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Tyranids "The Enemy Below" - Usable with non-Jorg Tunnelers?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Slave on the Slave Snares




Ontario, Canada

This has become a point of contention on another thread so I wanted to post it here to get a more public opinion.

"The Enemy Below" Tyranid Stratagem states: "Use when JORMUNGANDR INFANTRY set up, put it underground. Whenever you deploy a Ravener, Mawloc, Trygon or Trygon Prime from underground, any of those units can deep strike within 3"

It specifies that a JORMUNGANDR INFANTRY must use the Stratagem, however does not specify any HIVE FLEET for the Ravener, Mawloc, Trygon or Trygon Prime.

The wide understanding of this for myself and any of the people I have played against and showed the wording/ruling on the Stratagem have agreed as long as the INFANTRY using the tunnel are from JORMUNGANDR, they can use any tunnel from a different HIVE FLEET.

RAW I feel it's fairly clear. But did GW intend for it to mean only usable with Jorg Tunnelers? Maybe....but I don't think so. If you look at other Stratagems, say "Endless Swarm", it says it can be used with Gaunts and specifically calls out "If HYDRA it can be used with INFANTRY as well". It's a similar call out that I feel they would have done with The Enemy Below if that was the intention.

Obviously could be a classic GW oversight, but what does everyone else think?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Anacortes

jormungandr stratagem , not to be used with other hive fleets.


In a dog eat dog be a cat. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Jormangundr only. Don't see how that's even contentious!

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Kailsen wrote:
This has become a point of contention on another thread so I wanted to post it here to get a more public opinion.

"The Enemy Below" Tyranid Stratagem states: "Use when JORMUNGANDR INFANTRY set up, put it underground. Whenever you deploy a Ravener, Mawloc, Trygon or Trygon Prime from underground, any of those units can deep strike within 3"

It specifies that a JORMUNGANDR INFANTRY must use the Stratagem, however does not specify any HIVE FLEET for the Ravener, Mawloc, Trygon or Trygon Prime.

The wide understanding of this for myself and any of the people I have played against and showed the wording/ruling on the Stratagem have agreed as long as the INFANTRY using the tunnel are from JORMUNGANDR, they can use any tunnel from a different HIVE FLEET.

RAW I feel it's fairly clear. But did GW intend for it to mean only usable with Jorg Tunnelers? Maybe....but I don't think so. If you look at other Stratagems, say "Endless Swarm", it says it can be used with Gaunts and specifically calls out "If HYDRA it can be used with INFANTRY as well". It's a similar call out that I feel they would have done with The Enemy Below if that was the intention.

Obviously could be a classic GW oversight, but what does everyone else think?
You have it right. It can trigger off any Ravener etc. If you have two detachments, you can use another Hive Fleet's big bug to bring in the Jorm infantry.

Obviously you'll need to have a detachment of both JORMUNGANDR and another <HIVE FLEET>.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/13 16:34:38


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Reading strictly the rules as they are written the only unit that is required to be Jormungandr is the infantry unit that is using the tunnel. The Raveners, Mawloc, Trygon, or Prime can be from any hive fleet. There is no specification or requirement that the triggering model be from a specific hive fleet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/13 16:36:51


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Lungpickle wrote:
jormungandr stratagem , not to be used with other hive fleets.
Such a convincing argument. Can you please show me the evidence you have for such a bold and definitive statement?
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




The hive fleet keyword requirements are only on the unit being set up underground. You're good to go RAW as soon as any of the named tunnelers come in.
   
Made in de
Witch Hunter in the Shadows



Aachen

Yeah, you're doing it right. I don't think it's an oversight, as it's the jorm unit that does the extra activity and uses the other guys tunnels.
Fluff wise having two hive fleets fighting on the same battlefield as allies isn't that great to begin with, but it's clearly allowed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/14 14:28:03


 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

So you could patrol in a Jorm unit and use the stratagem. I don't see the problem with this. It doesn't specify the tunnel must be Jorm.

Does it say "deep strike" within 3"? I don't have codex in front of me. I doubt the wording is that loose, because deep strike within 3" is totally and completely different from "wholly within 3"."

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
 
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