trying to push Mutilators into combat. One thing they both have in common? Horrendous models which should be replaced.

With the point drop, it's now a difference of 42 to 65. It's a PRETTY large difference now. And as a World Eaters player, they'd get +1 to attacks, and all the other melee goodies that my army brings to the table. Only reason I dont want Obliterators is because I can just use Bikers for a similar roll, for about the same cost, if not cheaper.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
They are no longer an auto-skip and can have some viability.. shame the models are pants-on-head and I'd never use them.

I plan on kitbashing a Stormfiend Vermin model set with some CSM parts

Nice one! Clever idea.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Honestly, while statted okay for close-combat...I'd still just take Obliterators. Admittedly I don't have my codex at hand to see if there is a price difference. Since each Obliterator shoots four times, it's likely better/easier to use them than risk trying to push Mutilators into combat. One thing they both have in common? Horrendous models which should be replaced.

With the point drop, it's now a difference of 42 to 65. It's a PRETTY large difference now. And as a World Eaters player, they'd get +1 to attacks, and all the other melee goodies that my army brings to the table. Only reason I dont want Obliterators is because I can just use Bikers for a similar roll, for about the same cost, if not cheaper.

Indeed. considering it's 38ppm for a CSM Terminator with combi-bolter and axe, at 42 each it definitely makes them a viable distraction unit to drop behind enemy lines and shred infantry baby sitting objectives.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Honestly, while statted okay for close-combat...I'd still just take Obliterators. Admittedly I don't have my codex at hand to see if there is a price difference. Since each Obliterator shoots four times, it's likely better/easier to use them than risk trying to push Mutilators into combat. One thing they both have in common? Horrendous models which should be replaced.

With the point drop, it's now a difference of 42 to 65. It's a PRETTY large difference now. And as a World Eaters player, they'd get +1 to attacks, and all the other melee goodies that my army brings to the table. Only reason I dont want Obliterators is because I can just use Bikers for a similar roll, for about the same cost, if not cheaper.

How are Bikers performing the role of Obliterators?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Honestly, while statted okay for close-combat...I'd still just take Obliterators. Admittedly I don't have my codex at hand to see if there is a price difference. Since each Obliterator shoots four times, it's likely better/easier to use them than risk trying to push Mutilators into combat. One thing they both have in common? Horrendous models which should be replaced.

With the point drop, it's now a difference of 42 to 65. It's a PRETTY large difference now. And as a World Eaters player, they'd get +1 to attacks, and all the other melee goodies that my army brings to the table. Only reason I dont want Obliterators is because I can just use Bikers for a similar roll, for about the same cost, if not cheaper.

How are Bikers performing the role of Obliterators?

I take two MSU squads with plasma guns, and plasma combis on the commanders. Overcharged with Chaos Lord rerolls, I can knock out 6-12 plasma shots (depending if I am in rapid range yet), and an additional 12-24 combi bolter shots (again, if im in range.)
I mathhammered it, and it's more points but more reliable by far.

 vaklor4 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Honestly, while statted okay for close-combat...I'd still just take Obliterators. Admittedly I don't have my codex at hand to see if there is a price difference. Since each Obliterator shoots four times, it's likely better/easier to use them than risk trying to push Mutilators into combat. One thing they both have in common? Horrendous models which should be replaced.

With the point drop, it's now a difference of 42 to 65. It's a PRETTY large difference now. And as a World Eaters player, they'd get +1 to attacks, and all the other melee goodies that my army brings to the table. Only reason I dont want Obliterators is because I can just use Bikers for a similar roll, for about the same cost, if not cheaper.

How are Bikers performing the role of Obliterators?

I take two MSU squads with plasma guns, and plasma combis on the commanders. Overcharged with Chaos Lord rerolls, I can knock out 6-12 plasma shots (depending if I am in rapid range yet), and an additional 12-24 combi bolter shots (again, if im in range.)
I mathhammered it, and it's more points but more reliable by far.

That's significantly more points and super vulnerable compared to the Obliterators who can deep Strike safely.

I'm a notorious mutilator protectionist. Had some success with them in 7-th. They seem much better in 8-th.

 vaklor4 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Honestly, while statted okay for close-combat...I'd still just take Obliterators. Admittedly I don't have my codex at hand to see if there is a price difference. Since each Obliterator shoots four times, it's likely better/easier to use them than risk trying to push Mutilators into combat. One thing they both have in common? Horrendous models which should be replaced.

With the point drop, it's now a difference of 42 to 65. It's a PRETTY large difference now. And as a World Eaters player, they'd get +1 to attacks, and all the other melee goodies that my army brings to the table. Only reason I dont want Obliterators is because I can just use Bikers for a similar roll, for about the same cost, if not cheaper.

How are Bikers performing the role of Obliterators?

I take two MSU squads with plasma guns, and plasma combis on the commanders. Overcharged with Chaos Lord rerolls, I can knock out 6-12 plasma shots (depending if I am in rapid range yet), and an additional 12-24 combi bolter shots (again, if im in range.)
I mathhammered it, and it's more points but more reliable by far.

If you shoot both profiles don't you end up burning your men with overcharge?

Spoletta wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Honestly, while statted okay for close-combat...I'd still just take Obliterators. Admittedly I don't have my codex at hand to see if there is a price difference. Since each Obliterator shoots four times, it's likely better/easier to use them than risk trying to push Mutilators into combat. One thing they both have in common? Horrendous models which should be replaced.

With the point drop, it's now a difference of 42 to 65. It's a PRETTY large difference now. And as a World Eaters player, they'd get +1 to attacks, and all the other melee goodies that my army brings to the table. Only reason I dont want Obliterators is because I can just use Bikers for a similar roll, for about the same cost, if not cheaper.

How are Bikers performing the role of Obliterators?

I take two MSU squads with plasma guns, and plasma combis on the commanders. Overcharged with Chaos Lord rerolls, I can knock out 6-12 plasma shots (depending if I am in rapid range yet), and an additional 12-24 combi bolter shots (again, if im in range.)
I mathhammered it, and it's more points but more reliable by far.

If you shoot both profiles don't you end up burning your men with overcharge?

You only shoot the plasma side, the Captains have to take a combi, they can't just take a plasma.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Now that CA has dropped them (again) to a lower point value of 42 from 50, is this unit finally a good choice to use in comparison to Terminators? Or is it still just more viable to field regular Termies with Melee loadouts, while still being able to get guns?

The issue with comparing them to Terminators is that both units are still bad. They need to be significantly better than TH/SS terms in order to see any play because why do chaos need them? They have Berserkers, magnus, mortarion, cultist spam for CC. 8th is a game of shooting so a unit that does absolutely 0 shooting, is super slow AND is expensive is a door stop at best.